Good afternoon,

First, I am heading to an HDPE at Gingerman this weekend and tonight is my last night to service the car before I go, so I need some quick help.

I have Ferodo DS2500 on my Track model brakes and they are only used for the track. I never use them on the street because when coming to a stop they make the rotor "resonate". They literally sing. At any rate, I usually switch them out right before I leave for the track.

Last night, I put them on and then headed out on the streets to bed them in. I did not place them in the same locations as the last time, so I thought it would be a good idea to bed them in. As I was pulling out of my drive way, the rotors did "sing" a little. Otherwise, the brakes were good and quite.

I did multiple 30-0 runs, then 40-0, then 50-0. The brakes started to get hot and as they did I begun to notice that they were squeeling all the time. As things heated up, the squeeling got worse.

This morning, when everything had cooled down, I headed to work. Initially they did not make much noise. However, as the commute continued they started to get louder. Now, whenever they are warm to hot, the really squeel. I don't want to get to the track and be squeeling that loudly the entire time. I also do not want to discover sudden brake fade or glazing.

Tonight, I will inspect them to look for any issues. What should I be looking for? What does a glazed pad look like? Would it make sense to bed them in some more? They did get pretty hot last night. Would cleaning up the calipers, pads, and shims help? Anti-squeel compound (which melted at the track last time)?

As a quick side note, I know that the rotors are not warped, so that is not the issue. Also, the rotors are bright and shinny, so I do not think there is excessive pad material on them.

Any qucik, knowledgeble help would be great.

 

I've got the DS2500 and my 300ZX buddy also has the DS2500. Both of our pads squeal as well (but it doesn't bother us).

My guess why they squeal: the pads have to warm up to "optimal operating" temperature. I've done 2 DE's on my pads and I haven't noticed them squealing at the track. Just on the street.

It's always a good idea to spray down and clean your calipers and parts w/ brake parts cleaner. The anti-squeal paste should help quiet down the pads, but if you're tracking the car, then it's pretty useless (as you've already found out).

If your pads are glazed, then you can buy the most abrasive garnet paper and sand down the glazed top layer off.

Michael.

 

Michael,

Thanks for the info. However, the squealing happens more as they get hot. At the track last time, there was not resonating "sign" or squealing. No squealing during regular driving either. No, after I did the bedding last night, the hotter they get, the more they squeal.

Tonight I am going to clean everything up and check the pads. I am then going to slowly heat them up again on the street (slower than last night). Hopefully, I can make sure that once they are hot, they will not be so loud or totally quiet.

 

Good advice Michael.....if that doesn't work. Try giving back the "precious" the Ferodo pads are bound to squeal until then.

 

Well, I have run the more agressive DS3000 pads and they squealed, but I can't imagine the streetable DS2500 would be louder, and I had no problem with using the DS3000 on the street. It reminded me that I had an awesome high performance set of pads on there (as if the sparks flying from the rotors wasn't enough!) Mine only squealed when they got hot (and thus were in their optimal operating temperature range). So i'd say your squealing is normal, unless it is louder than normal. However, I was always careful to label mine in baggies, LF or RF (left front, etc.) so I always put them back with the same rotor. Since yours may be swapped, they may not be seated properly yet, and this squealing might reflect that. If this is the case, then I'd think that over a short time, they will seat nicely with the rotor, and perhaps the excessive squealing will subside to normal levels. Please keep us updated as to what you find.

 

I will update everyone. As for the squealing, if I am in an open suburban area, then everyone within 100 feet would hear them and every one within 50 ft would be a little annoyed. Dogs within 1/2 mile would bark.

ColecatZ, these pads are for my precious only

I am going to clean everything up with brake parks cleaner and then slowly reheat them tonight. Hopefully this will correct any issues. I might even hit them with garnet cloth to make sure a fresh surface is available for bedding. Thanks all.

 

Okay, I got it fixed. I am not certain which step I took fixed the issue, so I will list them all.

First, I removed the pads and cleaned everything with some brake parts cleaner. Wow, that stuff works pretty well. I also whiped everything off, although this was not necessary. I wanted to make sure everything was really clean.

Next, I took a scrubie and removed the burned "anti-squel" compound that I had on there before. As I mentioned before, this stuff did not take the track temperatures, so it was burned on all the shims. I got it all off and everything looked good.

Next, I sanded the surface of all the pads with some standard aluminum oxide sandpaper. I took about 1mm off each pad by placing the sandpaper on a flat surface and rubbing the pad over it. This kept the pad surface true and free from any beveling.

Finally, I reinstalled everything using a small dab of anti-seize compound on shims and what not. I could not find a high temp anti-squel compound, so I used anti-seize. I thought it might work and it should be able to take the temps. I will report after this weekend if it held up. Since it is made with copper, my shims might fuse with my pads if it does not take the temps

I then took the car out and slowly heated everything up. At first, since the pads had been sanded, the brakes were weak. After a little bit, they got their strength back. As things heated up everything went perfect. No more constant, loud squeling. I just have that little bit of resonance at the end of the braking (when going about 3mph-0mph). This is what I wanted to get back to. When I got home, I felt the rims and rotors to verify that things had reached track temps. The outer rim was hot to the touch. When I tapped the rotor, lets just say I have a blister on my finger tip. I only touched it for a split second. I definitely got to track temps.

Now, I have a question. For those that installed aftermarket track pads (especially the Ferodo's), did you leave the stock shims on the rear or remove them? I have always left them on. Please note this is for Brembo brakes.

Thanks everyone and I hope this helps others in the future.

 

Noooooooooo! Bad idea. Always use garnet paper if you're going to sand down the rotors and/or pads: clicky, clicky:

"i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason."

I re-use my shims. FYI, the OEM pads supply the anti-squeal, new cotter pin clips (whatever those key things are called), and new shims.

Michael.

 

Not only should you put the pads back in the same caliper, but you should also make note of if they are inboard or outboard. The pistons will make impressions on the backing plate and you should be conscious of seating every pad back into its proper spot. This is easy to do because the pistons are different sizes and make distinct impressions in the backing plate.

Also, I don't believe in pussyfooting around when it comes to bedding in the pads. Try 8 60-0 stops after you've done a couple of miles and a few soft stops on the pads. You need to do these 60-0 stops in succession so you don't let them cool at all between stops. By the 5th braking run, you should smell the pads and they should go into green fade by the 7th or 8th stop. This is good. Drive around for another ten minutes at moderate speeds to cool them and avoid using them at all costs, but if you do, NEVER leave your foot on the pedal at a complete stop. I go out between 12-1 AM so that I can run lights and stop signs with no traffic on the backroads.

You need to make sure you have a nice, even deposit of pad material on the rotor. We did Michael-Dallas's Ferodos and I can tell you that the material is light brown in color. If your rotors are smooth and glossy, you don't have any compound transfer going on between pad and rotor.

 

I can vouch for this tidbit of advice. This is EXACTLY how I did all my pads, and they performed flawlessly. Even the part about going out late to roll stop signs, etc. I use the same exact technique. Meanwhile, my brother bedded in a set of race pads by riding the brake on the way to the track to get the temps up (despite my advice), and by the end of the session, he was down the the backing plates and scored his rotors. Completely anihilated a brand new set of pads in one track day, because they weren't properly bedded. That same day, mine looked like new, and I was faster than him on the track. Proper bedding is key.