I'm not doubting you, but can you point to some data that backs up your superiority claims???

 

AP racing all the way

 

+1 For the budget and what the OP is trying accomplish I would suggest him going StopTech, but would really like see something backing up the product vs. AP Racing besides a sales pitch.

 

You wont find an AP rep to back up their product becuase there aren't any in the US to do so. We have caliper deflection data on our website here if you are interested:

http://www.stoptech.com/products/BBK...calipers.shtml

You can make the argument that since the data was collected by us, it is biased, but you will also find that the same data simply isnt available from the other manufacturers. Im in no way bashing AP racing calipers since they are great products, but if you are going to say they are better, especially for the 350Z, please let us know why.

As already stated, we have stiffer calipers, better pad retention methods, better pad selection, and the ability to size pistons specifically for any application since the piston bores are machined in house on our CNC machines. We also have full street compatibility by utilizing external dust boots along with internal piston seals to maximize the life of the rubber parts and reduce rebuild intervals. Our standard, off the shelf calipers that anyone can buy are currently installed on the championship leading teams in both World Challenge Touring Car (Tri-piont Mazdas driven by Randy Pobst and Jeff Altenburg) and Grand Am Cup Koni Challenge GS (Turner Motorsport BMW drive by Bill Auberlen), both of which are the top levels of production based road racing in the US. Turner Motorsport just won the most recent Koni Challenge race at 3 Rivers in Canada which is widely accepted as the one of the hardest braking tracks on the schedule. They were able to brake as hard as needed all race long while the 2nd place Porsche using a competitors super trick full race setup announced in the post race interviews that they had brake issues all day long. We have a similar press release on our website, but in order to show that we are not embellishing, here is a direct link to the Grand-Am website where the comments were originally posted:

http://www.grand-am.com/News/Article.asp?ID=8999

Here is the press release on our website covering the same story:

http://www.stoptech.com/company_info..._3Rivers.shtml

This is not just a sales pitch. All of us at StopTech are hardcore track guys who push harder on track than most of our customers do. If there was a weakness in our product line, we would know about it...not just through our own extensive testing, not just through our race teams, but by getting our own cars on the track and beating the crap out of them. When it comes to questions about pad selection, what kit to buy, and when replacement parts are needed, we are working off of 1st hand knowledge of the product and what its capabilites are.

I personally drive a modded 2006 STi and have been to 8 track days just this year with more scheduled. Feel free to check out the in-car videos from a few of the events I have been to here...you can see that I am not holding back in any way:

http://www.youtube.com/profile_video...esmoothsti&p=r

We talk about cars all day long at work, then go home and wrench on our cars, post on forums and go to local car meets. We do this because we love it and truly feel that we offer the most well rounded brake system on the market. We also know what its like to buy an upgrade to find that it doesnt fit right, doesnt meet out expectations, or has bad tech support from the manufacturer and how much all of those situations can suck. Our collective experiences, passions and beliefs are in every box and it shows more and more every day as we continue to grow as a company. In fact, we just announced last week that our new Carbon Ceramic Brake Systems are featured as standard on the new $300K Callaway Speedster Hypercar as well as being options on all of the Callaway Corvettes sold:

http://www.stoptech.com/company_info...peedster.shtml

We are also technical partners with industry giants like TRD, Saleen, Roush and others who have chosen us over the competion for the exact reasons stated earlier. We would much rather have a customer buy some pads and rotors for their stock calipers than drop a few thousand on a BBK if it isnt needed. I can't tell you how many people I have talked out of a BBK in the 2 years I have been with the company since it just didnt make sense for them to buy it. We are not all about the bottom line and making a few extra bucks, but if you want to tack on all the extras to get the parts that you have wet dreams about, we will gladly help you choose the parts that will make them come true.

-Erik-

 

So any existing kit can now use Carbon Ceramic rotors? Nice. What's the price difference between the carbon and iron rotors?

 

The basic numbers for the moment are as follows:

4 wheel 6 piston front, 4 piston rear 355x32mm kit $14,999

To convert an existing 4 wheel 355x32mm 4 wheel iron kit to ceramic, $9,999. That would include the rotors, new hats and Carbon Ceramic specific drive pin hardware and front and rear brake pads desigend for use with the ceramic rotors.

 

Wow, that is pricey. I thought it said the ceramic rotors were a direct swap with the current iron ones. I guess you need new hats, etc like you listed.

Isn't the Porsche PCCB option for 997's only like $8k?

 

anybody use those winners with 2 calipers on each rotar?

 

The hats are the same but the new drive pin hardware installation is special and for the moment, we are only shipping with new hats to make sure everything is installed to spec.

As to the Porsche PCCB pricing, they are an $8K option on top of the existing brakes on a new car, but if you were to go to the Porsche parts counter and buy the complete setup, it would be upwards of $20K

 

There would be no point unless the calipers being used didnt have enough torque output to get the job done by themselves. All the torque needed can be generated with one caliper and the added weight of a 2nd caliper, not to mention the increased initial cost and buying 2 sets of pads make it very undesireable.

 

like others said if its not for tracks and just for hard driving streets with looks just get some rotas.

 

That sounds like something off of a Formula 1 car but a company by the name of Componus is producing a dual caliper set-up. A claimed 30% improvement in stopping power is gained with the system.

 

Since nobody really answered the question, I'll post it again. Not trying to start a pissing match here, but Stoptech has gotten on here and provided some informative posts with specific reasons why they think they make the best product for our Z's and G's. So can those of you who have posted that the AP Racing BBK is the best, PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY OR HOW it is superior to all the other big brake kits. I'm curious and would like a better explanation than "they simply make the best product". Thanks.

 

Go to an audio forum and see if Bowers and Wilkins will go on the board and claim they ave the best speakers. They will never do that, but Bose will and they suck azz. Do you see any Endless or Project Mu reps on here backing their product. Superior brands let their products speak for themselves and don't spend millions each year on advertising, they invest their money in their prodcts. My point is not that Stoptech's suck, because they clearly make a fine product.
My only point is it is absurd to listen to a sales pitch from the manufacturer and make a decision based solely on the pitch.
I based my decision on what I read from the AP Racing site and unbiased opinions on their calipers. Even Brembo reps stated to me that AP's calipers are some of the best out there when price isn't considered.
I think the onus is on the Stoptech rep to prove his claims and not vice versa. He is claiming superiority so he should prove it with direct comparisons to the AP kit. So far, all I see is fancy words and brochure jargon. There must be a direct comparison since a rep from the company is claiming superiority correct??

Here's a pretty powerful statement of fact from an unbiased source....

 

that's a factory option though, ever try to buy it as a standalone kit?

 

Face of the matter is, those claiming it, can't back it up, because they really have no basis for true comparison other than repeating marketing info.

We're an AP Racing Dealer, have been for YEARS, and I used an AP kit on my 350Z, use them all the time on customer cars, and even built myself a custom AP based kit (rotors and calipers) for my Datsun. We've also done quite a bit of work with the Stoptech kits, on a wide variety of cars from Z's to Bimmers and everything in between. I can say, honestly, there is not one that is "better", just a different choice - both are comparable to one another. Now, when the discussion turns to replacement part costs, Stoptech takes it, the AP replacement part stuff is very very pricey.

 

I like you man, but if you want, I'd be happy to have an Endless rep come on here today, and post his views. But what would it prove? Even if all the manufacturers were hear, touting their own product, what more would it be than, at least in the readers eyes, as giant commercials? Let's me realistic. What else do you expect them to say except "we believe our stuff is the best".

I actually USE all the kits out there, and have owned them on personal cars, and more customer cars than I can count over the years, and since we sell em all, I hold 0 loyalties. As such, I'm in a better position than most to truly say if one were superior or not.

Brembo OWNS AP Racing...what would you expect them to say about AP..that they make a crappy product? Come on...

What sort of direct comparison would satisfy you? How would you even go about testing it? It's nearly an impossible thing to quantify.

ALL the kits on the market are decent....some are vastly better than others. Having USED them all at this point, except Wilwood (at least on a Z), I can say in all honesty that the AP/Brembo/Stoptech/Endless are far and away the easiest to get replacement parts for. Stoptech has the benefit of typically less expensive replacement parts. Rotora is a royal pain to get replacement pads for (very few options, other than the ones they sell), Endless has a ton of pad options (replacement rotors can get pricey, but then again, its a top tier priced kit), Project Mu has proven to me to be difficult to get replacement pads and parts for (and uses a funky pad design anyway, so I know of no other options out there other than their own stuff).

Anyway, that is my $.02 based on using these kits, not just reading brochures, or repeating what someone told me "at the track", or in a bar conversation, etc, etc.

If looks are your main concern, I'd get a used Brembo OEM kit from a track model. Rotora and Wilwood are the least expensive BBK's typically. Expect it difficult to find replacement pads for Rotora (ie not alot of options). I can't comment on Wilwood, as we don't use them. Rotora kits, in every car I've used them on, have a much spongier pad feel vs other kits out there. Why, I can't say, but in comparison to the other big players, its the first thing you notice.

If you're going for more the performance side of things, personally, I feel nothing bang for the buck beats Stoptech. AP stuff is also fantastic, great build quality, and a TON of aftermarket pad options, running from full street to full race, from virtually every major pad manufacturer on the market. Same goes for Stoptech, same goes for Brembo, same goes for Endless. I personally chose Endless for my own car when replacing my AP kit, one because of the name and custom options they offered, 2 because I know the owners of Endless USA, and they are great guys, and will literally stay up with me till all hours when I have tech questions, etc that need answering. As a vendor, racer, etc, that is worth its weight in GOLD to me. But, their kits are expensive, and as such, not for everyone. The Brembo stuff is also fantastic. Biggest downside, is that up until recently they had no 6 piston option (not that its really a concern, but retail customers always assume more is better, when for 99% of them, they would never know the difference), and AFAIK, Brembo has no rear kit offered, so from an aesthetics point, that's a minus.

Again though, all this stuff has been discussed to death in previous threads over the past 3-4 years.

 

I would not refute anything you say because you have experience with both kits. I thought your post above your last one was the final say.
My issue was with the StopTech rep claiming his were better without backing anything up.

And I agree bang for the buck Stoptech would be the way to go, but that isn't what the vendor said. He said Stoptechs were SUPERIOR.

I like you too.....