Notices
Autocross/Road SCCA Solo II, SCCA Club Racing, Redline Track Events, Speed Trial, Speed Ventures, Grand-Am Cup, JGTC, Procar Australia

Heel/toeing

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 16, 2003 | 04:02 PM
  #1  
DSoriano8's Avatar
DSoriano8
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
From: MD
Question Heel/toeing

heel-toeing ... what exactly is it...i'm not a big race car person and dunno what it does, i mean i've seen it done but
Reply
Old Nov 16, 2003 | 04:22 PM
  #2  
John's Avatar
John
...
Premier Member
iTrader: (17)
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,869
Likes: 1
From: San Diego, CA
Default

It's the process of matching revs when you're downshifting before a corner. How to do it? Use the left part of the ball of your right foot to brake, twist your ankle so that the right part of the ball of your foot blips the throttle when you downshift. I think the Z's pedals are positioned well for heel-toeing, so it's pretty easy for me to do...
Reply
Old Nov 17, 2003 | 05:31 AM
  #3  
veeracer's Avatar
veeracer
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Castro Valley CA
Default

You also should realize why it should be done. It is not done to slow the car down. That job should be left to the brakes. It is used to be in the correct gear when its time to acclerate out of a corner.
Reply
Old Nov 18, 2003 | 11:11 AM
  #4  
mhoward1's Avatar
mhoward1
350Z-holic
Premier Member
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,502
Likes: 22
From: NC
Default

The secret is not just in learning to do it, but doing it smoothly. With H-T, you can greatly reduce or eliminate the transition of changing to a lower gear so that you are set (and the chassis) for the corner and in the correct gear before entering it and starting on the throttle maintenance.
Reply
Old Nov 18, 2003 | 11:49 AM
  #5  
Xeinth's Avatar
Xeinth
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Dallas, Tx
Default

Hmm... tall people need to figure out a different way to do it. It would be impossible for me to turn my right foot in, it really only can go out because otherwise my knee would have to go through the steering wheel.

Of course my foot is big enough i probably could mash both at the same time with my foot verticle. =)

X
Reply
Old Nov 18, 2003 | 12:24 PM
  #6  
John's Avatar
John
...
Premier Member
iTrader: (17)
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,869
Likes: 1
From: San Diego, CA
Default

It's just something that takes getting used to. I know people who are 6'3" and can do it in Spec Miatas with no problem, so the Z should be know problem for you...
Reply
Old Nov 18, 2003 | 01:35 PM
  #7  
Audito350Z's Avatar
Audito350Z
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Default

I added a wider pedal cover to my brake pedal... this allows me to get my foot a little closer to the throttle so I can blip between shifts while still braking for corners.

With a little practice, this method of downshifting has helped me become a much smoother driver at the racetrack and it's easier on the car.

PeteH
Reply
Old Nov 18, 2003 | 03:11 PM
  #8  
mcclaskz's Avatar
mcclaskz
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
From: Noneya
Default

I wear a size 13, no problems. Its a lot easier with my JWT flywheel though!
Reply
Old Nov 19, 2003 | 04:36 AM
  #9  
mhoward1's Avatar
mhoward1
350Z-holic
Premier Member
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,502
Likes: 22
From: NC
Default

13's here as well.
Reply
Old Nov 19, 2003 | 07:19 PM
  #10  
mofoz's Avatar
mofoz
New Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,670
Likes: 1
From: Prospect Heights, IL
Default

i wear 13s and its alittle tougher, but im getting the hang of it.
Reply
Old Nov 27, 2003 | 06:09 PM
  #11  
slay2k's Avatar
slay2k
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Default

There's gotta be a pedal replacement solution... our pedals suck for heel & toe..
Reply
Old Nov 27, 2003 | 06:19 PM
  #12  
mcclaskz's Avatar
mcclaskz
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
From: Noneya
Default

Exactly what is the problem? Very easy...
Reply
Old Nov 27, 2003 | 09:49 PM
  #13  
slay2k's Avatar
slay2k
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Default

Obviously you either haven't tried it or you got size 13+ feet...

The gas and brake pedals are too far apart..
Reply
Old Nov 28, 2003 | 11:18 AM
  #14  
mcclaskz's Avatar
mcclaskz
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
From: Noneya
Default

I do it every day. Sorry you can't...
Reply
Old Nov 28, 2003 | 11:34 AM
  #15  
slay2k's Avatar
slay2k
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Default

Thanks for the pointless posts..
Reply
Old Nov 28, 2003 | 03:57 PM
  #16  
orhanz33's Avatar
orhanz33
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,559
Likes: 0
From: North Jersey
Default

can someone post a step by step process for heel+toe shifting to i can start practicing?

is this proper form?: your right foot should be pointing to the clutch with the ball under the toe of the right foot on the brake, and the heel of your right foot on the throttle...what are the steps?
Reply
Old Nov 28, 2003 | 04:14 PM
  #17  
slay2k's Avatar
slay2k
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Default

You're trying to raise the RPMs everytime you downshift to make up for the engine's natural decline in RPMs when you disconnect the clutch.

You can even do heel & toe simulation without actually doing heel & toe... like so:

1. Clutch in.
2. Downshift.
3. Rev the gas quickly.
4. Clutch out.

This matches the RPMs when you shift down, and is the way I downshift when I drive. However, the purpose of heel & toe is to be able to BRAKE AND DOWNSHIFT at the same time without disturbing the balance of the car...

So, heel & toe is basically same as above, except you need to keep 1 foot on the brake at all times:

1. Brake with ball of right foot.
2. Clutch in.
3. Downshift.
4. Rev gas with heel of right foot, while ON THE BRAKE with toe.
5. Clutch out.

During the entire process, you never stop braking... that's the point.

This is very hard to do in the Z unless you got some big shoes, because the brake & gas pedals are far apart (hence my previous posts). I'm trying to find extension pedals or some other sort of solution that makes this process easier.
Reply
Old Nov 29, 2003 | 07:10 AM
  #18  
GaryM05's Avatar
GaryM05
New Member
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 4
From: Golden, CO
Default

Actually, the name 'heel and toe' is kind of a misnomer. The easiest way to do this is with the left side of your right foot on the brake pedal, and the right side on the gas. This way, you just roll your foot over to the right to blip the throttle. This allows you to keep your heel anchored on the floor for more precise movement.

The two toughest things for me to get when I was first learning this were having confidence that I could brake properly with only half of my foot on the brake pedal, and finding the right position for my right foot.

Braking confidence will come with practice. I had always been used to picking my right foot completely off the floor and moving it over to the brake pedal. This is not necessary. I found that if I place my heel on the floor below and between the gas and brake, that I could just pivot my right foot over to get on the brake. At that point, it's already in the right position to blip the throttle.

Once you get the right movement down, it's just a matter of practice. I learned this technique from board member (and frequent SportZ magazine contributor) dkmura. I have size 11 feet, and I've found that the Z's pedals are well placed for me.

The book 'Going Faster' by the Skip Barber Racing School has an excellent description of this technique, complete with detailed pictures of what you should be doing at each step.

Good luck, and be sure to practice this at every opportunity.

Gary

Last edited by GaryM05; Nov 29, 2003 at 07:13 AM.
Reply
Old Dec 1, 2003 | 06:55 AM
  #19  
Dissolved's Avatar
Dissolved
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 0
From: ________
Default

the 2nd poster gave a perfect description. Use half of your right foot for the brake. The other half for the gas. I'm 6'2 and wear a size 14 shoe and still do it. Know how I learned? Practicing in the company car
Reply
Old Dec 1, 2003 | 06:59 AM
  #20  
Dissolved's Avatar
Dissolved
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 0
From: ________
Default

Originally posted by GaryM05
Actually, the name 'heel and toe' is kind of a misnomer. The easiest way to do this is with the left side of your right foot on the brake pedal, and the right side on the gas. This way, you just roll your foot over to the right to blip the throttle. This allows you to keep your heel anchored on the floor for more precise movement.
Sorry didnt see this. Good description Gary
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:34 PM.