Hi all,
Did a bit of searching but couldn't find much on this.
I'm going to take care of brakes some time soon, and was trying to make my mind up on how much to spend and for what.

I'll definitely do rotors and pads, and most likely the lines as well since I've found the stock ones to be squishy as hell. Fluid too of course.

Use is daily driver, occasional lesson/monitored driving on track and happy hour after that, and some track time (hopefully more in the future) but never for very long stretches of time. No drifting, no competitions, no car shows aesthetics etc.

What I can't decide on is if I want to get a BBK on the Z or not (touring malnourished brakes).
Braking distance wise I'm quite positive pads, rotors and eventually better tyres will get me all I need to get for the money for a while, as I seriously doubt forking out for a bbk is gonna shave more than a couple feet on top of those things.
And yes, the small brakes inside 18" wheels do look absolutely ***, but I don't care

What I have no idea about when it comes to our car is what the fading is like with various configurations, and issues with vibrations, non coaxial kicks, and bad pad contact/wearing. Basically trying to figure out if I really want to fork out for the track brembos or for an endless kit for the things where they'd really make a difference.
Rather than "my setup is awesome I've never experienced any fading even after a 12hrs endurance on a 2Km track" comments, I'd like to hear from people who actually felt fading creeping in, on what setup, and after how long.
Anybody feel like sharing if and at what point they encountered any on stock touring (or less), stock track, stock with upgraded rotors and pads etc please?

Maybe if enough people pitch in it could be worth it to edit my verbose crap out and compile it into a sticky
Thanks in advance.

 

I just got my Z so I don't have anything to offer relative to my experience other then the Brembo package feels amazing and are super easy to change pads out, as you sould find with almost any BBK.

Budget for slotted rotors though to reduce fade, the slots skim away the pads to reduce/eliminate glazing of the pad material (causing brake fade). My .02. Now hopefully someone with slotted rotors can chime in.

 

i did a track day with the nismo pads and didn't have any fade with them. i have carbotech xp8's on a miata and don't have fade either. my advice is to get better pads and see how you like them before spending more money on other parts. and i prefer blank rotors over slotted rotors.

 

You are correct in the a BBK may only shorten stopping distance by mere feet at normal speeds and conditions.

As for fade, that will only occur when the brakes get too hot. That's not going to happen in normal driving - only during track use caused by repeated slowing from high speeds. 99.9% of people here can't comment on fade as they have never experienced it.

 

I'm aware of how it works, and have experienced it before (not on the Z yet as I have bugger all protracted track time), but thanks for adding the note to the thread.

I read a lot of posts around of people talking track, I'm surprised nobody has ever experienced it really, and was hoping somebody could pitch in saying if they ever felt it before the 2h mark and on what kind of track.

Non uniform pad wear and vibrations are another two things I'd be also interested in (and frankly they were two things I noticed more than fading reduction when I moved to 6 calipers on my old Z3).

Plus if I find enough people whinging about it kicking in early I have an excuse to delude myself into upgrading which I really can't find now

 

There are probably a lot of people that think they've seen their brakes fade and use that as justification for an upgrade.

I've done several track days and had times where I've come back into the pits with the front brakes smoking and never really noticed them fading while on the track. The only time I've noticed any brake fade was while bedding in now rotors and pads - I over did it and really toasted them.

 

I am running 2003 oem brakes, with ferodo ds2500 pads, motul fluid, SS lines, and slotted rotors. After a PDX session of around 6-8 laps I start feeling a little bit of fade at GIR (gateway international raceway) when coming into turn 1 and having to slow from 125mph to around 50ish. The fade is subtle and not all pedal is lost however you can tell its there. The brakes tend to cool down well enough by the time I come around for the next lap and I experience a similar amount of fade.

At this point I feel that I am not a good enough driver to justify moving to a BBK and a lot of my braking time can be reduced as I become more skilled. However after more seat time I will probably move to a brembo, or a g37 kit, or at the very least the larger 06+ non brembo brake calipers as they are said to be larger and they are very affordable.

This will all depend on my budget at the time that I feel it is right to move to a bigger brake setup.

 

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of post I was after!
Now if soembody with track brembo and somebody with an upgraded bbk could also post something similar I'd know if I'm looking forward to forking out another 5 grands or not

 

my share-

i take my Z to the track every now and then. Track used is club circuit, Dubai Autodrome http://www.dubaiautodrome.com/general/trkinfo.aspx
It seems that this track is inspired by the rest of the world's popular tracks. Like nkohler mentioned, i also get the same max speed of approx 125-130mph from long straight, and slowing down to 50-55ish for the upcoming turn.

here's how we run the track day / evening:
20min per session x 3 session with 20min cool down (at the pit) in between

I currently have the following brake specs:
Brembo calipers (stock)
stoptech s/s braided lines
ULT ceramic pads
motul rbf600 brake fluid
stoptech slotted rotors.

comparison-

With the upgraded kit, i was able to finish a full 20minute session with minimal brake fade at the end

Stock brakes started to fade around 15min in my first session. 50% brake fade was experienced during second session.

after completing 1 full hour at the track, the stock brakes were already dangerously spongy near the end of the final session, so i had to pit early. With the upgraded brakes, the brake fade is manageable and you can still keep pushing the car hard - (overheated tyres were my next issue).

bad issues with the setup? non whatsoever.

if you are thinking of upgrading to a BBK, nkohler was right about the way you handle your car - it affects how soon you will experience brake fade.

otherwise, here's another info:
there's another really good Z driver who only upgraded his front brakes to 6pot, stoptech and he experiences zero brake fade. he didn't even need to upgrade the rear to 4pot.

my suggestion:
if you're not into competition, the best one to get is the track brembo calipers, and then get the similar upgrades as i have (but get better pads as many people don't like the ULT's at all lolz)

good luck!!!

here's a recent pic of me and my Z! im sharing it just for fun..


just a reminder: do not put your hand brakes on while resting at the pitstop.

 

there are BBK's out there for a good bit less thank 5k...

 

I have a touring 350 and have tracked it will stock brake components (non brembo) aside from changing the brake fluid to Motul. After about 15 minutes on Autobahn (maybe less, I honestly didn't pay attention to minutes, but our sessions were 30mn) the brakes would weaken considerably. As others have said, coming down a lot in speed off the straights is where you'd notice it the most. I had to brake earlier and let out of the gas earlier, and not upshift in a few areas of track because I needed the extra braking room. At the end of my day, my front pads were starting to break apart from the heat and my rear pads were worn to nothing. Since then I have upgraded pads, but haven't been back to the track to test them (winter weather here in Indiana).

I have stock HP and I hope that I won't have to go to a BBK to avoid the brake fading. I would like to have them, but like a lot of folks I don't have thousands laying around to toss at it. I am starting with pads, and will try stainless lines next. Hopefully that is enough.

The other part that I noticed after the brakes were hot was that I didn't know what I was going to get when I hit the pedal. Some times I'd get brakes, and sometimes I'd get a lot less brakes. The variance in performance was not fun at all.

 

brake pads and ducts (homemade or otherwise). the braided lines won't do much for pedal feel when you're overheating the pads.

go with xp10's or 12's!

 

Great thread.
I just did a track event with my stock 2008 Enthusiast and cooked the rear brakes during the second session. Going down the back straight at 130mph for repeated laps took its toll on the brakes trying to slow the car down. On a great run down to turn 10a, the brakes went to the floor. I then pumped 'em till they hooked up and antilock kicked in. Wheeew....

When we were all standing around telling our experiences, everyone had an opinion on what I should do to the brakes.

"You need to replace the fluid to DOT5 Hightemp"
"You should call my guy in Charlotte for some better pads"
"Stainless lines will be the way to go"
and they went on.

I have 2700miles on the car so far and after its first service at the dealer, I drove out with new rear brakes. They said that the pads may have been defective. They didnt replace anything else and the car drives like new.

My guess is that the fluid boiled, put air in the lines, and the rears overheated. With this in mind, I'm going to put in high temp brake fluid and try again.

Instead of doing pads, then lines, then calipers, I plan on doing a BBK on all fours later if the track keeps calling me. :-)

+1 on the "dont use your parking brake between hot sessions on the track"

 

03 touring , tracked it with stock brakes for a while using EBC yellow pads. The brakes were cooked after about 2 laps on the 3.1 SMMR track. Brake temps were in the 900 degree range and i was running Valvoline Dot4 with braided lines. pedal stayed mostly firm (needed a quick bleed at the end of the day) but i just couldn't get the car shut down for the turns.

next i got a killer deal on the bigger 06 brakes. Same setup , EBC yellow pads, the same line and same fluid. Temps dropped into the mid 700 and low 800's. Braking was much better, i would only get a little fade near the end of the session. The only downfall is i went thru a set of pads a day at the track, and it took its toll on the rotors.

Current , i run a Willwood BBK. 14 inch front 13 rear and Poly B pads on the track. No fade at all. I can brake deeper into the corner and harder( some do so experiance) Temps after the cooldown lap run in the low 500's and pads last 10+ events with street tires.

The above experiance is all with street tires. The stock 03 brakes with with 225F and 245r rear Falken 615's. The next 2 were with 255 275 falken 615 combo's.

I suggest at least the OEM brembo's if your tracking your car regularly.

 

that white knuckle experience was most likely brought to you by our friend "knockback". i'm guessing that right before the straight that allowed 130mph you went through a left/right section that required little to no braking?

if thats the case then next time your on the straight, just give a slight tap on the brake pedal to get the "slack" out of it.

 

Can you explain further what 'knockback' is?

I was at the track recently (Dunnville Autodrome) which is a small technical track with tight corners after long straightaways. I noticed, after a while, under braking towards the apex, the wheel would 'kick back'. It was weird, I've never experienced that before.

The brakes also faded quite a bit, they felt mushy and I had to brake earlier and earlier because I had lost confidence in them. This was on a stock 2007 350Z Touring w/ 13k miles. Eventually after 40mins of track time (two sessions of 20mins), I stopped.

Any recommendation on brake pads? I'm leaning towards Hawk Ceramic performance pads?

 

read this for info on pad knockback - http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml
If it felt mushy, it's probably air in your lines. I believe fade is when braking performance decreases while still retaining pedal feel.

Are you sure the 'kickback' is not the ABS/TCS?

 

Thanks for that very informative link.

I'm pretty sure its not ABS. I know what the feedback feels like when ABS kicks in, or even TCS.

This was very violent and fits the scenario explained in the link above.

Do you guys have suggestions on brake pads to use?

 

there is no violent feeling with knockback--you won't feel it at all until you go to apply the brakes and find a very mushy pedal.

you prolly felt the vdc pulsing one wheel while entering a corner too hot.

carbotech makes awsome pads.

 

What about Hawk pads? They are easier to find locally. But they have a multitude models to choose from