i think the only thing you need is the specific-length bolts... make sure you get all the hardware, not just the calipers and rotors.

i could be mistaken tho... i dont have an 07. but i did sell my 03 track brembos to an 03 non-brembo and everything bolted right in.

one quick way is to check the steering knuckle where the brakes attach to. check the part number on your 07 and compare it to an 03.

chances are if they did no resign the part numbers would be the same.

 

None that I have seen at all recently have gone that cheap.

Expect to pay ~$2k.

 

Ok...i'm an engineer...let me get this straight...you're saying that in a vacuum friction doesn't exist...are you kidding me. there are 3 ways to transfer energy: convection, radiation, conductive...

the truth is the brakes would heat soak in a matter of no time because radiation "glowing rotors" and convection wouldn't be sufficient to cool them...but they would creat friction, and brake...they'd just melt really fast.

[QUOTE=I was stating the easy to understand basic, I figured there was no need for details.[/QUOTE]

I understand...and i hate to be the asshat trying to sound like a no it all...but i know a lot of people who read these forums and then make mods with bad assumptions.



[QUOTE=BBK main concept is that they have a larger surface area, to absorb and dissipate heat. Their slots and drills on the face are used to generate heat(friction) quickly for faster stopping power, and the other result for them is when the brake gets too hot and pockets fr air form, there are channels or holes for it to escape..[/QUOTE]

I've designed and sized brakes...and i can assure you that the distance between the clamping surface and center of rotation is one of the key measures...you should ask yourself why they don't put more pad on the same rotors and always seem to grow to larger diameter rotors for more stopping power...hmmmm. oh and i'm dieing at the idea that slots and cross drilled rotors increase braking...purely cooling my man. not trying to shoot everything down that you said but if you can get away without overheating your rotors, solids stop faster PERIOD. now those pockets of air...well not really pockets...think of it as expansion of the air in the micro grooves of the pad surface due to super heating...again...wouldn't have that problem with a properly sized rotor...and yes it's much easier to undersize the brakes and provide slots and cross drilled for cooling...**** it's what i dit

[QUOTE=Hence the use of ceramic brakes, on race cars, they absorb the heat quickly aiding stoping power, another result is they absorb heat away from the pad to prevent from glazing. When the brakes are release ceramic also cools down quickly to avoid heat soaking[/QUOTE]

Do me a favor...google ceramic...just the work ceramic...you'll find that it's used because it's one of the most insulating materials on the planet...ceramic rotors don't absorb heat at all...that's what the ceramic is for....h2ave you every even been near a race car with them...5 min after a race you could put your bare hands on them...**** have you ever heard of the space shuttle...it used ceramic plates to insulate from the heat generated from re-entry.

ok, that's officially that last time i make my self sound like such an ***...but come on...don't talk definitively unless you really use this stuff and know why it works.

 

I have to disagree with you as well. Yes, a larger surface area can absorb more heat but the slots or holes are not for braking power but for cooling. In actuality a rotor without holes or slots will work better than one with holes or slots due to greater surface area. Holes/slots reduce the surface area which reduces braking ability.

 

Nice one asshat.


Seriously though thank you for clearing that up. Im not an engineer but I can tell you that as a car noob I possibly would have absorbed that info if it werent for my common knowledge. Alot of that just didnt make sense.

 

I hate to continue this and I hate to argue with a engineer, but I mention all I study in college was physics and my in college job was for a plastics company doing nothing but thermodynamics.

I'll just say a lot of your thinking is misconceptions, unfortantly even people who sell brakes or design there own setup rarely know what is what and I too dont want to come off like a asshat.

edit comments below

 

I cant claim to be a expert, but I do consider myself quite knowledgeable on cars. It also it appears that brake rotor makers are siding more on my side, not to say I may be wrong in some areas, but its all about thermodynamics-- and that I know

Feel free to correct me, again am not claiming to know everything, nor be a "asshat"

edit-- comments below, the orginal writeup done by a friend, my brother and me I found a copy here it since been modified and used in many forums
http://www.dallasimports.net/forums/...hp/t11487.html

 

I save some trouble for people-- I wish this would be a sticky, since I have battled this many times over, lucky I found part of the writeup I save from a few years back.


First, lets get some physics. Tell me how a heatsink with less mass will cool better? You do realize that a brake rotor acts as a large heatsink to transfer heat from the brake pads to the rotor. The heat generated from pads has to go somewhere and so it transfers to the rotor and caliper.


From Wilwood's website:
QUOTE

Q: Why are some rotors drilled or slotted?
A: Rotors are drilled to reduce rotating weight, an issue near and dear to racers searching for ways to minimize unsprung weight. Drilling diminishes a rotor's durability and cooling capacity.

Slots or grooves in rotor faces are partly a carryover from the days of asbestos pads. Asbestos and other organic pads were prone to "glazing" and the slots tended to help "scrape or de-glaze" them. Drilling and slotting rotors has become popular in street applications for their pure aesthetic value.



QUOTE http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.htm
Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the 40’s and 50’s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first ‘drilled’ because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures – a process known as ‘gassing out’. These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses ‘somewhere to go’. It was an effective solution, but today’s friction materials do not exhibit the same gassing out phenomenon as the early pads.

For this reason, the holes have carried over more as a design feature than a performance feature. Contrary to popular belief they don’t lower temperatures (in fact, by removing weight from the rotor, the temperatures can actually increase a little), they create stress risers allowing the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads – sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. (Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it.)



QUOTE From Stoptech:
Which is better, slotted or drilled rotors?

StopTech provides rotors slotted, drilled or plain. For most performance applications slotted is the preferred choice. Slotting helps wipe away debris from between the pad and rotor as well as increasing the "bite" characteristics of the pad. A drilled rotor provides the same type of benefit, but is more susceptible to cracking under severe usage. Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors.


That almost sounds like an excuse to use cross drilled rotors, and for your street car which probably is never driven on the track, the drilled rotors are fine, but as Stoptech states, they will crack and are not good for severe applications.



QUOTE From Baer:
"What are the benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors?

In years past, crossdrilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads...However, with today’s race pad technology, ‘outgassing’ is no longer much of a concern...Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings."



---------------------------------------

Here is how it works. The friction between the pad and rotor is what causes you to stop. This friction converts your forward energy into heat (remember Einstein: Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it is converted). Now that heat is a bad thing. Yes it is bad for the rotors but it is a lot worse for the pads. A warped rotor will still stop the car - it will just feel like ****. Overheated pads however WILL NOT stop the car. It is here where the rotors secondary responsibility comes in. Its job now is to DISSIPATE the heat away from the pads and DISPERSE it through itself. Notice that DISSIPATE and DISPERSE are interchangeable? Once the heat is removed from the pad/surface area it is then removed.



--------------------------------------------------------
#1 Maintains a coefficient of friction with the pad to slow the forward inertia of the vehicle

#2 DISSIPATE the heat

#3 REMOVE the heat from the brake system

#1 Maintains a coefficient of friction with the pad to slow the forward inertia of the vehicle:
This one is pretty simple and self-explanatory. The rotor's surface is where the pads contact and generate friction to slow the vehicle down. Since it is this friction that causes the conversion of forward acceleration into deceleration (negative acceleration if you want) you ideally want as much as possible right? The more friction you have the better your stopping will be. This is reason #1 why BIGGER brakes are the best way to improve a vehicle's stopping ability. More surface area on the pad and the rotor = more friction = better stopping. Does that make sense Ace? Good. Let's move on.

#2 DISSIPATE The Heat:
Let's assume for a second that the vehicle in question is running with Hawk Blue pads on it. The brand doesn't really matter but that is what I am using as my example. They have an operating range of 400 degrees to 1100 degrees. Once they exceed that 1100 degree mark they fade from overheating. The pad material gets too soft to work effectively - glazing occurs. This means that a layer of crude glass forms on the surface of the pad. As we all know glass is very smooth and very hard. It doesn't have a very high coefficient of friction. This is bad - especially when I am coming down the back straight at VIR at 125MPH. Lucky for us the rotor has a job to do here as well. The rotor, by way of thermal tranfer DISSIPATES the heat throughout itself. This DISSIPATION lessens the amount of heat at the contact area because it is diluted throughout the whole rotor. The bigger the rotor the better here as well. The more metal it has the more metal the heat can be diluted into. Make sense? This isn't rocket science here d00d.

#3 REMOVE the heat from the brake system:
Now comes your favorite part of the process. This is what you thought DISSIPATION was. It is ok. I will allow you to be wrong. This is the step where the rotor takes the heat it DISSIPATED from the pads and gets rid of it for good. How does it do this? By radiating it to the surface - either the faces or inside the veins. It is here where cool air interacts with the hot metal to cool it off and remove the heat. Once again there is a reoccuring theme of "the bigger the better" here. The bigger the rotor, the more surface area it will have which means more contact with the cooling air surrounding it. Got it? Good.

------------------------------------------------------

Now let's look at why cross-drilling is a bad idea.

First - as we have already established, cross-drilling was never done to aid in cooling. Its purpose was to remove the worn away pad material so that the surfaces remained clean. As we all know this doesn't have much of a purpose nowadays.

Next - In terms of cooling: Yes - x-drilling does create more areas for air to go through but remember - this is step 3 on the list of tasks. Let's look at how this affects steps 1 and 2. The drilling of the rotor removes material from the unit. This removal means less surface area for generating surface friction as well as less material to accept the DISSIPATED heat that was generated by the friction. Now because of this I want to optimize step one and 2 since those are the immediate needs. If it takes longer for the rotor to get rid of the heat it is ok. You will have a straight at some point where you can rest the brakes and let your cooling ducts do their job. My PRIMARY concern is making sure that my car slows down at the end of the straight. This means that the rotor needs to have as much surface as possible to generate as much friction as possible and it needs to DISSIPATE the resulting heat AWAY from the pads as quick as possible so they continue to work. In both cases x-drilling does nothing to help the cause.


So why don't race teams use them if they are so much better? Consistency?

- Less usable surface area for generating friction
- Less material to DISSIPATE the heat away from the pads
- Less reliable and they are a safety risk because of fatigue and stress resulting from the reduced material

 

+ motherfking 1!


Don't make our cars look like civics and integras with your flashy painted calipers!

 

first of all...i agree with a lot of what you're saying magicpie...but even you have to admit your wording in the first post was just plain wrong. if you look back through my post you'll also find that i agree cross-drilling and slots are a waste of time...size them correctly in the first place...but i promise you that if your race car is warping rotors and over heating...grooves will help. they basically provide cooling vanes that help keep the pad temps down. that's not coming from engineering or physics theory...I race cars...I have years worth of track time with many different setups and all sorts of attempts...i also agree that slots or grooves (my preference) help scrape glazing...but any racer is going to tell you that if you're glazing them...doesn't matter if it's being scraped off...you're over braking what's on the car and they're not giving you as much stopping power...you're better off lengthing your braking zone and giving the rotors more time to dissipate (which by the way is conductive cooling...having trouble believing you have a physics degree and missed that one)

asshat OUT

 

I agree my posting wasnt perfect, it was merely to give a general concept. Also not being a expert by any means, I can see some mistakes I made.

At any rate we're both wrong and right in many degrees, its no big deal to me. If you say thet're more useful then I say, then I cant possible disagree, my racing experience is very limited, and am sure there lots of truth to what you say.

I see it perhaps in a different light, its not to say its the best view, but I feel its valid and has truth. I guess I might of got a bit too defensive in your remarks.

Live and learn.

As for missing, the braking zone stuff-- well am a college drop out, which my explain many things. I work in the movie industry now-- now that stuff I know.
Anything else perhaps I pretend to know more then I really do

 

**** i'm laughing my a$$ off man...it takes some ***** to admit something like that....damn it i hate being out done...

so +1 on thinking i know everything...

so you in the LA area...i worked in Palmdale if you know where that is...the bunghole of the world...but they sure do have a nice track.

 

Yeah I hate being wrong, so dont think I wasnt trying to destroy everything you wrote, just couldnt I rather admit to being wrong, when I still got some dignity then to just go with my BS and look like a total ***.

I live in the houston,texas area, but I work in various city, so am in LA often. I never really travel around cali, so dont know much. I did race on Laguna Seca twice. I did alright, but I like any good racer its the cars fault for a poor time and never the drivers

 

OT: if you're from DFW area and you're in Palmdale now... they got some nice static displays outside your office. i once lived in Lancaster and worked up there. teh lose. its so f-in hot.

 

Not worth the upgrade really. The stock 07 Brakes are better than the 03-05 brakes. I think in 06 the Z got some better brakes as the standard model.

If I were you, get a another aftermarket option like Stop Tech, etc.

 

+1
1800+ is way too much! Plus its 2003..