I need to get some of this coolant you're on. Might increase my lap times by 10 seconds too? (kidding)

Seriously, if you've been racing for 10+ years and use coolant instead of distilled water / water wetter in your track car, you scare the hell out of me.

Gary Jenkins and Mike Lee both have stated what are the facts so its pointless me re-iterating. Although the boiling point is raised with coolant, heat transfer is NOT nearly as efficient as distilled water & water wetter. Especially at a 50 Coolant / 50 H20 ratio. Wow.

 

LOL! Sorry noob, the article is proof enough.

 

I was going to drop it but you are just being rude and that really isn't needed.

The 'proof' I see in the linked article is that glycol raises the boiling point of water and therefore will provide better cooling than boiling water. What is missing in the linked article is any reference to the heat transfer capacity of water and glycol based coolant.

The article I linked as well as every single reliable source will show that the heat transfer capability of NON-BOILING water is greater (significantly) than that of glycol based coolant. No one in their right mind would assert that boiling water (steam) cools better than glycol.

Therefore while at extreme temperatures that would cause water to boil (250 degrees per the linked article) gycol coolant will perform better, what it is physically unable to do is cool better at normal track operating temperatures. Water (I also always use an additive such as Water Wetter) transfers more heat faster both from the engine to the water and then the water to the radiator than coolant is able (due to the physical differences in the liquids). One cannot avoid that scientific fact.

Your complete lack of attention to the reasoned data presented shows that your ego is larger than your understanding. None of us know everything while we all know something. You happen not to know this. It would be good for you to learn as you might benefit from it in future track days. Much as I am trying to learn from you with respect to the engine seal even though it goes against with I "know".

Now stop being rude and show us any data that shows that glycol based coolant will transfer heat more efficiently than NON-BOILING water and I am sure we will all apologize for disagreeing with you. Don't tell me to read the linked article again as it doesn't address the point I am raising.

 

I have also ran distilled water/water wetter and it runs much cooler. I just haven't had time to flush out the coolant in my 07' Z yet.

The only problem I see with too much distilled water/water wetter is the car will run too cool during normal driving. Has anyone recorded coolant temps with this setup on a daily driven N/A Z? I know the stock ecu goes ballistic when it isn't in normal operating temps.

On the track though, I would choose distilled water/water wette over 50/50 anyday of the week folks.

 

I can believe you guys are going at it about freaking water?

 

"more open minded".

Please explain to me then why I saw several cars with just WATER & water wetter overheat at the track? These were newer cars too. One was a C5 Vette, the other was a WRX.

I have ran 50/50 always, and never, ever had a issue with heat. But I also use Water Wetter in that mixture as well. This includes the hot 100+ degree days and sitting in traffic idleing for long periods.

 

i think the difference in airflow whether its sucking in or allowing hot air to escape varies at speed... since the engine seals itself with the hood in the back, i'm thinking that just to have air flowing underneath there (cooler air) mixing with the hot air from the radiator would be better than nothing.

the Z has the inlet for the in-cabin filter right there (the big white hole) in my pict. it gets its air from the plastic shroud and if you look at the underside, you can see it is channeling air directly toward the opening.

Esprit has a hood design that is smooth & channeled on the underside of the hood and actually opens to atmosphere. near where back of the engine bay is with no seal..

 

As with any experiment, you would want some controls.... saying this car overheated or that car overheated with water is assuming that the water is the cause. I'd recommend doing it in the same car, same hp, timing, radiator, thermostat, ambient condtions, etc, etc. A lot of people who do aftermarket radiators go to water and overheat and assume it's the radiator when in some cases, the factory radiator was superior.....

 

How can you assume that it was that which caused them to overheat and not some other issues? Do you know their tuning? type of oil they are using? there are so many factors...

I have seen both cars which run coolant and cars which run water/ww overheat at the track. 1 of the coolant overheats dumped enough coolant for me to almost flip my car in a high speed turn.

Regardless, we are adressing the chemistry behind why water/ww is better at heat exchange than coolant.

I'm shocked that you still have the reasoning after "10+ years of racing" is purely based on seeing 2 cars overheating on water/WW.

BTW. Here was the key point in my last "noob" post.

"Although the boiling point is raised with coolant, heat transfer is NOT nearly as efficient as distilled water & water wetter."


Now that you're open minded, and this statement DOES agree with your article...do you have any other legitimate reason at all why you are saying 50/50 is better?
So the OP of this thread isnt being misled by anyone...

 

Maybe those guys had air in their cooling system, maybe their fans didn't work properly, maybe their radiators had a hole, there are too many things that could have caused the "overheating".

All I know is, in most race cars they do not run any coolant. I do think some coolant is good for newer cars because they will run too cool with just distilled water/water wetter and not get up to operating temperature.

 

Water, the building block of life.

 

we're goin at it about basic cooling issues, which involves the temperature of an engine, which might be important

 

Chebesto - Thank you for the response.

I agree with your thoughts on the speed having impact on the airflow. With my FBody (Trans Am) at lower speed the yarn would blow 'out' and be on the windshield. As speed increased it would actually go back under the hood. My theory on why this hurt cooling was that it actually limited air coming through the radiator (the air coming in from the hood is pushing against the air coming through the radiator). I could be wrong on that but I know there was an impact.

The Trans Am was a 'bottom' breather when it came to the cooling system with a 'scoop' actually pulling air from under the car behind the bumper. The high pressure created by the 'scoop' pushed air up through the radiator and the low pressure behind the 'scoop' pulled in back out of the engine bay. I've never actually looked at a Z to know the air flow path for cooling so perhaps there is a difference there that forces the air back through the hood and out the rear.

I will try it next time at the track (with the yarn ) and see what happens.

 

You are going to be fine running those temps with the Evans. It's all about controlling cylinder temps and the Evans is good to 300+ degrees (not that you want to subject your engine to continuous temps that high though!).

MDizzle> you need to try to understand what is happening to the water at the cylinder, where it's much hotter than the boiling pt. As vapor gets trapped around the cylinder wall, cylinder temps will focally sky rocket causing hot spots that can lead to detonation. No question water is superior IF you can keep water vapor and gas pockets out of the equation.

 

Ethylene Glycol (monoethylene glycol (MEG)) is an alcohol with a boiling point of 281F in pure form. Mixed 50/50 with water the boiling point of that mixture is around 225F at normal atmosphere pressure. The specific heat capacity of Ethylene Glycol is 2.972 J/g-K which is less then water (H20) at 4.186 J/g-K.

To put it more simply, pure water can absorb 29% more heat from the engine then pure Ethylene Glycol which generally requires a larger coolant capacity to equal the same cooling ability as pure water. In other words, if automotive cooling systems were designed for pure water they could have 14% less liquid capacity and still cool the same as a 50/50 mix.

The goal of an automotive cooling system is to absorb heat from the engine, carry that heat to a heat exchanger (the radiator), and release that heat into the air. Adding Ethylene Glycol to a cooling system increase the boiling point of the system but reduces its heat carrying capacity. There's a sweet spot between increasing the boiling point of the coolant and reducing its heat carrying capacity.

Racers often have no choice but to run straight water because many race tracks ban Ethylene Glycol. Spilled on asphalt its very slippery and hard to clean off. I've run straight water in all of my race cars and have also increased cooling system pressures to 28psi. It gets you the increased heat capacity of pure water and a higher boiling point.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/et...col-d_146.html

EDIT: I had to correct some numbers.

 

Your temp is too high, I suggest laying off the throttle when you approach 230F. I've read through all the jabber about coolant plus water, etc., and want to also comment that I have noticed lower track temps with distilled/deionized water plus water wetter vs coolant/water/water wetter.

 

water wetter and a lower temp thermostat helped me.

 

FYI...
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=103
Hopefully, we will see some results soon.

 

Want proof SOLO-350z ? http://www.redlineoil.com/whitePaper/17.pdf

Water cools better than 50/50 mixture.
Most DE schools and race sanctioning bodies do not allow coolant in the cars, because spilled coolant is VERY slippery and can cause crashes.

Raising the cooling system pressure to 16-20psi raises the boiling point of water to a stable amount.

Playing Gran-Turismo on the Playstation doesnt count as racing for 10 years.

 

Ahh a noob tries to correct us. Go away.