GATORZ

iTrader: (17)

I installed the SPC Camber Rods and Toe Bolts over the weekend. Very easy install. My question is about the alignment. I DON'T have the feathering problem on the front. Should I tell the shop not to touch the front and just do the back or do they need to do all 4 to make it right. Should the rear be set to what the manual says or has someone found better specs to use. Track wheels with OEM size tires. Car is NOT lowered. Also do they remove the center caps to attach alignment machine? Been a long time since I seen an alignment done.

Any help or thoughts greatly appreciated.

Dan

protocav

iTrader: (3)

why did you put the toe bolts in if your car is not lowered? did you simply install them, or did you grind out the material that is needed for proper fitment?

myz8a4re

iTrader: (2)

if your not getting any inner tire wear or feathering on the fronts you can leavie it alone. you can tell your alignment tech to only align the rears if you wish. but you can get an entire printout of your front & rear settings when finalized. please do this & post your results as id like to see your front settings.......

-justin

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

i dont think u can really align the front besides toe.

anywho, all they will touch is front toe, rear toe and rear camber, and thrust angle.

the alignment machines i use bolt onto the wheel itself, no need to remove the centercaps. i usually alwasy align the car by reading what the tires are telling me with a littleguideline from the manual, or what the customer wants.

my question is that why did you upgrade to these even if you arent lowered, do you plan on lowering? is your rear end so out of spec they cant get it back?

GATORZ

iTrader: (17)

I had the 6 spoke 18x8's on my car(touring 6mt) with nitto 555's. I bought and powdercoated a set of track rays and polished the lip. Put on a set of BFG KDW 2's. Nothing changed except the wheels. Old ones off Rays on. The outside of the rear tire was not even touching the ground. My old wheels/tires had a small amout of wear on the inside(rears) but it wasn't enough that I would have ever given it a second thought. If I took them off the wheel you would not be able to tell which side was inside. My fronts that I had on do not have ANY (NONE)feathering. Maybe the Rays will feather really bad. I don't know for sure. I can't notice a difference like I did on the rears. I just wanted the upgrade since I was getting the alignment and it looked so far out of camber. Only $219. I did elongate the toe holes with a dremel tool. Very easy to do. I may lower some day but not any time soon. One thing I know for sure.....the rears are definetly out of alignment now. My main thing is I don't want to mess up the front and cause the feathering. I don't have the pull to the right either. I have a 2003 that I got in Nov. 2002 and it has never been back to the dealer. I have been very lucky. The only TSB I could take advantage of is the springs for the hatch to open properly. I got a friend's dad to get me the replacment Bose amp an we put it in.

I'll post before and after specs on Monday when it's done.

Are the Nissan specs good or should I have them set to something that has been found to work better????

Sorry that got a little off topic and long,

THANKS,
Dan

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

i c i c. well, the reason why the outer edge looks like it isnt touching the groud is because you made the wheels .5in longer which creates that sort of thing. i dont theink the fronts should feather at all, and i think the feathering is because of the dampers and not the alignment.

the nissan specas are ok. i actualyy set my rear to have a wee bit of more negative camber and slightly more toe in. but that suits the way I drive. i would recommend that you have it set to nissan specs and after 1k miles you go in and have your guyys "read" the tires.

be sure to take note of your tread depth before the alignment and re measure it when you visit the ship again. they sould also be able to tell if you have excessive toe wear just by feeling the tire.
if you have anymore questions, just post up

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

The rear specs per Nissan on OEM hight seem fine. I have never heard anybody say they are bad. Camber and Toe are adjustable OEM, but now you have more range, so more power to you. Definetly would like to see your specs when is done, please. Just tell the guy to print it for you.

As stated, all you did on the switch was add .5" of rim widht on the rear, which should have nothing to do with your alignment. It might look like the outside edge is up, but that might just be to the eye. My rears wear out in 10 to 12K, but so far all the shops tell me they are perfectly aligned and it is just the "heavy foot" syndrome... They wear perfectly even accross the tire.

GATORZ

iTrader: (17)

Thanks guys. I was aware of the extra .5 width but didn't think it would be that noticable. The $70 for alignment is worth it if I get a few extra miles and a better feel to the car. I do drive aggressive and could feel a wiggling (word) in the rear after the new wheels and tires. I have brand new (30 miles) tires so I can go with the factor spec for tread depth. I will get before and after specs on the alignment. I think I will tell them not to touch the front unless it is way off the new TSB specs that I belive are now 0.0 for front toe. I'm fairly up on mechanics and always do my own installs but this is my first time getting this deep on alignment issues. Amazing how I could feel the difference in the rear with just the track Rays wheel change. Do not like the loose feel it had. Would more negetive camber or toe adjustment get rid of the loose feel?


Dan

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

I adjusted to reduce camber and it feels looser than before, so I would assume based on my experience that a little bit of camber is good on the rear. The tires wore evenly both times, so you can have some camber and not eat the tires unevenly. I just don't have a precise value.

myz8a4re

iTrader: (2)

the camber issue is a tough call IMO. i originally left my camber at -1.7(left) & -1.6(right) in the rear & i started noticing slightly more inside edge wear. nothing real bad but i really wanted a little more even tire wear. so i had my alignment tech get me back to -1.2(left) & -1.4(right). i couldnt get anymore positive than that as i was out of toe adjustment at that point even with the adjustable rear arms. im going to order those toe bolts that SGP offers just to have the flexability if needed.......i seem to always say this in these type of threads but it really depends on what you want more, better/even tire wear or better handling. you can sacrafice handling a little to get the most from your tires(wear wise) or you can sacrafice some tire wear to get the most of your aggressive driving style. some say you can have the best of both worlds, but you will sacrafice one or the other when making alignment adjustments. once you move your toe in slightly and/or move your camber slightly in the pos direction you will feel the difference. so the decision needs to be made on whats most important to you. it appears to me that tire wear is more important to most of the members that start these type of threads just by thier opening statements. then once they start getting replies they seem to start worrying about handling......i dont auto-x my z but i do like to do some spirited driving on the street. i did notice my turn in & cornering ability was slighty reduced after my latest alignment but it really isnt bad at all. the car still feels pretty good & i have peace of mind knowing ill be getting the most from my 19" t1s tires(that i dont want to replace anytime soon).......

-justin

myz8a4re

iTrader: (2)

there are 3 threads going on right now that have suspension/alignment topics being discussed. i figured i would link the other 2 to each thread for those interested to check them out. heres the other 2 currently sharing discussions:

How to permanatly fix Nissans problem
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....8&goto=newpost

Solve Tire Feathering
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....7&goto=newpost

-justin

GATORZ

iTrader: (17)

Thanks myz8a4re and sloponte for all your input. I've learned more than I ever thought I would want to know about alignments this week. I will once again probably know more about it than the service manager....that's nothing new . I think I will lean toward the handling and give up some tire wear. The -1.4 would be good. I only put 8k a year on the car so I could still get 2 summers out of a set of tires.

I will post my before and after specs tomorrow evening after I get back from the dealer. The front before may tell something but the backs are WAY out right now.

So that would be 0.0 toe front and they can't adjust camber.
About -1.4 camber in rear.
Factory toe setting for the rear.

What is the thrust setting I read about????

Thanks again,
Dan

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

basically the thrust angle is the difference between the two rear toe angles. say your rear toe on the left is .1 and th right is .6, you will have a .5 thrust angle.
anything aboe a .25 thrust angle will cause your car to pull.

GATORZ

iTrader: (17)

Thanks daytona350z.

When you say pull you mean left or right....not more traction to pull off the line. Just making sure I understand.

So less than .25 thrust angle.
Is there a maximum I would want to see on the toe setting?
Is there a + and - for toe? Or just +.
I just want to have as many answers as I can so I can combat the dealer bull**** speech.

Dan

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

yes, i meant the pull left or right.
teo should be equal on both sides and yes it can go positive or negative.
i just set my rear toe to the middle and worked from there.
hope all this helps.

GATORZ

iTrader: (17)

Well I went for the alignment at the dealer today. What a joke. They have my steering wheel out of alignment. Another words not straight across anymore where you put your hands. I guess they tried to better the 0.05 toe on the right side and messed the steering wheel up. They said they couldn't get the toe(rear) in even with the SPC toe bolts. Didn't charge me and now it worst than it was. The driver side rear tire is not even touching the ground on the outside and the passenger side looks almost flat. They said if I put the stock parts back they will take care of it. What a joke this day was. Just a tad irritated. I only elongated the toe bolt hole on the inboard side(middle) like the instruction on here said. They had it pinned to the outside(tire side) and couldn't get it close. I read that it should never have to go to the outside.

left rear was -0.04 camber and 0.12 toe
right rear was -1.07 camber and 0.39 toe
total toe 0.51
Told you it was out from the parts install.

HERE ARE THE BEFORE THEY F***ED IT UP SPECS.
DON'T HAVE ANY AFTER SPECS BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T GET IT RIGHT.

Just the front because the back was crazy out.

these are in degrees and feet. I guess that is what they call it

Caster left 8.52
right 8.45

Camber left -0.20
right -1.13

Toe left 0.03
right 0.05
total 0.08
ANY HELP ON WHAT WENT WRONG????
I guarantee I did everything per the instruction on the install of the camber rods and the toe bolts. The rods had the exact amount at both ends and everything.
Thanks,

Dan

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

humm, interesting. can you post some pics of the rear end to show the difference from side to side.

thats wierd cuz i was able to align my car spot on the specs without any teo or camber bolts/rods. may wanna take it to a dedicated shop that deals with alignments.

myz8a4re

iTrader: (2)

kind of hard to get a before & after when you are posting your rear after results with your front before results....doesnt help any to be honest!
but the fact that they adjusted the rear left camber to -.04 is nutty as well as setting the other side to -1.07. if anything they should shoot for equal measurements on each side. they have no idea what they are doing. too bad your not local, i have an excellent alignment tech with 30 years of experience! he wouldnt allow me to drive off the rack untill he got somthing worth driving on......your local dealer needs to be shot....go to your nearest local firestone & get an alignment, ask nissan for a refund of what they charged you, thats not acceptable for a 35k sports car, especially at a dealer! best of luck!

-justin

GATORZ

iTrader: (17)

My car was never back to the dealer before yesterday. It will NEVER go back again. I was full of doubt about taking it in. I no longer have any doubt. The guy running the alignment machine would have had a hard time running a calculator. Living in the arm pit of America makes it hard to find a good place to get this done. I've called so many places it's crazy. All I hear is we don't have the specs for a 350Z. I'll find one eventually. It stinks being **** about having your car worked on. Sorry for venting.

I'm sure I'll have feathering now. Being that my steering wheel is turned an inch to the left to go straight.

I do appreciate all the help you guy have given me.

I don't have any pics of the rear with me. I feel confident saying that I had it just as good by eye as they did with the machine. Does anyone have pics of what a good alignment on the rear looks like? How far off the ground are your rears on the outside edge? I don't remember the tires being off the ground on the outside. The extra 1/2 inch of width can't make that much difference....can it?

Should I put the OEM parts back in since I'm not lowered and shouldn't need the extra adjustment the SPC parts give me?

THANKS,
Dan

konspec

iTrader: (4)

I'm def. interested in seeing this result. I just got the spc kit, hav'nt installed it yet but i was just getting ready to ask the same question. I guess i'm taking mine to a performance shop.