Debate: Open vs full face helmets
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From: NC
Debate: Open vs full face helmets
The article that started the debate:
"DATE: November 16, 2004
FROM: National Staff
TO: All Participants
SUBJECT: Airbag Advisory
It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use
of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag
restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys
the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a
driver’s position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver’s chin. In a
crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face
helmet can be so powerful “that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be
ruled out“ (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies
to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car
Control Clinics, etc.
Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in
vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language
is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005
issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at
(800) 770-2055."
The arguements so far:
"DATE: November 16, 2004
FROM: National Staff
TO: All Participants
SUBJECT: Airbag Advisory
It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use
of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag
restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys
the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a
driver’s position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver’s chin. In a
crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face
helmet can be so powerful “that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be
ruled out“ (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies
to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car
Control Clinics, etc.
Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in
vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language
is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005
issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at
(800) 770-2055."
The arguements so far:
Did you actually read the original research? I have.
Here's a summary of the differences:
1) Driver in a reclined position, strapped in tightly.
2) Airbag was a special "one-off" unit, with a much higher deployment speed than those found in street cars -- even the first-generation airbags of the time.
3) Driver was positioned less than 12" from the airbag (I think that the actual distance was something like 8-10").
4) Airbag was aimed basically at the chin area due to the reclined driving position, and the relatively low position of the wheel/airbag assembly.
Even the administrator of the test stated not to read too much into that test -- it was designed very specifically to compare airbags vs. HANS devices. Once all of the information came to light, the advisory was pulled.
Having been an F&C (corner) worker, the idea of having an explosive device in the car (which is what an airbag is) is not a comforting thought, especially when having to extract the driver from the car.
Here's a summary of the differences:
1) Driver in a reclined position, strapped in tightly.
2) Airbag was a special "one-off" unit, with a much higher deployment speed than those found in street cars -- even the first-generation airbags of the time.
3) Driver was positioned less than 12" from the airbag (I think that the actual distance was something like 8-10").
4) Airbag was aimed basically at the chin area due to the reclined driving position, and the relatively low position of the wheel/airbag assembly.
Even the administrator of the test stated not to read too much into that test -- it was designed very specifically to compare airbags vs. HANS devices. Once all of the information came to light, the advisory was pulled.
Having been an F&C (corner) worker, the idea of having an explosive device in the car (which is what an airbag is) is not a comforting thought, especially when having to extract the driver from the car.
What came to light after this was released, was that the information that had been brought to the SCCA's attention was information obtained form a test involving HANS testing in Formula cars, with and without airbags. Since a driver's head is in direct line with the steering wheel usually in the very laid-back seating position, the airbag being deployed (at Formula car velocities) would not be spread out over the chest area like it would in coupe or sedan race cars.
They way I see it too, is that I'd rather have the energy of an airbag dispersed over the face of a closed face helmet, rather than my un-protected face... or worse, impacting a protruding visor forcing more of the airbag to contact the face and not the helmet. Your jaw muscles are some of the most powerful muscles in your body, and if an airbag is designed to impact an unprotected face, there shouldn't be any reason to think a protected face would fare any worse.
The context of the information had little direct correlation to modified (or not) street cars. To my knowledge, there was never any official release or update in Fas Track... which should be an indication that the SCCA jumped the gun a bit on releasing that warning.
-Stacy
They way I see it too, is that I'd rather have the energy of an airbag dispersed over the face of a closed face helmet, rather than my un-protected face... or worse, impacting a protruding visor forcing more of the airbag to contact the face and not the helmet. Your jaw muscles are some of the most powerful muscles in your body, and if an airbag is designed to impact an unprotected face, there shouldn't be any reason to think a protected face would fare any worse.
The context of the information had little direct correlation to modified (or not) street cars. To my knowledge, there was never any official release or update in Fas Track... which should be an indication that the SCCA jumped the gun a bit on releasing that warning.
-Stacy
Stacy- As a racer who wears full-face helmets, I certainly think they provide me with better overall protection. But in light of what that SCCA advisory states, I cannot recommend them being as safe as a good open face SA-rated helmet in an airbag equipped car. The argument that an airbag deployment COULD lead to contact with the chin area seems valid (although I've never had to test it) and I've never seen any evidence the info was taken out of context.
This would be some good info. It looks like a majority of helmets on the market are closed face, plus I really having heard too much about this from the guys that run my region, I think if it was a major issue it would have been brought up at are safety meetings. We have a monthly meeting coming up and I will bring the question up
Last edited by mw9; Dec 29, 2008 at 11:49 AM.
I don't think there's anything to debate as it has already been revealed that the original SCCA Advisory was taken out of context and wasn't applicable to street cars in autocross or track scenerios.
As for the debate as to whether OF or FF is better in general - I prefer the FF for the extra coverage it provides. If you get flung around in the car somehow, there's a lot of stuff exposed/sticking out that you could easily smash your exposed jaw, throat or nose on.
As for the debate as to whether OF or FF is better in general - I prefer the FF for the extra coverage it provides. If you get flung around in the car somehow, there's a lot of stuff exposed/sticking out that you could easily smash your exposed jaw, throat or nose on.
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Open face for Auto-X and little HPDE tracks (slow and/or hard to hit solid objects tracks like Little Taladega)
A Full face without a face shield for most eveything else HPDE and MAYBE TT
But I am now wearing a Bell Sport full-face with a face shield in the down/closed position so I can get used to it as I move to W2W racing in the future....(running TT now)
Funny story:
I purchased the new helmet before a Road Atlanta Track day in late November. I started the weekend with the face-shield in the up position for the 1st few sessions. So I decided it is time to go with the shield down. So I have it up while staging in the hot-pits, go out and get 1 or 2 laps in, then decide its time to snap down the shied. All is good for a lap of so, until I exhale big-time just past the start/finish line, and my shield COMPLETELY FOGS OVER! HOLY SHIATE I CAN NOT SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where is T1??
AH.... FFFFUUUUUUUKKKCCC@#$%^&*!
This is when I found out that opening the face shield with gloves on, @ >100MPH is not very easy. SO I continue to struggle to open it during T1 and the entry to T2..then just said FuKC-it, and drove thru the Esses with very limited vision.
By the time I get to the back straight, I can see better, and my heart-rate is now just below the exploding point...and I finish the session. Then in the paddock, I then went to the 2 cars/drivers behind me during this little boo-boo moment to apologize. Both of them thought I had a serious mechanical trouble, or sneezing fit, or had lost my mind....kinda funny AFTER the fact
A Full face without a face shield for most eveything else HPDE and MAYBE TT
But I am now wearing a Bell Sport full-face with a face shield in the down/closed position so I can get used to it as I move to W2W racing in the future....(running TT now)
Funny story:
I purchased the new helmet before a Road Atlanta Track day in late November. I started the weekend with the face-shield in the up position for the 1st few sessions. So I decided it is time to go with the shield down. So I have it up while staging in the hot-pits, go out and get 1 or 2 laps in, then decide its time to snap down the shied. All is good for a lap of so, until I exhale big-time just past the start/finish line, and my shield COMPLETELY FOGS OVER! HOLY SHIATE I CAN NOT SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where is T1??
AH.... FFFFUUUUUUUKKKCCC@#$%^&*!
This is when I found out that opening the face shield with gloves on, @ >100MPH is not very easy. SO I continue to struggle to open it during T1 and the entry to T2..then just said FuKC-it, and drove thru the Esses with very limited vision.
By the time I get to the back straight, I can see better, and my heart-rate is now just below the exploding point...and I finish the session. Then in the paddock, I then went to the 2 cars/drivers behind me during this little boo-boo moment to apologize. Both of them thought I had a serious mechanical trouble, or sneezing fit, or had lost my mind....kinda funny AFTER the fact
The first thing I do is aim the A/C vent at my neck so the air blows up under the helmet. Once I head out on the track, I put the fan on high. Keeps the shield or sunglasses from fogging.
Yes, but I tried to practice opening it with that little slot for the 1st time under less than ideal conditions 
and with gloves on 
So Children: practice opening the new full-face helmet with visor/sheild that you got for XMass PRIOR to goin on the track!
Did I mention how dayum LITTLE that slot is????
and with gloves on So Children: practice opening the new full-face helmet with visor/sheild that you got for XMass PRIOR to goin on the track!
Did I mention how dayum LITTLE that slot is????
Last edited by laze1; Dec 29, 2008 at 05:41 PM.
Since the "test" that SCCA looked at to come up with this "advisory" had absolutely nothing to do with any situation that would arise in the cars we drive on track, I agree with Stacy and strongly caution anyone from reading too much into it. Therefore, I don't know of any scientific proof that one helmet style is better over the other, so where what you like.
With that being said...if you are properly positioned with respect to the steering wheel, the airbag should always fully inflate before your head gets there.
Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpVLv...eature=related
Seems like the full face (or a hybrid, which I wear) would be fine, if not better, for that.
With that being said...if you are properly positioned with respect to the steering wheel, the airbag should always fully inflate before your head gets there.
Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpVLv...eature=related
Seems like the full face (or a hybrid, which I wear) would be fine, if not better, for that.
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