I would appreciate opinions from you track guys that have wet driving experience.

I have been looking forward to Redline Timeattack at Infineon ever since I heard about it. I ordered a helmet and have been extremely stoked to finally invest in my driving skill, however the forecast says rain. I am not so sure I want to run in the rain on my first outing. What do you guys think? Obviously its great to get some instruction on driving in the rain, but I really wanted my first time out to be simple and to really get a feel for my car.

Heres my setup,

my most important mod; ME with no track experience
BC BR coils
Alliance BBK
Volk GTF 19X10.5 +15 19X9.5 +17
Toyo T1R 275R 235F
JP type N front, type A sides, and type S diffuser

Basically If I break something I cant afford to fix it at the moment thats part of why I am hesitating. And if I don't go Ill be working the pit for a friend at thunderhill drift which isn't a bad compromise I suppose. I trust myself to keep it on the track but with wet conditions I'm not quite as confident, I haven't even really driven my car in the rain.

Much appreciated!

 

Yes. HPDE will run in the rain. There is no refund.

I had my first HPDE in the rain. It was quite a learning experience. Several "OH shiit" moments. Only negative factor is that I had to drive with the windows down (for hand signals).

 

either you bite the bullet and you may not feel as bad as you think or you wait till you have the condition you want.

 

I say go for it but take in all the considerations, Infineon has some walls on very fast pieces of track (taken at or near WOT), in the rain it may be alot to risk if its your DD and you don't have cash to take care of. On the other side of the arguement, wet track days can be a little easier on the engines (and other equipment too) due to the lower operating temps and gentle throttle application.

To me the money thing is the biggest factor. I just got back from a track day and saw car after car being towed away. My pit-partner (the guy parked next to me) rolled his STI in turn 9 at Willow Springs' big track, another guy in a Evo X had an oil fire due to his shop's error, a guy in a M3 missed a shift and bent a couple of valves... the list goes on and on. This is not ment to scare you just alert you to the perils of driving your car hard. Take it all into consideration.

 

I haven't actually paid yet so I'm not worried there. Thanks for the advice and I didn't think about my windows having to be down if thats a requirement Ill have some things potentially getting wet that don't like to be wet.

 

Actually, driving in the rain isn't a bad place to start. You drive slower than you would normally (or at least you should) so it gives you more time to process everything like the line, visual points, corner stations, etc.

Once you are comfortable you can start feeling chassis dynamics at a much slower speed as well. I would even say turn the traction system off, drive slower than you feel you should but pay attention to what the car is doing and what the instructor is saying. You will feel the little wiggle before you lose traction. You can notice that as you decrease power the back end will rotate and as you increase power the front will push, both is counter intuitive to what most people think.

all in all, I think driving in the rain isn't a bad way to learn at all and if you can drive well in the rain, you can drive well in the dry. Use it to learn, not to just drive fast.


On the flip side, stay warm and dry when you are OUT of the car.

 

Thanks for the advice guys. I really wouldn't hesitate if I hadn't lost the savings I set aside just for the Z and potential expenses due to track stuff. Its a gamble that I probably shouldn't take at the moment, but man I have been waiting to track for so long!!!! This is killing me...

 

You're probably not able to get a refund, so it's probably worth going and hope for the best. Maybe it doesn't rain, or not rain much. Hard to say from the forecast, 20-30% chance for the time being. Safety is the top concern for HPDE so they'll help you run safely, but can't stop bad things from happening either. You can choose though how much risk you want to take on the track. Just take it easier when walls/hard objects are close by, put extra air in the tires and soften the suspension (typically, consult your instructor/local track rats for recommendations)), and leave the VDC on. You'll still have fun, but yeah, not as much as a dry day. Good luck and have fun!

 

I agree with what the others have said about going in the rain first, however, you're saying this is the RLTA where you are racing against a clock, right (or are you just doing the HPDE portion of it? If so, a) I do not think this is a good "HPDE" for your first event and b) then I do not think you should drive in it. Sears Point has a LOT of walls - your first HPDE should be in a club environment (i.e. no timers and good instruction) at Thunderhill Raceway.

Are there instructors at the RLTA? You need an instructor your first time on the track, and Sears is not a good first track.

 

Thank you for chiming in Marty! You are right, I am there to learn not set some record. So you think that the skills that I will develop will benefit dry driving conditions as well? Obviously the overall experience dry vs. wet is very different but if at least the car control I develop will help me for dry conditions I will definitely be considering going through with it. I kind of had this visual in my head that physics would be completely different and I would be learning all these special skills that would complicate the experience too much for my first time and I wouldn't walk away with anything that I could apply to normal driving conditions.

 

Update: Since you haven't paid, I'd skip it. Go indoor karting or play Forza at home to get your speed fix. Wait for a dry day, the track is risky enough w/out adding water.

 

Yeah. Saturday is HPDE and Sunday is competition. I was originally planning on running HPDE (five 25min runs with an instructor) and then based on that and feedback from my instructor I was thinking about entering the enthusiast class. Their HPDE sounds very relaxed and appropriate for first timers. I know that I can control myself and not push too hard, I don't need to go WOT on straights or any of that crap. I just want to control my car thats all.

I hear about the events at Thunderhill as well. And thats the main reason that I would feel okay about skipping this event. RLTT just sounds like a unique experience and thats a lot of track time at Infineon for $200! Its also open pits on Sunday which would be awesome cause they have some serious cars running obviously!

 

Car control and chassis dynamics are the same in all conditions, it's just the friction threasholds that change.

 

What the others have said is right--you will certainly learn a lot and the skills will still be applicable in dry traction conditions.

That said, I probably would wait for a clearer weekend given that you haven't already paid, and that you are not in a position to pay for repairs right now. Try to be comfortable with the line and your vehicle at the limits of traction, learn as much as you can and have fun. Then tackle the wet stuff.

If you still decide to go understand that the skills you learn will serve you, and if you can control it in rain you should be even better when it is dry. Schumacher was GREAT in the rain--giving him a distinct advantage over other F1 guys when he was in his prime. I defer to others with knowledge of Infineon tho...wet+walls+first time would make me nervous.

 

Skip it. RLTA will come around again, and there are many clubs that host events there as well as at the other 2 (or 3 depending on how you define "our area") local tracks. Sears is technical and has a lot of walls. As a part-time instructor, I would never recommend that track as someone's first HPDE given the options.

Go to that event at T-hill the same weekend. NCRC is there, though I think they are full.

 

Thats the thing is that I really am not going for a "speed fix" I know most people go just to see how fast they can go. I really am going for car control. And I know that Ill learn valuable lessons in a wet environment and eventually I will look forward to getting some wet experience under my belt, its whether I should go wet for my first track day or not. I have to get a feel for what I'll gain and whether the gamble is worth it.

Honestly if I had the financial backing and things PERFECTLY in order as far as prep it wouldn't even be a question.

 

If you're not willing to or cant afford to walk away from the track without your car that day, then I wouldn't do it.

That said, get a cheap miata and learn from there. You could probably even get a 1st gen miata for the price of your wheels lol.

Plus your car is so nice why risk an off-track and having bumpers ripped off or wheels bent etc

 

Your first time - I'd say no. The rubber laid down on the driving line will be slick as snot once it gets wet. I've been out on tracks when it started raining (light) and both times it became a nightmare, scarier than the heaviest rain I've ever driven through on the interstates. You wind up driving so slow it's not worth it and I can only imagine what it would be like for a first timer.

If you want to try driving in the rain - go to an autocross when the rain chance is high. You'll learn some wet handling and get a good idea what the car will and won't do on wet roads. Most are run in places there is no chance of hitting anything.

 

^ this is all true and the car is nice but I built it myself knowing that it would be tracked, and it will get thrashed eventually but I look forward to it. Its a track car first, I have an aerosync polyurethane front and Central 20 urethane sides for the track as well so I'll run those if I decide to go. I think I'm leaning towards T-hill for this weekend. I may see if I can get some drift instruction. Scott do you attend drift events there? If so do you know what I can expect as far as instructors and what Ill learn at this event?

Thanks Dave, and thank you all for the advice. You guys know your stuff and I appreciate taking the time to answer my questions honestly. Its all been very good advice.

Now I've never been super into drift but I have an open mind and I know its fun, so I'm gonna go help out at Thunderdrift, our SR20 S14 is competing so I'm gonna go see what we can do!! I'm thinking about bringing the Z and getting some instruction while I'm there.

 

If your close to the track, show up and pay when you get there if the weather is good.