VN_350z

iTrader: (3)

Why is it the Stoptech caliper look so much similar to Brembo?

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

Psst... this was answered already


I hope the following helps BremboGuy as well as all the Stoptech guys on this site:

The way it sounds to me, as an objective viewer, is that Brembo is far more concerned with research and marketing for F1 and expensive, fancy cars. It sounds to me like their front kit for the 350Z just happens to fit, and their engineers can't be bothered to make a rear kit because they think it wouldn't perform well if they modified it to fit the suspension (I assume by clocking it away from 3:00). It sounds like their manufacturing process is only meant for large scale production which is GOOD for making OEM parts but BAD for making upgrade kits and aftermarket parts. It would cost too much to modify their manufacturing process for specific applications for 350Z or other cars.

Now I'm seeing that these "little guys," namely Stoptech, put a lot of research into the cars that they sell kits for. They have manufacturing capabilities to produce the right amount of product to meet the demand. Their researchers are not too busy studying F1 cars and Ferarris to look at the 350Z and make a great kit, be it 2 whl, 4 whl, 4 pot, 6 pot.

As it stands, it seems like Brembo could care less about the 350Z except for making OEM brakes, which I'm sure they do well. However, I'd rather go with the little guy who *cares* rather than the big corporate guy who just happened to get the contract with Nissan. Now I'm sure there's nothing wrong with Brembo, and it's fine that they're more concerned with other aspects of research rather than niche marketing to aftermarket-part-enthusiasts.

This reminds me a lot about the kind of stuff that Microsoft talks about at conferences versus what "Average Joes" are doing at home with Linux. Microsoft constantly says how great their products are, but they only make improvements once every 4-5+ years. Whereas Linux guys constantly adapt and make modifications to the operating system (kernel) themselves.

Microsoft is good for the masses (similar to OEM spec brakes from Brembo) but they just don't go into detail when it comes to specific customer needs.

Whereas if you need to do something specific with your operating system, and Windows XP cannot do it, well that's just TOO BAD! Microsoft is WAY TOO BUSY to fix certain issues, or add support for X or Y, because they're a big corporation that spends $50+ million/yr in research. Whereas you can just go onto a Linux forum, ask some guys for help, and get the job done in 15 mins even if you know jack **** about computer programming.

Am I reading that Brembo is a great company? Yes. Am I reading that Stoptech is a great company? Yes. But I certainly would appreciate some 350z-targeted research if someone's going to come in and say "Brembo is simply the best" when it comes to 350Z braking systems.

This is how I am reading into all of this. I hope I do not have too many misconceptions in here, because I am trying to base this post off of what I've been reading going on between you guys.

At the very least, I hope it helps to see what a potential customer sees.

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

Weird, it almost sounds like the OEM Brembo setup doesn't exist...

A system that is more than adequate for track use. Not many 350Z Track owners actually upgrade their Brembo brakes, other than pads and fluids, for track use...

What started as an interresting topic is quickly becoming boring and redundant.

tekk

i think you captured my feelings pretty well.

Row2K

iTrader: (10)

Lets not forget about AP racing and alcon , VRT tracks their cars heavily and apparently track after track session the 6/4 pot front back setup is proving itself very sucessful...id like to know if stoptech considers their product superior to the AP racing setup as they do in regards to brembo.

BremboGuy

It actually sounds to me like I'm either not explaining myself correctly or that people have already absorbed what the "other" companies are saying and taking it as fact.

First, the 2 kits that we offer for the 350Z were specifically designed and engineered specifically for the vehicle. It did not just happen to fit.
Hats and brackets require specific engineering to each vehicle to fit properly.
Besides having to follow a criteria regarding the bracket design and hat design we also take a look at popular aftermarket wheel fitments as well as fitments with OE wheels.

Second, would be the selection of the caliper to maintain or improve the optimum brake bias of the vehicle. [FACT]Brembo has more caliper options than any other company in the industry.

****close to 200 calipers in total... specifically designed for the High Performance or Racing division***

2-piston 4-piston 6-piston and 8-piston calipers. [FACT]And NOT one caliper body for each where we machine different piston sizes into. Each caliper is specifically designed for an application or range of use.

Third, Brembo has proprietary software that chooses the piston area and disc dimensions according to each specific application. The specs of the factory vehicle and braking system are entered into the system and brake bias is calculated on series of multiple curves. The curve monitors everything from initial application of the brake to thresh hold braking calculating weight transfers during straight line braking as well as cornering.
****This is done for each vehicle****
Unlike some companies who drive out to an airfield with a few calipers and keeps switching them until one works better than the other.

Fourth, Brembo has the strictest manufacturing and engineering requirements in the industry. ZERO room for flaws or failures directly related to their products.

I personally bothered engineering myself for months for a rear kit for the 350Z. The head engineer in Brembo NA was a 350Z owner from day one. He wanted it as well.

Bottom line on this issue is that a rear kit would 1) have offered minimal performance increase but great aesthetics 2) been offered at close to $1900 3) not been properly designed within Brembo standards.

The great thing is that there are other companies out there who do make a front and rear brake system for your vehicle. You do have an option.
No one is forced to buy Brembo.


AND the last thing.
In the High Performance Catalog we have over 450 Gran Turismo Applications.
We don't ignore what the market demands.
If it is physically possible...and there is a demand...AND the design of the kit falls within Brembo's standards...WE MAKE IT.

I have more High Performance applications for Honda's that I do for Ferrari.

I have 2 separate applications for the 350Z because we were asked for both.
Some of you use you factory 17's at the track... our 13.1" fits perfectly
Some of you run 17's or 19's... our 14" is available to you.

tekk

brembo guy- are you claiming that whether or not someone is starting out with oem brembos on the Z/G, the best aftermarket setup currently available is simply the addition of your 14" front fitment kit?

Nano

iTrader: (1)

Exactly... couldn't have been clearer.

The people who track their car and actually would need a full Front/Rear upgrade is marginal (even more marginal for people with OEM brembo). And if a OEM brembo needs an upgrade, it would be only for the front. Most of the people who buy these Front/Rear upgrades don't track their cars... and even Most people who track their cars have absolutely overkill systems.

Nano

iTrader: (1)

Do you even track your car? Application depends on the use, there is no "best" or "perfect". The Brembo front kit is built to exacting standards and does a great flawless job for the LARGE majority of users, even on the track. For that odd minority that needs a rear upgrade, you can buy stoptech, rotora, alcon, Ap racing, wilwood, etc.... How hard is it to understand?

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

This just strikes me as funny because its definitely not unheard of that quite a few people cooking their rear brakes on the track, melting dust boots, etc. Furthermore, you already have a rear brake combo available on the 350Z, it's called the track model rear OEM-brembos. If you're saying you can't improve upon the rear OEM-brembos, fine. I'm sure they're more than ample for most people. Then why not sell the OEM rears together as a kit with the GT fronts for people with the non-track model 350z? It's "weird" to see a big company like Brembo come in here and say, "well, our competetitors products ain't bad if you need a rear kit, so end of discussion!"


So it seems you're referring to upgrade from NON-(OEM)Brembo when you say that adding a front kit is more than ample performance. I'm not going to suggest to come up with a product that beats oem brembo front and rear.

Still, it seems from reading your posts that while Brembo equipment is pretty "uber", you guys are still too large-scale to make something simple like a rotor upgrade for OEM brembos... something slotted or drilled for example. Not enough interest?

Whereas if I go with a company like stoptech, I know they have made rotor upgrades for OEM brembos, which (if I am to believe their claims) is superior in terms of airflow and possibly weight savings?

BremboGuy

If you're asking my opinion...here it is.

Best in terms of what???

Quality - Yes
Performance - Yes
Price - NO (There are cheaper alternatives)
Looks - LOL !!!
Proper Engineering - YES
***my personal opinion, drawn with facts against all of the "competition"***

Again...using the word "best" makes it incredibly subjective.
I know allot of people using products other than Brembo, and they are perfectly happy with their decision. This is the "best" for them.
I'm sure there a allot of people driving Hyundai's that love them and would recommend them to their friends.

BremboGuy

For the guys with OEM Brembos I usually reccomend.

-Brembo Sport Rotors (Drilled OR Slotted)
-Upgraded pads
&
-Goodridge Braided lines

This is more upgrade than most guys will ever need.
Any one who is exceding the performance level of the OEM components has many options for brake upgrades. Brembo is only one company. There are at least 2 other spoken of within this thread and countless others that no one has spoken of yet.

I answered this a little earlier directed towards jritt's same question.

OEM is OEM...High Performance is High Performance
In High Performance we don't have access to the OEM items.
You, the consumer, can actually buy the Track Model rear calipers from Nissan relatively easily.

***and I never said that the "competetitors products ain't bad". I simply stated that it still is and always has been another option if you desire the look***


We do make a rotor upgrade for OEM Brembo's.
Drilled Front replacement discs
Slotted Front replacement discs
&
Drilled Rear replacement discs
Slotted Rear replacement discs

We simply dont offer a 2pc. version that is comaptable with the OE calipers.

Brembo Gran Turismo Brake Systems...as well as Sport Replacement Rotors are readily available from a number of current sponsors on this forum.

buzzardmountain

iTrader: (17)

Well BremboGuy I hope you indeed are able to stick around. It's nice having someone linked to a particular company that could answer some questions and give some insight.

The only opinions we have now are .............., well you know.

I hope you are able to stick around and don't receive a PM from a Mod or one coming by in threads citing TOU and banning you from this forum.

The more info we have as consumers the better.

I have the info I need on Stoptech, from JRitt, .................well you know.

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

I’m I right in assuming the OE Brembo products are proprietary to the car manufacturers that employ them? And that the relative separation of the OE and High Perf division is what limits the availability of replacement rotors for the OE Brembo setup?

At 450$ ea for front rotors is silly compared to the Sport replacement rotors that sell for 340$ a pair. Unfortunately, the sport rotors are only available slotted or drilled, which is too bling for my use.

This is why I went for a StopTech 2pc replacement rotor. It was cheaper, is of good quality built and above all, it’s available with plain surface. (They still where a special order, but at no extra cost).

BremboGuy

You are absolutely correct. They are proprietary. And you are limited to purchasing OEM parts form the OEM manufacturer. Same goes for Porsche, Ferrari, Mitsubishi, Acura or any other OEM that Brembo provides for.

Brembo does offer the Sport rotors at less that what the dealership charges for OEM. This is usually a no-brainer for most people since the aftermarket version also offers a small level of performance improvement.

As for it being to "bling" that's personal preference.
And that's exactly what I've been trying to tell everyone
You guys have many different options out there.
Range of product is good for the consumer.
As long as the information being spread is truthfull then you can make and educated decision.

You chose one that you were happy with. That's awesome.

I'm not here to try and sell product's.
I'm just trying to clear up mis-information or answer questions that are being asked.

Bubble

iTrader: (50)

Amen. At least, this will shut them off from being BS around and attack other manf.

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

How do you figure? You're posting part numbers and prices in various threads, you're talking about how wonderful the manufacturer that you claim to work for is, you're recommending 'your' product to customers, and you're posting spam videos about your products. I'd say that's a pretty solid sales effort. How exactly is that not trying to sell product? I guess if you say that's the case though, then it must be true.

Bubble,
On a side note...I have some swamp land in Florida that I'm getting ready to sell. Let me know if you're interested...I'll give you a really good deal. I'll even throw in some titanium wheel weights and muffler bearings.

BremboGuy

I understand your concern since you are trying to represent and sell a product here.
I'll get out of your way when people are asking you questions.
But if someone asks me a question, I will be there to answer it.

The video has been removed.

The reference to buying Brembo from **** **** has been deleted.

And the part #'s were hopefully a usefull tool for people to use when ordering parts from one of the many advertising sponsors that are Brembo Dealers.
And I just deleted those.


On a pleasant note...
Titanium wheel weights....that was really funny...I've really never heard that before.

Row2K

iTrader: (10)

a lil touchy aren't we ?...grow some thicker skin and accept the fact that there are other competitiors/manufacturers out there and that they may or may not have a better product and this might come as a shock , THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO SELL THEIR PRODUCT TOO !!!! WOAH !!!

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

1. My skin is fairly thick.
2. You are wrong. Through sponsorship, we have paid thousands of dollars over the past couple of years for the right to advertise and sell on this forum. That money goes towards maintaining this site, so owners like you can have a fun place to go and talk about their car. Brembo/RaceTech has not done this. That means until they pay for sponsorship, they DO NOT have the right to sell or promote their products. Wouldn't you be fairly agitated if you paid for this right, and then your primary competitor came along and got the same rights and access for free? Not very fair, is it?
If they decide that they want to spend their time, energy, and money on this forum, then I wouldn't have any issue with that. I think the forum members always benefit from more manufacturer involvement + technical insights, etc.
It's really not that complicated. IF in fact BremboGuy is affiliated with Brembo, all he has to do is cut a check to the forum administrator, and then he can go nuts with his awe-inspiring F1 videos. Unfortunately, despite claiming to be a Brembo employee or affiliate and using words like, "our product" in discussion threads, he has denied affiliation with Brembo to the forum administrators. He's trying to have it both ways, which really doesn't work that well. He's trying to catch a free ride at everyone else's expense.
All of that said, the more he posts, the more it becomes clear to me that he really has no experience, actual technical knowledge, or affiliation with Brembo. He's just regurgitating marketing fluff, and all of the info he has posted could be pulled directly from a Brembo catalog. He's just some guy pretending to be "in the know." Oh well. Shame on me for taking the bait. Just be careful when taking his 'expert' opinion and advice. I'm glad someone out there has the free time to do something like this. It is kind of funny.