Radical SR8 or Ultima GTR?
05-23-2008, 04:08 AM
#22
Originally Posted by Feffman
DRE350:
A buddy and I are going through the same search. We are leaning toward the Radical SR3 because a number of track-day organizations insist you have an "instructor" ride along until they sign off on you. One would think the SR3 would be priced about like a Stohr or West but SR3 is nearly twice the price.
Stohr and West are lighter (around 850 pounds) and faster then a Radical SR3but SR3 has that elusive extra seating capacity. Good luck!
Mark "Feff" Pfeffer
A buddy and I are going through the same search. We are leaning toward the Radical SR3 because a number of track-day organizations insist you have an "instructor" ride along until they sign off on you. One would think the SR3 would be priced about like a Stohr or West but SR3 is nearly twice the price.
Stohr and West are lighter (around 850 pounds) and faster then a Radical SR3but SR3 has that elusive extra seating capacity. Good luck!
Mark "Feff" Pfeffer
Another option you may want to look at are the Panoz GTR World Challenge cars. They have 2 person capacity, great track ability, qualify for several racing classes and are pretty inexpensive right now. The parts are easy to get and are very durable. The same can also be said for the Toyota World Challende series, but they are single seaters.
As far as lap times, I would suspect the SR8 would be faster than the Ultima GTR (even with 700 HP) unless the track has extremely long straights. The Ultima I have driven was powered by a 450-ish aluminum 383.
Another option that seems to gaining popularity is the Westfield
Last edited by mhoward1; 05-23-2008 at 04:12 AM.
05-24-2008, 03:41 AM
#23
Dre, the questions is, do you want to spend time wrenching on the car or driving it. No matter what anyone tells you, a Radical, Stohr or Diasio will require much more regular and difficult maintanence, carrying more spare parts and will almost certainly break down more than the GTR. Fifteen cars showed up for our recent Diasio get together. About 10 were able to drive all weekend. And only 11 were able to even make it to the photo shoot, two almost missed it. Another big negative for me would be the Hewland. I'd take the Porsche G50 for a track day car over a Hewland any day of the week. I don't know how close you are to a Radical distributor in Australia, but finding someone local who can work on them can be difficult and price and time prohibitive if you have to ship the car. A worthwhile pursuit would be too look at the DNF rates of Stohrs and Radicals in SCCA club racing or in the Radical UK Cup.
I've been driving a Diasio for about two years now and its fun when it runs but sucks when you've driven 5 hours to a track and a sensor goes out and your done for the weekend. Its taken me two years of experience to assemble the amount of spare parts and knowledge required to keep the pig on the track. I don't regret making the switch to dedicated car, I just wish someone had told me how much work was involved. Most people who see this picture say cool, all I see is a parking lot full of work.
I've been driving a Diasio for about two years now and its fun when it runs but sucks when you've driven 5 hours to a track and a sensor goes out and your done for the weekend. Its taken me two years of experience to assemble the amount of spare parts and knowledge required to keep the pig on the track. I don't regret making the switch to dedicated car, I just wish someone had told me how much work was involved. Most people who see this picture say cool, all I see is a parking lot full of work.
Last edited by zillinois; 05-24-2008 at 04:16 AM.
05-25-2008, 10:44 AM
#24
G'day from a fellow Aussie 
Do you want an ultimate track day car that you can still drive around town, or do you want an all out track racer that lives on a trailer?
I've driven an older Ultima Spyder. Completely awesome! Ultima GTR has been my benchmark gotta have one day track day car that can still be driven around town for a long time.
I have also had a close look at the SR3s and an SR8 which run at our local track here in Dubai with a view to running in the local Radical series. Also completely awesome, but a serious track racing car rather than a track day car.
Don't kid yourself about the ability to road register the Radicals. You can do it but the ones I have seen are completely impractical for road driving with much lower road clearance, even less comfort and more race oriented tuning and setup causes very difficult road driving. These cars need to be flat out on a track to shine. The Ultima with a mid level V8 tune can still cruise down to the local shops for a newspaper quite comfortably, and is as quick or quicker on track than the SR3s in track races I have seen with both cars in them. Haven't seen a direct comparison on the same track, but the SR8 would probably be ultimately quicker.
The Ultima GTR has to be a better bet for Aussie roads! And mate, it's a V8!
Do you want an ultimate track day car that you can still drive around town, or do you want an all out track racer that lives on a trailer?
I've driven an older Ultima Spyder. Completely awesome! Ultima GTR has been my benchmark gotta have one day track day car that can still be driven around town for a long time.
I have also had a close look at the SR3s and an SR8 which run at our local track here in Dubai with a view to running in the local Radical series. Also completely awesome, but a serious track racing car rather than a track day car.
Don't kid yourself about the ability to road register the Radicals. You can do it but the ones I have seen are completely impractical for road driving with much lower road clearance, even less comfort and more race oriented tuning and setup causes very difficult road driving. These cars need to be flat out on a track to shine. The Ultima with a mid level V8 tune can still cruise down to the local shops for a newspaper quite comfortably, and is as quick or quicker on track than the SR3s in track races I have seen with both cars in them. Haven't seen a direct comparison on the same track, but the SR8 would probably be ultimately quicker.
The Ultima GTR has to be a better bet for Aussie roads! And mate, it's a V8!
Last edited by SteveA; 05-25-2008 at 10:46 AM.
05-25-2008, 11:38 PM
#26
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by zillinois
Dre, the questions is, do you want to spend time wrenching on the car or driving it. No matter what anyone tells you, a Radical, Stohr or Diasio will require much more regular and difficult maintanence, carrying more spare parts and will almost certainly break down more than the GTR. Fifteen cars showed up for our recent Diasio get together. About 10 were able to drive all weekend. And only 11 were able to even make it to the photo shoot, two almost missed it. Another big negative for me would be the Hewland. I'd take the Porsche G50 for a track day car over a Hewland any day of the week. I don't know how close you are to a Radical distributor in Australia, but finding someone local who can work on them can be difficult and price and time prohibitive if you have to ship the car. A worthwhile pursuit would be too look at the DNF rates of Stohrs and Radicals in SCCA club racing or in the Radical UK Cup.
I've been driving a Diasio for about two years now and its fun when it runs but sucks when you've driven 5 hours to a track and a sensor goes out and your done for the weekend. Its taken me two years of experience to assemble the amount of spare parts and knowledge required to keep the pig on the track. I don't regret making the switch to dedicated car, I just wish someone had told me how much work was involved. Most people who see this picture say cool, all I see is a parking lot full of work.
I've been driving a Diasio for about two years now and its fun when it runs but sucks when you've driven 5 hours to a track and a sensor goes out and your done for the weekend. Its taken me two years of experience to assemble the amount of spare parts and knowledge required to keep the pig on the track. I don't regret making the switch to dedicated car, I just wish someone had told me how much work was involved. Most people who see this picture say cool, all I see is a parking lot full of work.
Thanks for the insight. That's surprising, I would've bet money that my Z will require way more maintenance and be more unreliable. But at the end of the day, even after all the hassles, you haven't regretted the move. Which tells me I'm going in the right direction.
Would you go open wheeler like a Radical or would you always opt for a closed cockpit from a safety point of view?
Last edited by DRE350; 05-25-2008 at 11:43 PM.
05-25-2008, 11:41 PM
#27
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SteveA
G'day from a fellow Aussie
Do you want an ultimate track day car that you can still drive around town, or do you want an all out track racer that lives on a trailer?
I've driven an older Ultima Spyder. Completely awesome! Ultima GTR has been my benchmark gotta have one day track day car that can still be driven around town for a long time.
I have also had a close look at the SR3s and an SR8 which run at our local track here in Dubai with a view to running in the local Radical series. Also completely awesome, but a serious track racing car rather than a track day car.
Don't kid yourself about the ability to road register the Radicals. You can do it but the ones I have seen are completely impractical for road driving with much lower road clearance, even less comfort and more race oriented tuning and setup causes very difficult road driving. These cars need to be flat out on a track to shine. The Ultima with a mid level V8 tune can still cruise down to the local shops for a newspaper quite comfortably, and is as quick or quicker on track than the SR3s in track races I have seen with both cars in them. Haven't seen a direct comparison on the same track, but the SR8 would probably be ultimately quicker.
The Ultima GTR has to be a better bet for Aussie roads! And mate, it's a V8!
Do you want an ultimate track day car that you can still drive around town, or do you want an all out track racer that lives on a trailer?
I've driven an older Ultima Spyder. Completely awesome! Ultima GTR has been my benchmark gotta have one day track day car that can still be driven around town for a long time.
I have also had a close look at the SR3s and an SR8 which run at our local track here in Dubai with a view to running in the local Radical series. Also completely awesome, but a serious track racing car rather than a track day car.
Don't kid yourself about the ability to road register the Radicals. You can do it but the ones I have seen are completely impractical for road driving with much lower road clearance, even less comfort and more race oriented tuning and setup causes very difficult road driving. These cars need to be flat out on a track to shine. The Ultima with a mid level V8 tune can still cruise down to the local shops for a newspaper quite comfortably, and is as quick or quicker on track than the SR3s in track races I have seen with both cars in them. Haven't seen a direct comparison on the same track, but the SR8 would probably be ultimately quicker.
The Ultima GTR has to be a better bet for Aussie roads! And mate, it's a V8!
05-26-2008, 06:27 AM
#28
Originally Posted by DRE350
Awesome cars!
Thanks for the insight. That's surprising, I would've bet money that my Z will require way more maintenance and be more unreliable. But at the end of the day, even after all the hassles, you haven't regretted the move. Which tells me I'm going in the right direction.
Would you go open wheeler like a Radical or would you always opt for a closed cockpit from a safety point of view?
Thanks for the insight. That's surprising, I would've bet money that my Z will require way more maintenance and be more unreliable. But at the end of the day, even after all the hassles, you haven't regretted the move. Which tells me I'm going in the right direction.
Would you go open wheeler like a Radical or would you always opt for a closed cockpit from a safety point of view?
You are making a good decision by moving to a track day car. I just wish I could use the right words to get through to you that full race cars like the Radical make impractical track day cars. Are you married and do you have kids? Do you want to spend a lot less time with them than you do now? And will they put up with it? If no family, do you have large set of tools and are you looking for something to fill your days?
- Did you know that one centerlock nut for the rims on the Radical costs £36!! £86 for the socket to put it on. Ever crossthread one? You can't go to Autozone and get that. Let alone an M35 thread cleaner to fix the axle threads. (All these prices are from UK Radical website.)
- Does your local Sydney distributor fix Hewlands or do they send it out? £6,800 for a new Hewland. Powertec is even more.
- Do you have someone that can fix fiberglass or carbon. £1,300 for an unpainted nose cone.
- Paddle shifter system malfuntion - £722 - £2,858
- The rear diffuser you just broke backing off the trailer? £746
- and the rear diffuser nut? £7.52 each!! ($14 dollars for a one off nut, really?)
- Blow the muffler - £685 (Can't just replace with something purchased local)
There are 50 ways to end your track day with a Radical that don't involve a serious malfuntion. Sorry if this seems harsh, I'm just really trying to get an idea across through the Internet and sometimes the message gets lost. My suggestion would be to expand your search. The Utima would be better car than the Radical, but there might be a better fit yet. How long have you been tracking and what kinds of cars do you like?
Last edited by zillinois; 05-26-2008 at 11:51 AM.
05-27-2008, 12:36 AM
#30
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by zillinois
I prefer the closed cockpit for safety. Especially at HPDE's, you never know the state of the cars on the track with you. There is literally nothing between you and the loose muffler of the car you are overtaking. Also, driving a car without an enclosed cockpit exposes you to the sun, exhaust gases, road debris and bugs which becomes tedious after driving for the day. Even though my car has an enclosed cockpit, I still have to spend an hour at the end of the day picking out chunks of rubber, grass and bugs from the cockpit of my car because its not well sealed and has a front vent shaft.
You are making a good decision by moving to a track day car. I just wish I could use the right words to get through to you that full race cars like the Radical make impractical track day cars. Are you married and do you have kids? Do you want to spend a lot less time with them than you do now? And will they put up with it? If no family, do you have large set of tools and are you looking for something to fill your days?
- Did you know that one centerlock nut for the rims on the Radical costs £36!! £86 for the socket to put it on. Ever crossthread one? You can't go to Autozone and get that. Let alone an M35 thread cleaner to fix the axle threads. (All these prices are from UK Radical website.)
- Does your local Sydney distributor fix Hewlands or do they send it out? £6,800 for a new Hewland. Powertec is even more.
- Do you have someone that can fix fiberglass or carbon. £1,300 for an unpainted nose cone.
- Paddle shifter system malfuntion - £722 - £2,858
- The rear diffuser you just broke backing off the trailer? £746
- and the rear diffuser nut? £7.52 each!! ($14 dollars for a one off nut, really?)
- Blow the muffler - £685 (Can't just replace with something purchased local)
There are 50 ways to end your track day with a Radical that don't involve a serious malfuntion. Sorry if this seems harsh, I'm just really trying to get an idea across through the Internet and sometimes the message gets lost. My suggestion would be to expand your search. The Utima would be better car than the Radical, but there might be a better fit yet. How long have you been tracking and what kinds of cars do you like?
You are making a good decision by moving to a track day car. I just wish I could use the right words to get through to you that full race cars like the Radical make impractical track day cars. Are you married and do you have kids? Do you want to spend a lot less time with them than you do now? And will they put up with it? If no family, do you have large set of tools and are you looking for something to fill your days?
- Did you know that one centerlock nut for the rims on the Radical costs £36!! £86 for the socket to put it on. Ever crossthread one? You can't go to Autozone and get that. Let alone an M35 thread cleaner to fix the axle threads. (All these prices are from UK Radical website.)
- Does your local Sydney distributor fix Hewlands or do they send it out? £6,800 for a new Hewland. Powertec is even more.
- Do you have someone that can fix fiberglass or carbon. £1,300 for an unpainted nose cone.
- Paddle shifter system malfuntion - £722 - £2,858
- The rear diffuser you just broke backing off the trailer? £746
- and the rear diffuser nut? £7.52 each!! ($14 dollars for a one off nut, really?)
- Blow the muffler - £685 (Can't just replace with something purchased local)
There are 50 ways to end your track day with a Radical that don't involve a serious malfuntion. Sorry if this seems harsh, I'm just really trying to get an idea across through the Internet and sometimes the message gets lost. My suggestion would be to expand your search. The Utima would be better car than the Radical, but there might be a better fit yet. How long have you been tracking and what kinds of cars do you like?
Having done what you've done, do you think it's worthwhile spending big money making the Z a race car?
05-27-2008, 03:05 AM
#31
Originally Posted by DRE350
I agree with the whole closed cockpit with regards to safety, hence why I was not 100% set on the Radical. The other cars I've been looking at are Carrera Cup Car and V8 Supercars (Aussie V8 Racing series). But speaking to people that have owned these cars, it seems that at the very least they're just as expensive as the radical to run, probably more.
Having done what you've done, do you think it's worthwhile spending big money making the Z a race car?
Having done what you've done, do you think it's worthwhile spending big money making the Z a race car?
With the Z I'd be spending $1700 on a set of tires two times a year, with the Diasio I'm spending $800 once a year.
Brake pads were around $600-$800 bucks for the Z and they lasted 5 or 6 track days. The Diasio is $160 for all four corners and they last two SEASONS. Its the car weight and wheel size that kills you. If I had to do it over again with the same budget I very likely would have and still may build my own car.
If I were to start over, I would start with the very lightest car possible like a Datsun 510 or an older Mini or BMW e30 strip it down to the shell and put a modern driveline in it. Something along the lines of the in-line 2.x liter turbo motors from an STi or EVO or Mini. (Stay away from KA or other non turbo motors)Make it widebody and develop an underbody aerodynamics setup, rear diffuser and run a high downforce wing. I'd buy full race, tuneable uprights and independent rear suspension, get custom valved shocks from Ohlin or Koni and big brake kit. Make all the body panels removable. Full cage, fire suppression, fuel cell, Lexan windows. Run no bigger than 15" rims to keep tire prices down. You could build a nice well balanced package and you could spend maybe just over half the price of an Ultima or Radical and still have it done right. I know the cars are not sexy, but hours of track time is. And while its being built you can still be tracking the Z. Good luck in your search. I know its difficult with so many choices out there.
Last edited by zillinois; 05-27-2008 at 01:39 PM.
05-29-2008, 12:36 AM
#32
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks zillinois. The build you're talking about sounds like the smart move but you're right, they're not sexy and as much as I hate to admit it that does play a part in my decision. I think what's good about buying 'concept-race cars' like the Radical, Diasio, West, etc as opposed to racecars based on road cars is that the design will last a lot longer as the model won't readily be superceded by a newer one.
05-29-2008, 06:01 PM
#33
Originally Posted by DRE350
Thanks zillinois. The build you're talking about sounds like the smart move but you're right, they're not sexy and as much as I hate to admit it that does play a part in my decision. I think what's good about buying 'concept-race cars' like the Radical, Diasio, West, etc as opposed to racecars based on road cars is that the design will last a lot longer as the model won't readily be superceded by a newer one.
I feel like there is a missing link out there in the world of track cars. Nothing really fits the bill for the average weekend hacker who wants to look cool, go fast and not sweat the maintenance. This would be my present top 10 list of prebuilt cars in no particular order. Exige S/Club Racer (+ sexy, - underpowered)
Skyline GTR (-getting dated, + still amazingly fast)
Ultima GTR (- rare, + good power, - might be looked upon as kit car)
Noble (+ Good power to weight, - good looking, - sub-exotic)
Ford GT (+ sex, -price, -consumables)
Caterham 7 (- boxy, + crazy fast)
Aerial Atom (+ cool factor, +fast, low or no support)
Factory 5 Cobra (+cool, +fast, +easy maintanence)
Westfield Busa Powered (- boxy, +fast, + Low costs)
Fusion (- utilitarian looks, +cheap to run)
05-29-2008, 06:07 PM
#34
Well, now that the ariel will have a true North American manufacturer and be supported by a Race Complex tech center, it's support should go up, and the NS price should go down.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
onecoolee
2003-2009 Nissan 350Z
12
02-18-2004 08:15 PM
