This is such a stupid argument. When you go to the drag strip you go drag RACING regardless if you are involved in competition or not. You can go to the track and RACE when entered in an HPDE. You can race against yourself and your own personal lap times. It's just the word we wuse becuase there isn't anything more appropriate. When someone asks you where your going you don't tell them "I'm going HPDE'ing". Road racing differentiates the activity from auto crossing. When someone says they are going road racing I understand exactly what they mean.

 

When you go to the drag strip you are ALWAYS racing. There is a clock and you are timed so there is always an element of racing. HPDE's are not the same. In a school, there should not be any timing. You are learning driving techniques and car control. Is standard drivers ed road racing?

 

thank you JET, this is my exact thought as well. I am racing against myself. If I am correct I believe you can time your laps under HPDE 2 and up events. If not, I know 60% of the instructors and I know they will let you time your laps, but only review them after the session. Thanks for wording it well JET.

 

if you mean NASA, then no. All HPDE groups are strickly "non competitive". Timing occurs while the TT is running or one of the other competitive events. This doesn't mean it's not done, but it's not suppose to.

The issue isn't really about the actual term, but how the event is labeled. There are two issues with using "racing" when talking about a true HPDE. First is liability and insurance. If there is ANY competitive references in the event then the amount of require insurance triples. This means the timing of any laps.

The second part of this is it also an attitude for many. They are trying to get the fastest lap possible, and tend to exclude things like driver curtesy, signaled passing, and keeping the driving limites to 8/10s or so. Going more than that places additional risks on everyone envolved and should be kept to competitive driving. The HPDE is for learning techniques and dynamics, the competitons are for pushing those and yourself to the limits you are comfortable with. See the difference?

 

yeah i see where you are coming from as well. Timing is good to check yourself for improvement. Like taking better lines, granted point by's can affect your time, it is a good benchmark to use for improvement. I know it isnt technically legal but it is done, and as long as you see the the results after

 

HPDE is not only a learning environment. There are plenty of race teams there running in the advanced group who certainly aren't in the "learning" phase. Advanced drivers are running for lap times usually with transponders or some other GPS tracking equipment/software for timing.

 

Jet, I would think in FL Race Teams are using Test & Tunes prior to any NASA or SCCA race instead of running with HPDE Advanced groups. I run with advanced groups with many clubs and the racers get bored to quickly because of the lack of passing zones. However they do attend HPDE days for more of car setups than anything else especially in the beginning of the season.

Test & Tunes they can pass anywhere on the track. However, you have to have your Racing License to attend a Test & Tune.

 

We have SCCA, NASA, even ALMS cars out there on the track in the advanced groups. The last time I was at Sebring the Compuware Vettes were out there running their tire tests in the advanced group.

 

But testing tires and setups is NOT RACING. Why is that so hard to understand?

Racing implies running a car at 10/10th or more, competing with others or with yourself for best times, trophies, etc etc.

My original comment was more akin to trying to change a way of thinking... obviously, that task is too difficult. The OP may not have the mindset that the only goal out there is to come in first or to be the fastest (a RACING mindset). But when someone says "help me prepare for Road Racing", that's what I and most normal people think about.

I understand that it's "Easier" to say it, but I'm sorry, I don't buy that as an excuse to not inform people of ACTUALLY what we do. In fact... what better way to turn someone on to the sport?! Most people don't think they can go racing (even though it's painfully obvious it's very easy to do it)... but when you explain to them that they can bring their street car out and have a good time, AND improve their driving... that's a good thing.

JETPILOT, I'm sorry, but it is decidedly not a stupid argument ... Sure, it's all about semantics... but you let me know when you start organizing events and you have to pay a couple thousand dollars more per event for Competitive insurance vs. DE insurance.

 

Thanks for proving my point! Tire Testing! Not racing, not a timed event.

Those Vettes are bad **** though!

 

yeah....especially from a novice point of view. I wouldn't wanna be driving in an HPDE with those things on my butt!! It'd make me nervous as hell!!

 

How do you evaluate tires unless your timing your laps. BTW my hot pit garage was right next to theirs and I was watching as they timed the laps.

 

FWIW ... in my opinion, simply timing your own laps does not constitute racing. Especially in the context of data logging where the point is to set baselines and then look at section or overall times to JUDGE and RECORD improvements or decrements.

There are some clubs out there that "oultaw" or ban timing equipment (even video cameras) for DE use. Some are legitimate stipulations from insurance policies, most are rules set by the club to deter students from ONLY thinking about their lap times while out on track... which by itself, when you don't know WHY your lap times are changing, will only reinforce bad habits and get drivers into trouble.