in need of rotors...help!
08-21-2009, 04:43 AM
#1
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in need of rotors...help!
I've done a search. I've posted in the brake forum with no luck. Help me!
I need new rotors for my 06 base. The car will mostly be used for the track. Does anyone have any recommendations as what to get or more importantly what to stay away from?
I know I want slotted...but thats all I know.
I need new rotors for my 06 base. The car will mostly be used for the track. Does anyone have any recommendations as what to get or more importantly what to stay away from?
I know I want slotted...but thats all I know.
08-21-2009, 05:32 AM
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I also want to add...
I'm not ready (I don't have the cash) to step up to a BBK. Would love to...but can't afford that right now.
I did one event on OEM rotors and killed those. Help.
I'm not ready (I don't have the cash) to step up to a BBK. Would love to...but can't afford that right now.
I did one event on OEM rotors and killed those. Help.
08-21-2009, 05:38 AM
#4
actually, you really don't want slotted.
Drilled and slotted rotors were developed for when pads did what is know as "Gassed out". This is where the compound vaporized and a layer of vapor formed and pressurized between the pad and the rotor.
No modern pad does this anymore. The only reason that companies still make Drilled and slotted rotors is for looks and perception. The biggest issue with this is they make the changes after the rotor is cast. So these are now stress pointes in the rotor itself and already have microcracks that will grow exponentially with heat cycles.
The other issue with this is they take mass out of the crucial parts of the rotor. The greater the contact mass and common element, the greater the heat transfer and dissipation. If you look at most high end race cars, they use a a solid blank, and those that don’t use one that was cast that way and they have enough surface area they are more concerned with unsprung weight than transfer mass.
The best bet for track use for OEM and 99% of aftermarket production based vehicles is a good solid blank with internal veins. The internal veins will help prevent heat soak and actually help the cooling process. Beck Arney makes a very good cryotreated on and it's 1/3 of the cost or less of most of the so called "Performance" rotors.
Drilled and slotted rotors were developed for when pads did what is know as "Gassed out". This is where the compound vaporized and a layer of vapor formed and pressurized between the pad and the rotor.
No modern pad does this anymore. The only reason that companies still make Drilled and slotted rotors is for looks and perception. The biggest issue with this is they make the changes after the rotor is cast. So these are now stress pointes in the rotor itself and already have microcracks that will grow exponentially with heat cycles.
The other issue with this is they take mass out of the crucial parts of the rotor. The greater the contact mass and common element, the greater the heat transfer and dissipation. If you look at most high end race cars, they use a a solid blank, and those that don’t use one that was cast that way and they have enough surface area they are more concerned with unsprung weight than transfer mass.
The best bet for track use for OEM and 99% of aftermarket production based vehicles is a good solid blank with internal veins. The internal veins will help prevent heat soak and actually help the cooling process. Beck Arney makes a very good cryotreated on and it's 1/3 of the cost or less of most of the so called "Performance" rotors.
08-21-2009, 05:39 AM
#5
what pads? Usually that has more to do with rotor life than the type of rotor itself.
08-21-2009, 05:45 AM
#7
Overall I like the hawk brand. They have some really good compounds, but some of their older stuff really can eat a Rotor. The Hawk Blues were notorious for this. Since then they have been fazing out the Blues and Blacks for the HTC and DTC compunds, which are a lot better.
The HP+ is a good street/autox compound and can be used for a while for track use. There comes a point though where a person will start really braking hard and the HP+ just isn't up to the task. How many sets of HP+'s did you go through before the weekend or the rotor gave up? How was the rotor shot, deep groves?
The HP+ is a good street/autox compound and can be used for a while for track use. There comes a point though where a person will start really braking hard and the HP+ just isn't up to the task. How many sets of HP+'s did you go through before the weekend or the rotor gave up? How was the rotor shot, deep groves?
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08-21-2009, 05:51 AM
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this was my first HPDE. I was on stock rotors and pads. At the end of the last session I was squeeling pretty good and I drove home.....3 hours away.
I haven't yet installed the HAWK pads. I wanted to wait for a new set of rotors.
edit: there are deep grooves/scars on the rotor from the metal to metal.
I haven't yet installed the HAWK pads. I wanted to wait for a new set of rotors.
edit: there are deep grooves/scars on the rotor from the metal to metal.
08-21-2009, 05:51 AM
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OEM rotors warp fast, i have slotted premium rotors from R1 Concepts and they work great, you will notice a great increase of break performace and i also bought the Hawk pads, almost 5 months now since i installed the rotors and pads no issues at all.
08-21-2009, 06:05 AM
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i've got stainless lines and motul 600 fluid so I'm good there.
I guess I'll start looking at blanks. Where can I find some more info about the Arney blanks mentioned above?
I guess I'll start looking at blanks. Where can I find some more info about the Arney blanks mentioned above?
08-21-2009, 06:12 AM
#13
this was my first HPDE. I was on stock rotors and pads. At the end of the last session I was squeeling pretty good and I drove home.....3 hours away.
I haven't yet installed the HAWK pads. I wanted to wait for a new set of rotors.
edit: there are deep grooves/scars on the rotor from the metal to metal.
I haven't yet installed the HAWK pads. I wanted to wait for a new set of rotors.
edit: there are deep grooves/scars on the rotor from the metal to metal.
You can look at the Beck Arneys at many parts stores including Autozone, but they may need to order them.
08-21-2009, 06:13 AM
#14
Most likely the increase in performance was from the fluids, lines, and pads alone.
08-21-2009, 06:18 AM
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Any other blanks someone might want to recommend?
08-21-2009, 06:52 AM
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oops fixed
by the way the reason why i was forced to get new rotors was because my rotors warped after driving it hard for 22k miles, steering wheel used to shake everytime i break hard, so far R1 Concepts premium rotors are great and the shaking stopped right now my car has 37 k miles.
by the way the reason why i was forced to get new rotors was because my rotors warped after driving it hard for 22k miles, steering wheel used to shake everytime i break hard, so far R1 Concepts premium rotors are great and the shaking stopped right now my car has 37 k miles.
Last edited by Goku350z2007; 08-21-2009 at 07:08 AM.
08-21-2009, 07:50 AM
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The rear brake setup on the non-track model Z seems to not be up to the task of track driving. OEM rear pads wear out notoriously quickly. I wore out a set of Porterfield rear pads at Buttonwillow in about 1.5 days. It might be a good idea to keep some spare pads in your tool kit if you go to some of the bigger tracks. At the time, I also had a spare set of dedicated rotors for track days (I got a really good deal on them from a friend, so it was economical). That way you always have brakes to drive home on.
You probably figured out the hard way that you should always inspect your brakes before going out to a track day.
You probably figured out the hard way that you should always inspect your brakes before going out to a track day.
08-21-2009, 12:29 PM
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Marty....I can't say I agree entirely with you on your analysis of slotted rotors.
You're dead on for cross-drilled rotors. Those are crap and shouldn't be on anything resembling a sports car.
However, every Grand-Am GT and DP car I ever helped design and build used slotted rotors....regardless of brand (we used Brembo, PFC and even AP Racing). The slots get you a bit of extra surface area, which assists in heat dissipation.
One thing the blanks do have over slotteds is that the blanks are nearly always cheaper. Using a more aggressive pad for the track (and you most certainly will) such as a CarboTech XP8 or XP10, you will eat your rotors a bit each time out (which is why you should swap pads for normal street driving). As such, rotors become much more the consumable and paying for those slots can get expensive. So for the sake of your wallet...you might want to stick with a blank rotor.
You're dead on for cross-drilled rotors. Those are crap and shouldn't be on anything resembling a sports car.
However, every Grand-Am GT and DP car I ever helped design and build used slotted rotors....regardless of brand (we used Brembo, PFC and even AP Racing). The slots get you a bit of extra surface area, which assists in heat dissipation.
One thing the blanks do have over slotteds is that the blanks are nearly always cheaper. Using a more aggressive pad for the track (and you most certainly will) such as a CarboTech XP8 or XP10, you will eat your rotors a bit each time out (which is why you should swap pads for normal street driving). As such, rotors become much more the consumable and paying for those slots can get expensive. So for the sake of your wallet...you might want to stick with a blank rotor.
08-21-2009, 03:04 PM
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The rear brake setup on the non-track model Z seems to not be up to the task of track driving. OEM rear pads wear out notoriously quickly. I wore out a set of Porterfield rear pads at Buttonwillow in about 1.5 days. It might be a good idea to keep some spare pads in your tool kit if you go to some of the bigger tracks. At the time, I also had a spare set of dedicated rotors for track days (I got a really good deal on them from a friend, so it was economical). That way you always have brakes to drive home on.
You probably figured out the hard way that you should always inspect your brakes before going out to a track day.
You probably figured out the hard way that you should always inspect your brakes before going out to a track day.
Anyhow, I bought some stoptech/powerslot blank rotors.
08-21-2009, 05:44 PM
#20
Marty....I can't say I agree entirely with you on your analysis of slotted rotors.
You're dead on for cross-drilled rotors. Those are crap and shouldn't be on anything resembling a sports car.
However, every Grand-Am GT and DP car I ever helped design and build used slotted rotors....regardless of brand (we used Brembo, PFC and even AP Racing). The slots get you a bit of extra surface area, which assists in heat dissipation.
One thing the blanks do have over slotteds is that the blanks are nearly always cheaper. Using a more aggressive pad for the track (and you most certainly will) such as a CarboTech XP8 or XP10, you will eat your rotors a bit each time out (which is why you should swap pads for normal street driving). As such, rotors become much more the consumable and paying for those slots can get expensive. So for the sake of your wallet...you might want to stick with a blank rotor.
You're dead on for cross-drilled rotors. Those are crap and shouldn't be on anything resembling a sports car.
However, every Grand-Am GT and DP car I ever helped design and build used slotted rotors....regardless of brand (we used Brembo, PFC and even AP Racing). The slots get you a bit of extra surface area, which assists in heat dissipation.
One thing the blanks do have over slotteds is that the blanks are nearly always cheaper. Using a more aggressive pad for the track (and you most certainly will) such as a CarboTech XP8 or XP10, you will eat your rotors a bit each time out (which is why you should swap pads for normal street driving). As such, rotors become much more the consumable and paying for those slots can get expensive. So for the sake of your wallet...you might want to stick with a blank rotor.
