I know there is a lot about tires on this forum. But I stil can't make my mind, so I'd like to post my specific question.

I'm looking to buy new tires for this year and I have some criteriums that quite difficult to fit together.

I'd like my tires to be

1) For street use

2) For autox use

3) Light

4) Best dry grip for autox

5) Acceptable wet grip

6) Last long (20K?)

What tires from the table above you think will fit me best?

 

Forgot to mention... I often have to travel 200+ miles to autox and I can't bring another set of wheels with me. So here is my problem to find tires who do well both on street and in autox

 

Tough question. Here are my thoughts:

All of the tires you have listed are essentially good street tires. They will preform about the same as eachother, and MUCH WORSE than any R-Compound tire that the serious people will be using (at least in my area). Therefore, instead of asking which street tire is best for AutoX, you need to ask yourself if you want to be competitive or not.

If the answer is "No, I'm just out there to have some fun," then pretty much any street tire will be fine. You should probably be evaluating them based on cost rather than pure performance, since your performance level will be nowhere near those on race tires.

If the answer is "Yes, I would like to show people what I can do, and maybe get a trophy," then you should buy a set of race tires like the Toyo RA-1, Kumho Ecsta V700, Hoosier, Pilot Sport Cup, etc. You should also buy a separate set of wheels and just swap the tires before driving to the track. You will put more wear on the tire in 3 laps of AutoX than you will in 200 miles of highway (or leisurely) street driving.

I decided that I wanted to at least compete with the top people, just so I could see how I was doing, and I therefore decided to go with Kumho V700 (265/35-18) tires and Enkei RPO2-J (18x8x35mm offset) wheels. The entire setup cost me $2003 including tax and installation from Discount Tire. I now switch to race tires at home before each event and switch back to street tires afterwards.

The Kumho's work well on the highway and well on the track, but are probably not as sticky as the Hoosiers (but those may not wear as well on the highway).

I now also buy the least expensive "performance" street tires I can since I don't need the little bit extra that the more expensive street tires provide. Since I put lots of daily driven commute miles on my street tires, I now believe I have the best of both worlds (well, at least the "good" of both worlds).

Anyhow, those are my thoughts. They don't exactly answer your question, but maybe you could find an easier (or better) answer by looking at things in a different way.

Good luck!

-D'oh!

 

Hmm... Good advice. I didn't think about driving TO autox on race tires. Somehow I had an idea that one 400 mile trip (2x200) will probably eat race tires at once.... Of course I don't have any such expirience so it's pure guess. So how many higway miles did you already put on your Kumho V700?

Also It just happened to me that if you have exactly the same 4 race wheels, it possible to put a pair in front and a pair in trunk and than put them on on site. This way if you rotate a pair you driving on you can double (or save twice?) the life of a race set.
I have a space for two wheels in trunk (less spare). Do you think it's okay to drive on 2 race + 2 street?

Thanks

 

The Kumho MX would be an excellent choice, they are cheap and provide exccellent grip. One thing to watch with them though, is that their sidewalls are not as stiff you you will want to use more are. I think 45psi cold in the front and 40psi cold in the rear is good for auto-x.

 

It's always interesting to make a decision on a product, when the performance criteria are so varied.

If you haven't, the first thing to do is make a Pareto Chart: put your criteria in order of importance and assign relative values to each. For example, "dry auto-x performance" is 2.0, "auto-x" is 1.8, "lightweight" is 1.6, etc. Next, using test comparisons, and commentary by users, rank each tire in each category; then multiply each ranking by your assigned values, and total each tire's numbers. This method should allow you to eliminate a few candidates, even if their is no clear-cut winner, so you can concentrate on the important stuff, like saying no to French products and deciding on the coolest tread pattern. (Just kidding - sort of.)

D'oh's suggestion is a good one, that I've been practicing: driving to and from events on my Kumhos.

Also, in some areas, the sponsoring organizations have street-tire classes that specifically disallow "R" tires, so you can be competititve on your daily-driver-rubber.

 

oooohhhh, a scientific approach....I'm in awe.

Vlad, I don't know for sure, but I know I've been to at least 6 events on my race tires, so at say an average of 90 miles round trip that puts me at 540 miles. Plus I did a 60 miles "test drive" when I first got the tires, so I've done at least 600 miles not including the track time (which is proabably about 5 miles total for all 6 events). The track time is what did all the wear. I could see changes in the tire after each event, but not between the event and when I got home.

EDIT: And if you can drive with 3 normal tires and 1 limited service spare, then I think you should have no problem driving with 2 normal tires and 2 race tires. Just be very careful because the VDC will probably not work correctly with tires that have such different levels of grip. Probably want to put the race tires on the back just to make sure the car doesn't oversteer too easily.

-D'oh!

 

We have several people in Utah that drive about 250 miles round trip on race rubber( V700) the Hoosier is not a DOT tire as it has nylon belts. The Kumho does fine, just be careful. Maybe ask someone in the club if they could take a set of rubber out for you.

 

I finally desided to go with Toyo Proxes T1S. There are reviews available on 1010tires.com, and there are 30 to 60 reviews for both Kumho and Toyo. Kumho has alarming number of broken wall problems. Probably it's not real statistics, but in Toyo T1S reviews I didn't find that problem mentioned.

I also desided to wait with race tires for a season. I can just watch my progress in % to other people progress in autox. I do it not to be first immediatelly, but to learn to drive the car and have fun. Next year if my budget allows...

I also going with Enkei RPF1 rims. I still can't deside what sizes to take. 17x8 or 18x8... Or go wider than stock, and into BSP. Than I could also install rear sway bar. Without race tires it's all the same be the last all the time, isn't it?

Any recommendation on 17 rim sizes? And tire sizes? I'd love to have equal size front and rear, but saving OEM difference between fron and rear radius (stugger?).

 

15.8 lbs for 17x8". All for around $265 a wheel. Anybody has them here?

 

Going to a 17" wheel from a stock 18" wheel (you have a touring 6MT, right?) is also not allowed in BS. I really wish it was, though.

 

No, I have AT. My stock is 17", as you can see on my signature.

The thing is how can anybody distinct between AT and MT, if they don't know about AT and MT trick on Z? It's even the same trim name: 350z Touring. So I see 17 and 18 are both stock options. Yes, they tied to the choise of gearbox, so what?

 

I can't see anything of the such in your signature. I see a pic of a car with non-stock wheels, and perspective is from a side angle so I can't tell

You are limited to what is on your car's model stock. There is no 18" auto option, so you are luckily on the 17s.

For me to go to 17s, I've been told you have to change everything out to the model that has those sizes. The kicker there is the VDC.

Locally, you might get by with it, though. I'm sure nobody would say anything. All I ever see myself racing is locally, so I might see if I can figure something out. 18s are a lot more expensive and have more limited options.

 

The fact that the Toyo T1-S is used in the Touring Series as their tire of choice and that they have are pretty sticky from first hand knowledge, they would be your best bet. For it lasting 20K (LOL) anytime you do comepetitive driving, your basically going to have a lot more wear.

 

Just tried out my new set of Poxes T1-S's out at a practice autoX day this past weekend. I put about 300 road miles on the tires before I autoX-ed them. I went with 245/40-18 up front and in the rear I kept to the stock size, 245/45-18. From my first run, it felt like a different car. It felt more neutral and it was easy to get it to over-steer. They are definately grippier than the stock RE040's, which isn't a surprise. I'm happy w/ my choice of tires, my only concern, if any, is with their durability. I did about 15 runs that day and the tire is showing some wear, nothing significant, but more than I had expected. Other than that it's a great tire IMO.

 

My Ottawa club has a 2% non-R compound tire bonus. Although it doesn't quite meet the deficit in performance, it certainly helps those such as myself who like to slalom their street setup.

Personally, I'm looking at Kumho MXs 245/40 18 front and rear.

 

With limited wet, you have to go either Falken Azenis or BFG G-Force KD's. High tread, both are driveable in the rain. The best dry rain tire on the market is the G-Force KDW II(new tread design, type NT). It is the only all-weather tire that comes close to a KD in dry grip. Sizes are limited right now as it is slowly replacing the older KDW, but they do have a 245/40-18. Below those, if you are looking as S03's or GS-D3's then save your money and buy ECSTA MXs. They are comparable in dry, close in wet with just a little worse ride and noise. They will just save you a lot of money in tire cahnges. Although several of the national Street Touring drivers think they are a great tire, none are winning trophies with them in the Pros. Just don't expect any tire that can be competitive in auto-Xing to last long. The softer the tire, the more the grip and the quicker the wear.

 

New opinions?

 

Wow, there's a thread from the past eh?

I ran 245/40/18 f&r Kumho MX all season last year. For the cost and performance, it's an excellent street/solo2 setup. Yes, the sidewalls are soft and they can be noisy on the street, but there is a fair amount of traction - especially when they're almost worn down. Since the thread is symetrical, the tires can be unmounted and switched sides. Durability is reasonable, I got ~ 5 months and 100+ Solo2 runs out of them (and there's still an event or two left in them). Taking everything into consideration, I liked them so much I purchased another set.

Having said that, I'm quite interested in trying out a set of of the new Azenis RT-615. I'll likely be mounting a set of those in August once the current MXs are roasted off.

 

I just got a set of these for the SpecV (I pretty much ground the Toyos off during a weekend of runs on very abrasive asphalt).

These tires ROCK in the wet! The starter said the only people able to launch harder in the wet than I was (in the SpecV) were the STIs. This was against people on Ecsta V700s, Azenis, and T1s.

In comparison to the dry runs, they weren't as good as full out DOT-R tires, just over one second slower on a 50 second course.