Bob,

Maybe it seems like I'm attacking but I don't think I am.

I have had Wilwood on my Civic, Alcon on my NSX, Stoptech on my M3.

I hated the Wilwood.
Liked the Alcon but had a hard time finding a pad I liked.
Liked the StopTech on my M3.

I sold the Civic, crashed the NSX and switched the StopTech to Brembo on my M3. Eventually selling the M3 and buying my 350.

The StopTech was an improvment over stock. I did feel ripped off when I found out who manufactured the rotors, that the calipers came from Taiwan and that the "vibration problem" should be expected.

The Brembo kit was $600 more but was money well spent. The rotors lasted longer (saving me money in the long run), the brakes responded faster and had more modulation. I never once experienced fade with the Brembo kit no matter what pad I used.
And what vibration? I never had any.

Stoptech is a new, innovative company. They should be recognized. Good products, good customer service and definitely an improvment over alot of other Brake Companies.

I would just like to see what is marketing & hype, and what is actually functional. I asked alot of questions on the previous post and I'd like to have them answered.

I understand you are a new company and are constantly improving your products. I personally would rather atay with a company with the most extensive race background and OEM use.

 

originally posted by 350on19inchVolk

Wouldn't your "Stiffining" bridge take you out of the open top caliper class? Brembo has never had an issue with caliper flex so you seem to be trying to improve on something that doesn't need improvment.

To make such statment shows the ignorance of the people feeding you this nonsense. Caliper manufactures are constantly trying to improve the stiffness of their calipers. We have tested the new Brembo 2003 Viper Caliper and it is much stiffer than any prior Brembo production part we tested.
At the highest levels of racing the quest for stiffer calipers resulted in the use of MMC and other materials.

This is a marketing tactic that StopTech is known for. Just by saying your caliper is stiffer then people believe Brembo has a problem.
Can we see a test of your caliper without the bridge??

We are putting out our new catalog and it will include a comparison with and without the bridge and a comparison to other designs with a complete description of the test procedure. BTW without the bridge or caliper is similiar to other open top calipers.

this change because of a problem you are currently having? Are you finding a way to cut cost? Why the change if you caliper is already superior?

Our caliper is superior. We wanted to improve on the traditional gravity casting method and offer an even better product. We improved yield in our production. This Squeeze forge process is well known to larger firms and many of the new parts from Brembo and PBR are made by this process.

if I were a StopTech customer that already owns a brake kit I would want to know "why the change" and will you upgrade my system. So you are saying that any company that makes an improvement in process or product must offer the improved product free to their customer base? Funny I didn't get a free upgrade to my windows software as each new major release came out.

This actualy seems like a solid idea. More airflow means it cools faster and reduces fade.
Maybe a disadvantage if you are racing and it cools too well. Don't race pads funtion at a specific temperature range? Is this benefit directed at racers or street cars?

Cooler running rotors last longer for the street or race and improve pad life. I am well aware of pad temperature range issues. At some levels of racing brake ducts are sometimes blocked off depending on the ambient temperature to keep the pads in range. Most racers have the opposite problem and need better cooling.

And again, is this a benefit because of the change in you rotor manufacturer? If I own StopTech will you upgrade my rotors?
not sure what you are asking here.


Marketing again? Why is this a benefit? Doens't this mean that the outer pad remains cooler? Doesn't the coeficint of friction vary with heat? Does this mean one pad is working harder that the other? Any uneven pad wear? Please elaborate on this.

It has long been known that the outer rotors in non pressurized systems run 50-80 degrees hotter on the outside face. This results in more pad wear on the outer pad. Our directional hat helps equalize the temps and wear. Based on the reports of Stewart racing in Trans-Am this hat innovation was a noticable benefit.

"Leaders in balanced brake upgrades". Once again this seems like marketing. Just because you were the first to mention the term "Balanced Brakes" doesn't make you the leader.
Your company had to adress the "balance" issue because your caliper bodies all look identical. If you didn't address this point then people would assume you only use one caliper.
-Just like how you assumed that Brembo doesnt pay attention to balance (or lead people to believe Brembo uses "off the shelf calipers").

We are the only after market (not OE) brake manufacturer sizing pistons by the platform. We make 17 different piston combinations at the present. Before we entered the market the market Brembo offered the Lotus Elise caliper 36-40 for the 328 rotor, the F40 or F50 for the 332 rotor and the F50 for the 355 rotor. What if the F50 (40-44) was too large for the application?

We are leaders in "balanced brake upgrades" We were the first after market brake upgrade company to make brake upgrades with the torque reaction designed and tested for the platform.

Brembo certainly sizes the pistons correctly when they make the complete system for the OE. The OE design group is not at the little division in Costa Mesa making the aftermarket kits and it hype on your part to claim it is the same group as OE.

Yes we really make 17 different piston bores and will be making more as needed.

Brembo could easily match our design efforts if they wished. The after market is just not big enough to justify pulling their top people into this market. The guys in Costa Mesa are not able to offer the range of brake torque capabiltity we have because they haven't commited the resources to bore all the different piston sizes required. To my knowledge the Costa mesa operation farms out all the hats and brackets to an outside firm.

I need to terminate this discussion and head to Laguna to support the touring and GT teams running our brake kits.

It is clear that you are getting data directly from Race Tech. It would be more honest if Race tech would ask these questions directly.

Thanks for the space.

Bob Lee
StopTech LLC

 

noel, don't get hung up on the piston count. For anything other than full-tilt racing, the number of pistons past 4 will do nothing for you. Piston count does not translate into clamping force.

The CART guys run up to 12-piston calipers. The reason being that the greater number of pistons equalizes the pressure distribution across the brake pad (front to back). This keeps the pad from being worn out on the leading edge and having 25% life left in the trailing edge. Caliper "stiffness" also plays a role in this too.

 

Bob, to add to your point here: I'm sure most racers would welcome a cooler running rotor. A cooler rotor could mean getting rid of the brake ducting altogether. This would mean a significant aerodynamic advantage. In a world where the difference between winning and losing a million bucks is a few tenths of a second, any advantage is just that!

 

So,Archman..what do you think? Rotora or Stoptech? I am actually going to rotora's factory tommorow.They have my set of 355mmx32mm big brake set already.but they have to check out my wheels for offsets..

 

Noel,
I would do some serious research before pulling the trigger on a 4 wheel kit. Based on my personal research, I would go with StopTech. I spent quite a bit of time talking to others at the track about the StopTech kits, and their customers on a whole are very happy with their products. They also have a lot of race cars running their kits right now (as CanAmBob said...they are at Laguna Seca this weekend). Maybe you should go up to Laguna and to talk to the StopTech people, or the pro race teams using their product. See what they have to say. Regardless of what others tell you about marketing hype, etc., the race teams are in it to win. They would not be running the product if they didn’t think it worked well enough under brutal conditions. The kits on those cars are the same as what you can get on your street car.

Also, I’d look at the actual engineering behind the product. Talk to the head engineer at Rotara while you’re there, and see what advantages their product has. Based on their website, you can’t really tell much about why the product itself is actually better. That’s a bit scary. If you go to the Stoptech website, there is an abundance of useful info about the products, and brake systems in general. Some of it is written by Carrol Smith…check out his series of books (Tune to Win, Engineer to Win, etc.) The reason all of this info is laid out, is because they want people to understand why the technical innovations of their products make them better!
Also, StopTech’s head engineer (Steve Ruiz) has a strong background in racing. He’s prepared all sorts of pro race cars, and really knows his stuff. I would talk to him after you’ve talked to the guys at Rotara. Have him explain what he sees are the advantages of his product vs. the Rotara. Since these are both small companies, you should be able to get a lot of good answers straight from the source. I’m sure StopTech would accommodate you as well if you stopped by for a brief visit.

Overall, my advice is to take your time and not rush into anything. Do your homework, and make your own decision about which is the product you really want. I would go to both manufacturers, and ask any and all questions you have. Talk to others running their products under hard use, and see what they say. I’ve researched this a lot, and I have no doubt that StopTech is making THE kit to have right now for my application (hard road course driving, street, and autoX). The worst thing you will do is to bolt on a kit you don’t really want, just to save a few bucks, etc. Every time you look at them, you’ll be disappointed. Good luck!

 

Now, that would certainly be a valid pint, the typical "hand-me-down" syndrome. Don't get me wrong, as I believe that Brembo is a giant in the world of brake systems. “Gran Turismo” that is a hell of a name, I am convince that I have to get me one

Brakes, are on my list of priorities; and I need a company that not only develops its technology based on the larger lucrative market and then pass it down to the main stream end user. I need a company who does that, as well as focuses on the run-of-the mill street customer. I can see that medium size companies have to be more resourceful in finding that untapped niche in the ever shrinking market; and that is us “the street buggy niche.” Gone are the days that we take the absolute word of marketing giants without question; we have now graduated to the level of the “educated consumer.”

If what you say is true, Bob, keep it up, as I may still decide to give up my Brembo Gran idea for one of your “STOP TECH(s)” , especially now that I am getting my sc; I need to look at brakes, wheels, tires and shocks. I cannot put my safety on super-duper exhaust systems, ya-da, ya-da.

Do the stoptechs only come in black or red

Excellent, most informative and educational thread; that is what I call “…….coming straight from the horse’s mouth.” We need more personal attention!!

Thanks
Gerald

 

Bob is at the race track today, so I'll jump in and answer for him. The standard colors are red and black for the StopTech calipers. Silver and Yellw are available at no extra cost, but require a few weeks lead time.

Brembo calipers are available in Red, Black, Silver, or Yellow and custom colors (anything your heart desires) are available for $270/pair of calipers and add about a week to the delivery date.

 

Thanks D any possibility of showing pics of a silverstone zee with yellow and also with the silver stoptechs?

Anyone?

Thanks
Gerald

 

I have to second J Ritt's comment here. Don't rush into anything. However, if you force me to choose, I would have to go with Stoptech. I don't buy sales hype, I just wait until someone does a comparo-test. From the link that Bob gave, I was quite impressed on their ability to tune a set of brakes for the Z. They managed to beat Brembo by 2ft...which is very, very hard to do.

I have yet to hear anything about Rotora. They may be just as good, but I don't like risking my life on assumptions. I guess that's why I plunked down the cash for the Brembos. I doubt I'll ever replace my Brembos with Stoptechs, but when I build a race-car, I'll probably give them a shot.

 

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

I love my Stoptechs....

 

Just the front forr now..to late to work last night..will proceed later for the rear..will send more photos when its done

 

another view..

 

OOOPs,sorry guys..different rotors..they are covered...

 

what is the rotor size??? 300 mm or 355 mm????

does it comes with a 4 or a 6 piston caliper???

 

They are,355mmx32mm..6 pistons front & 4 pistons rear...

 

Okay, I don't have any first hand experience with either company, but I just wanted to point out.... Lots of high end cars, as well as the Zs) come with Bose systems as OEM.... But they still all suck. And plenty of "smaller" or "greener" companies make far superior products, i.e. Boston Acoustic speakers, which aren't as over-engineered as Bose speakers (6x9 cutout with a 4" and a mile of ductwork), but have some features the Bose doesn't touch, i.e. a fero-fluid cooled 4" (largest int he world as far as I know) that handles more power than some 8s....

I'm not saying this makes Stoptech better, but the argument that lots of cars come from the factory with this or that is not necessarily an endorsement. Maybe Brembo is just big enough that that they can make a good product cheaper in mass quantities. And maybe they spend as much money on PR as they do on brakes, like Bose. Just my $0.02

 

I dunno if this would be relevent but with the brembos wouldn't you be able to go to the Nissan or Infiniti dealership to get the brakes serviced?

 

If by "serviced" you mean have new pads and rotors provided and installed by the dealer, then yes. But both the aftermarket Brembo and StopTech brake kits use standard pads and rotors and are virtually identical to the factory Brembos in terms of pad/rotor replacement. If you really were keen on having an overpriced Nissan dealer do all your service work, you could certainly bring in replacement pads and rotors and hand them over to the service department. Bleeding the calipers on both of those aftermarket kits is exactly the same as bleeding the calipers on the factory Brembo setup.

If you mean having the calipers rebuilt, then you would probably go elsewhere. Again, both Brembo and StopTech use industry standard pistons and seals which are available from their dealers or from the general automotive aftermarket. However, unless you race hard, it's unlikely that you will need to replace caliper pistons and seals during the lifetime of your car.