DIY Assemble your own Big Brake Kits: Caliper Brackets (Custom)
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Originally Posted by BlackSpec02
Anyone make a kit that comes with 4-piston SL's?
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So I talked with the engineers at Wilwood... their BBKs for the Z have not come out yet even though they are featured in their catalog. Wilwood will be having an all Wilwood Brake kit for the front and for the rear some time soon. The rears are suposed to be in the spring and will have a drum for the e-brake. Also, the kits will feature rotor hats that fit the z and the parts will be available for individual orders outside of the kit... but the part numbers won't be available until the kits are. So until then, it looks like the best way to go is with a hat that is a close fit and needs the center hole bored for the Z. Plus even if the exact hat was available now, it would probably be a special order item which would mean it would be harder to find a cheap price.
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Originally Posted by atlsupdawg#2
Infantsam,
You provided a lot of good information in your post but yeah, I think the "engineering" comment was a bit of a slap in the face. I don't think we were out to pass ourselves off as engineers and definetly not trying to insult the intelligence of those that work in the field. I myself am an aircraft mechanic so I'm definetly game for fabricrating to save $$$. I also understand the seriousness of SAFETY as it relates to my hobby as well as my passengers that fly.
With that said, being a brake engineer I'm glad to see from your expert opinion that we are headed in the right direction. I understand that the purpose of this thread was not to reinvent the wheel, but hell with all the knowledge chiming in here could open doors for possibly fabricating ones own set-up. I for one have learned a lot and this thread has definetly involved a lot of thought.
Sooooo, where do we stand so far? I think the calipers we'd use are pretty much a given. Brackets, kbiz will be working on that. Are they radial mounts or lug mount brackets?? I guess the only thing we need a definitive answer on are the hats..
You provided a lot of good information in your post but yeah, I think the "engineering" comment was a bit of a slap in the face. I don't think we were out to pass ourselves off as engineers and definetly not trying to insult the intelligence of those that work in the field. I myself am an aircraft mechanic so I'm definetly game for fabricrating to save $$$. I also understand the seriousness of SAFETY as it relates to my hobby as well as my passengers that fly.
With that said, being a brake engineer I'm glad to see from your expert opinion that we are headed in the right direction. I understand that the purpose of this thread was not to reinvent the wheel, but hell with all the knowledge chiming in here could open doors for possibly fabricating ones own set-up. I for one have learned a lot and this thread has definetly involved a lot of thought.
Sooooo, where do we stand so far? I think the calipers we'd use are pretty much a given. Brackets, kbiz will be working on that. Are they radial mounts or lug mount brackets?? I guess the only thing we need a definitive answer on are the hats..
I think the brackets that I'll be getting in the mail are lug mounts... it should be around wed.
These are the hats I'm thinking of for the front kit:
Rotor Bolt Circle:
8 x 7.62”
Wheel Lug Pattern:
5 x 4.50”
Hat offset:
1.25”
Stud Hole Diameter:
.52”
Center hole ID:
3.06”
Face Thickness:
.25”
Clearence ID:
6.32”
Mount hole:
.323”
Wilwood Part Number:
170-3265
Reason for this choice is cheaper than the next closest. Center hole will have to be fitted with a ring offset is greater but that may be fine. People are more than welcome to price shop these rotor hats and see what the lowest price you can find is...
The second choice is:
Rotor Bolt Circle:
8 x 7.00”
Wheel Lug Pattern:
5 x 4.50”
Hat offset:
0.72”
Stud Hole Diameter:
.50”
Center hole ID:
2.53”
Face Thickness:
.25”
Clearence ID:
5.90”
Mount hole:
5/16-18
Wilwood Part Number:
170-6947
This hat may end up being a better choice but it will need to be bored and so far is about $22 more... I'll know more when I take my wheel off and do some measuring with the bracket...
Anyway, if everyone wants to check out some prices and see what the best deal they've found is...
Do we have any idea what the all wilwood kit is going to look like cost wise?
I noticed that racing brakes has a decent deal on BBK too. 4-pot front w/ bigger 2-piece rotors and choice of slotted, drilled, or open slotted, also comes with hawk hps pads and goodridge braided lines.... upgraded 1-piece rotors in the rear larger and heat treated and slotted or drilled or open slot also w/ same pads and lines. All this for about 2k. Retains factory e-brake too. Anyone have experience with that kit?
I noticed that racing brakes has a decent deal on BBK too. 4-pot front w/ bigger 2-piece rotors and choice of slotted, drilled, or open slotted, also comes with hawk hps pads and goodridge braided lines.... upgraded 1-piece rotors in the rear larger and heat treated and slotted or drilled or open slot also w/ same pads and lines. All this for about 2k. Retains factory e-brake too. Anyone have experience with that kit?
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Originally Posted by BlackSpec02
Do we have any idea what the all wilwood kit is going to look like cost wise?
I noticed that racing brakes has a decent deal on BBK too. 4-pot front w/ bigger 2-piece rotors and choice of slotted, drilled, or open slotted, also comes with hawk hps pads and goodridge braided lines.... upgraded 1-piece rotors in the rear larger and heat treated and slotted or drilled or open slot also w/ same pads and lines. All this for about 2k. Retains factory e-brake too. Anyone have experience with that kit?
I noticed that racing brakes has a decent deal on BBK too. 4-pot front w/ bigger 2-piece rotors and choice of slotted, drilled, or open slotted, also comes with hawk hps pads and goodridge braided lines.... upgraded 1-piece rotors in the rear larger and heat treated and slotted or drilled or open slot also w/ same pads and lines. All this for about 2k. Retains factory e-brake too. Anyone have experience with that kit?
2K for 4 wheel kit??? That sounds amazing. I thought the fronts were over 1600 and the rears just used the stock calipers with larger red torque members... last time I looked, the rears were about 1000 and still using the stock calipers. Did you find this kit through a vendor??
yeah the rears use stock calipers and yeah its in the vendor for sale section on here for wheels brakes tires suspension...
but still even w/ stock rear calipers w/ larger rotors, a very good price.
but still even w/ stock rear calipers w/ larger rotors, a very good price.
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Originally Posted by BlackSpec02
yeah the rears use stock calipers and yeah its in the vendor for sale section on here for wheels brakes tires suspension...
but still even w/ stock rear calipers w/ larger rotors, a very good price.
but still even w/ stock rear calipers w/ larger rotors, a very good price.
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From: ATL-What U Know About That???
kbiz, you got anything on the brackets yet bro??
Read your post on the hats...Looks good to me
As far as the rears I'm sure it'll be a task trying to find the correct hat to work with the park brakes. So, why not do what arizonazcar is doing and just use a simple line lock for the rear?? Hey, nothing extra to do.. It's either pull up on a hand brake or flip a switch for the line lock..
Read your post on the hats...Looks good to me
As far as the rears I'm sure it'll be a task trying to find the correct hat to work with the park brakes. So, why not do what arizonazcar is doing and just use a simple line lock for the rear?? Hey, nothing extra to do.. It's either pull up on a hand brake or flip a switch for the line lock..
Originally Posted by atlsupdawg#2
Infantsam,
You provided a lot of good information in your post but yeah, I think the "engineering" comment was a bit of a slap in the face.
You provided a lot of good information in your post but yeah, I think the "engineering" comment was a bit of a slap in the face.
Anyway
I just got one each of these to look at. How do you think they would compare to the Wilwoods. They are somewhat cheap too but the cores are a problem. If cores weren't required they are under $100/each.
http://www.princeton.edu/~asad/zbrakes/pages/3.htm
I like the aluminum ones - they are very light (about 4-5 lbs naked) but the cast iron ones are likely stiffer (about 8-9 lbs). I don't know if Nissan switched because of cost or durablilty.
If they could be paired with a larger than stock one piece rotor....? Or two piece? It definitely would keep costs way down if you use a one piece rotor.
I'm trying to look over that hat data too - i have to get to my friend who has a brembo G.
Last edited by KNS Brakes; Dec 1, 2005 at 03:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by atlsupdawg#2
kbiz, you got anything on the brackets yet bro??
Read your post on the hats...Looks good to me As far as the rears I'm sure it'll be a task trying to find the correct hat to work with the park brakes. So, why not do what arizonazcar is doing and just use a simple line lock for the rear?? Hey, nothing extra to do.. It's either pull up on a hand brake or flip a switch for the line lock..
Read your post on the hats...Looks good to me
As far as the rears I'm sure it'll be a task trying to find the correct hat to work with the park brakes. So, why not do what arizonazcar is doing and just use a simple line lock for the rear?? Hey, nothing extra to do.. It's either pull up on a hand brake or flip a switch for the line lock..
I'll post some pics and dimensions for this bracket. Keep in mind that this bracket is 3/8" thick and is designed for the offset of Precision Brakes' rotor set-up. After inspecting the bracket, my feeling is that it's pretty thin even if it's 6061 Aluminum... I'd rather see it a bit beefier. I'll use the dimensions from this bracket to build a jig for fitting proper offset once hat and rotors are selected.
I think the Best idea is to wait until after January for the Wilwood rear kit to come out because all the parts will be available for individual purchase according to the Wilwood rep. So the rotor hat with drum that fits the stock shoes, etc will be available then. The other option I was thinking of was a mechanical Spot Caliper which is used a lot for e-brakes and I think would have more holding power than a line lock... but this would require more mechanical engineering (Additional bracket or combo bracket and linkage assembly). I'd like to be able to park on a hill, etc where line locks often aren't as firm...
I think the best way to go is to work on the front kit first and then the rears...
Last edited by kbiz; Dec 3, 2005 at 12:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by infantsam
Sorry -- not intended
Anyway
I just got one each of these to look at. How do you think they would compare to the Wilwoods. They are somewhat cheap too but the cores are a problem. If cores weren't required they are under $100/each.
http://www.princeton.edu/~asad/zbrakes/pages/3.htm
I like the aluminum ones - they are very light (about 4-5 lbs naked) but the cast iron ones are likely stiffer (about 8-9 lbs). I don't know if Nissan switched because of cost or durablilty.
If they could be paired with a larger than stock one piece rotor....? Or two piece? It definitely would keep costs way down if you use a one piece rotor.
I'm trying to look over that hat data too - i have to get to my friend who has a brembo G.
Anyway
I just got one each of these to look at. How do you think they would compare to the Wilwoods. They are somewhat cheap too but the cores are a problem. If cores weren't required they are under $100/each.
http://www.princeton.edu/~asad/zbrakes/pages/3.htm
I like the aluminum ones - they are very light (about 4-5 lbs naked) but the cast iron ones are likely stiffer (about 8-9 lbs). I don't know if Nissan switched because of cost or durablilty.
If they could be paired with a larger than stock one piece rotor....? Or two piece? It definitely would keep costs way down if you use a one piece rotor.
I'm trying to look over that hat data too - i have to get to my friend who has a brembo G.
The other option I've been researching is the Forged Billet Superlites... not the SL4's but the FSLs which are 4 pot calipers... they sell for $134, maybe less, each and are available in 1.75 and 1.38 pistons. These calipers are used on kits for a lot of large vehicles and sports cars but I need to get a hold of a Wilwood engineer to find out how well they can take the line pressure and how much deflection they can handle. BTW, these are the calipers that Precision Brakes Co. are using on their 4 pot front kit which is where the brackets I've got came from. These also use the same pads as most of wilwoods calipers including the SL6s...
glogan has this front kit... maybe he can chime in on how they've worked... I haven't heard anything bad about this kit.
Looking at the 300ZX calipers, it looks like the aluminum calipers are cast where as a forged billet design "Could" be stronger with less volume... But it's hard to say without brakeing a few calipers via bench testing
I'd love to have a box of Brembo calipers and Wilwoods just to test them past their limits. I don't know if the brembos are forged but I doubt it. They are pretty slim though which would imply that they aren't cast aluminum... but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
I would be very stoked if the Wilwood FSL calipers were a viable candidate for a 4pot front kit... at $134 this would be a killer savings for this project. I'd love to see this kit come under $700 for the front!!
This is the Front kit from Precision Brakes Co. which uses the FSL Calipers. Image is compliments of Precision Brakes Co sending me the Instruction Manual for the 350Z Kit...
If they're using hub rings then there's only one Wilwood hat it could be: Wilwood Part# 170-3265 which are around $75... They're also using 1.25" thick rotors so the brackets I have at 3/8" thickness might maintain proper offset depending on how the rotor is mounted. Also, I went by my favorite local metal shop and they have a bunch of T6 Aluminum bars at $2 per pound (scrap bin)... good fixins for bracket stock!
It's something I've tried to look at while this is going on.
These calipers/brackets/i piece rotors/pads could come in at a pretty low price.
These calipers/brackets/i piece rotors/pads could come in at a pretty low price.
Originally Posted by kbiz
Yeah, I like the idea of using these calipers... availability is a bit low it seems. I think Nissan probably changed to aluminum mainly because aluminum is concidered more race oriented even though the iron is probably stiffer... maybe weight too... hard to say if they experienced any increased handling... I doubt it was a choice based on heat transfer.
The caliper was originally aluminum - they they then switched to cast iron. I'd say cost was the driving issue - rememeber what was happening to sports cars back then (SUV)
The other option I've been researching is the Forged Billet Superlites... not the SL4's but the FSLs which are 4 pot calipers... they sell for $134, maybe less, each and are available in 1.75 and 1.38 pistons.
I was reading through the web catalog - I could not quite figure out the difference.
These calipers are used on kits for a lot of large vehicles and sports cars but I need to get a hold of a Wilwood engineer to find out how well they can take the line pressure and how much deflection they can handle. BTW, these are the calipers that Precision Brakes Co. are using on their 4 pot front kit which is where the brackets I've got came from. These also use the same pads as most of wilwoods calipers including the SL6s...
glogan has this front kit... maybe he can chime in on how they've worked... I haven't heard anything bad about this kit.
Looking at the 300ZX calipers, it looks like the aluminum calipers are cast where as a forged billet design "Could" be stronger with less volume... But it's hard to say without brakeing a few calipers via bench testing
Probably - I'm noty sure how big a deal that would be here.
I'd love to have a box of Brembo calipers and Wilwoods just to test them past their limits. I don't know if the brembos are forged but I doubt it. They are pretty slim though which would imply that they aren't cast aluminum... but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
The STi Brembos are not small. They are pretty big heavy pieces. A good place to have a little mass though.
I would be very stoked if the Wilwood FSL calipers were a viable candidate for a 4pot front kit... at $134 this would be a killer savings for this project. I'd love to see this kit come under $700 for the front!!
This is the Front kit from Precision Brakes Co. which uses the FSL Calipers. Image is compliments of Precision Brakes Co sending me the Instruction Manual for the 350Z Kit...
If they're using hub rings then there's only one Wilwood hat it could be: Wilwood Part# 170-3265 which are around $75...
Get that lathe fired up!
They're also using 1.25" thick rotors so the brackets I have at 3/8" thickness might maintain proper offset depending on how the rotor is mounted. Also, I went by my favorite local metal shop and they have a bunch of T6 Aluminum bars at $2 per pound (scrap bin)... good fixins for bracket stock!
The caliper was originally aluminum - they they then switched to cast iron. I'd say cost was the driving issue - rememeber what was happening to sports cars back then (SUV)
The other option I've been researching is the Forged Billet Superlites... not the SL4's but the FSLs which are 4 pot calipers... they sell for $134, maybe less, each and are available in 1.75 and 1.38 pistons.
I was reading through the web catalog - I could not quite figure out the difference.
These calipers are used on kits for a lot of large vehicles and sports cars but I need to get a hold of a Wilwood engineer to find out how well they can take the line pressure and how much deflection they can handle. BTW, these are the calipers that Precision Brakes Co. are using on their 4 pot front kit which is where the brackets I've got came from. These also use the same pads as most of wilwoods calipers including the SL6s...
glogan has this front kit... maybe he can chime in on how they've worked... I haven't heard anything bad about this kit.
Looking at the 300ZX calipers, it looks like the aluminum calipers are cast where as a forged billet design "Could" be stronger with less volume... But it's hard to say without brakeing a few calipers via bench testing
Probably - I'm noty sure how big a deal that would be here.
I'd love to have a box of Brembo calipers and Wilwoods just to test them past their limits. I don't know if the brembos are forged but I doubt it. They are pretty slim though which would imply that they aren't cast aluminum... but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
The STi Brembos are not small. They are pretty big heavy pieces. A good place to have a little mass though.
I would be very stoked if the Wilwood FSL calipers were a viable candidate for a 4pot front kit... at $134 this would be a killer savings for this project. I'd love to see this kit come under $700 for the front!!
This is the Front kit from Precision Brakes Co. which uses the FSL Calipers. Image is compliments of Precision Brakes Co sending me the Instruction Manual for the 350Z Kit...
If they're using hub rings then there's only one Wilwood hat it could be: Wilwood Part# 170-3265 which are around $75...
Get that lathe fired up!
They're also using 1.25" thick rotors so the brackets I have at 3/8" thickness might maintain proper offset depending on how the rotor is mounted. Also, I went by my favorite local metal shop and they have a bunch of T6 Aluminum bars at $2 per pound (scrap bin)... good fixins for bracket stock!
Willwoods fronts
So far the fronts have been great, good stopping power for 4pots. I installed them myself and precision brakes co actually gives you a step by step instructions on how to do the install. No problem thus far, but I think I would of save a lot more money If I went the same route Kbiz is going.
Kylan, let me know if you need anything else...
Kylan, let me know if you need anything else...
Outstanding!!! 
Lets keep this thread going. I'm really like to know the outcome. I'd be very interested in a group purchase to lower the cost of any of these parts. I love to see a $700-800 Big brake kit.
Please keep up posted on your results.
Lets keep this thread going. I'm really like to know the outcome. I'd be very interested in a group purchase to lower the cost of any of these parts. I love to see a $700-800 Big brake kit. Please keep up posted on your results.
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Originally Posted by glogan
So far the fronts have been great, good stopping power for 4pots. I installed them myself and precision brakes co actually gives you a step by step instructions on how to do the install. No problem thus far, but I think I would of save a lot more money If I went the same route Kbiz is going.
Kylan, let me know if you need anything else...
Kylan, let me know if you need anything else...
Also, I have the complete instructions for the front and rear kits from Precision Brakes so that makes it pretty easy too... being that it is a pretty complete step by step pdf.
I'm also wondering if there are any other manufacturers of rotor hats that we could look at. Wilwood also makes blank rotor hats that you can drill and bore yourself... I'm sure there are some other manufacturers out there...
Last edited by kbiz; Dec 6, 2005 at 10:26 AM.
