Adrians07Z

I got my '07 Z with 3,000 miles back in April ..

noticed a little feathering around 6,000 miles .. figured it was normal

front tires got worse at 10,000 miles so took it to dealer .. they state the front wheels are toe'd out too far and they wont do anything since it is 5 months out of the 12K, 12 month adjustment warranty


so .. complained to Nissan Consumer Affairs .. I get the "its a sports car with soft tires excuse" .. they tell me to either swap the tires over left to right off the rims or buy new tires and get an alignment


went to Firestone today to get their "lifetime alignment" .. $150 .. go in however often I want .. they recommend every 5K or so


anyways .. I wanted to swap the front tires and get an alignment

they start working on my Z and come in saying they CAN NOT swap the tires left to right because they are IN / OUT tires (outside has to be on the outside of the rim) .. not directional (I'm thinking WTF Nissan)

so I told them to go ahead with the alignment and I'll just run the tires till there dead ...

took a while to get it on the rack b/c it was too low .. so I helped them block it and get it up .. then it didn't take long at all to do the alignment

and this is what disturbs me ... I ask the tech how bad it is and if it will go back into alignment since I lowered it (Tein S-Tech) ..

he turns around and says its not far off at all .. he barely had to adjust anything .. said the rears are perfect (don't remember seeing him touch them) and he did something under the front

.......................................................

so is it me or does something not add up

I got a print out of before and after .. but cant make any sense of the numbers and colors .. so I'll scan it and post it up tomorrow to see if they aligned it correctly or not

im confused .. I did put the S-Tech springs on after nissan told me the front tires were toe'd out too much .. but would that fix it?


Oh, and I will be complaining to Nissan Consumer Affairs again about me not being able to swap the tires over like they suggested .. hopefully this time I can get two tires out of them .. probably keep asking to talk to someone higher and higher until I get someone that speaks Japanese

Adrians07Z

oh .. took a pic too .. got bored waiting

TIP - DO NOT get in line for an alignment after a dodge .. takes fooooorever

I got off work early .. so didn't have anything to do

jimpactmfsc

iTrader: (5)

whats ur alignment specss at bro

Adrians07Z

aight .. until I can get to a scanner heres the #'s


BEFORE MEASUREMENTS -

LEFT FRONT RIGHT FRONT

Camber -1.5 -1.1
Caster 8.5 8.6
Toe .07 .12 (right tire is feathered more)


LEFT REAR RIGHT REAR

Camber -2.6 -2.2
Toe .06 .15


........................................................


AFTER MEASUREMENTS -


LEFT FRONT RIGHT FRONT

Camber -1.5 -1.1
Caster 8.5 8.6
Toe .05 .01


LEFT REAR RIGHT REAR

Camber -2.6 -2.1
Toe .07 .18


.......................................

Again, I dont think he did anything to the rears .. so no clue why the before and after is different

the toe is in the "green" now on the print out for the front .. so I guess that will help my feathering problem since thats what seems to cause it

davidv

iTrader: (2)

You have inside-outside specific tires? I would swap them anyway.

Adrians07Z

so you can swap them ?

there the stock potenza's that came on the car from the factory

the person at firestone was making it sound like murder if I did that .. haha

they were probably either trying to cover there a$$ incase I wrecked or sell me tires ..

............................

I searched and found some specs posted up .. been looking at it and looks like my rear toe needs adjusting

so before I go back I want to make sure all the other numbers look acceptable ..

and what can and can not be adjusted (caster, camber, toe) ?

davidv

iTrader: (2)

Front tow: tow is close to non-existent. How does the car steer?

Rear camber: I think you would be pleased with -1.X degrees of camber.

davidv

iTrader: (2)

I would NOT run directional tires backwards: bad idea on wet roads.

But inside-outside specific tires? Yes. I would swap them.

Adrians07Z

the car drives / steers fine ..

only thing I care about is the tire munchies my car has on the front .. so if changing the toe from out of spec to in spec fixed it then

only "problem" would be the road noise from the feathering but that doesn't bother me at all .. the only thing that bothers me is buying front tires before I'm supposed to

the #'s on the rear look a little out of spec to me .. but the alignment guy said it looks good and that the wheels look perfect b/c the dust from the road was in just the right spot on the tire (not to close to one edge)

singh

iTrader: (2)

If they are inside-outside specific, that means they cannot be swapped right? From my understanding, if you swapped your front two tires you would have the wrong side of the tire wall pointing outwards on both sides. The tread direction would still be the same, but the tire wall would now be facing inwards towards the fender...

davidv

iTrader: (2)

Here is a suggestion: Estimate the life of the tire. Say 20,000 miles. Swap at half the life or 10,000 miles.

Adrians07Z

Ok .. got to my scanner and the dang thing wont work .. guess its too old and cant find the dang cd or driver


so out comes the cell phone camera


I went down to the technical college I graduated from earlier this year and talked to the mechanics teachers ... they say I got screwed b/c places like firestone and car dealers when they do an "alignment" they basically "set the toe, and let it go"

that is all that was done to my Z yesterday ..

they want me to take it down there next week to put on their new alignment machine to see how far the numbers are off ..

so here is the sheet I got yesterday -






The main thing I want to know before going back is -

What is adjustable and what isnt ?

obviously front toe is adjustable b/c it is in spec now

but what about -

Front Camber?
Rear Camber?
Rear Toe?

I realize the lowering springs will throw off the camber some .. but if it is adjustable, by how much?

I just want to know what I'm talking about before I go back to get it done correctly

AznSky

iTrader: (12)

hmmm....I just installed S-tech's as well, Contemplated on installing the rear camber kit I already bought. But I'm gonna attempt to get an alignment tomorrow without the kit. I'll post up my specs afterwards

Adrians07Z

hell yes .. please do


then we can compare .. I watched them do my "alignment" and all he did is the front toe .. so if your specs show different before and after than I'll know what they screwed me on

and one reason I got the S-techs was multiple people said they were able to get back into specs without aftermarket / adjustable parts

Anomaly

iTrader: (7)

Just for comparison's sake, here is my alignment specs after installing the Eibach Pro-Kit and SPC Rear Camber/Toe Kit:

Left Front..........................Right Front
-1.43°..........Camber.........-1.66°
7.76°...........Caster............7.51°
0.04°.............Toe..............0.03°

Left Rear..........................Right Rear
-1.60°..........Camber.........-1.62°
0.10°...........Caster............0.10°

This was done at my local Big-O Tires. They did before and after and included the specified ranges on the print out:

Front
Camber: -1.33° to 0.17°
Caster: 7.42° to 8.92°
Toe: 0.00° to 0.10°

Rear
Camber: -2.08° to -1.08°
Caster: 0.06° to 0.14°

AznSky

iTrader: (12)

So got the alignment on Saturday at the Nissan Dealership. The tech was hella cool and tried to get exaclty what I wanted. Kept on coming out to show me the numbers.

In the end here are my numbers:

Left Front..........................Right Front
-1.0°..........Camber.........-1.4°
8.4°...........Caster............8.5°
-0.01°.............Toe..............0.02°

Left Rear..........................Right Rear
-1.5°..........Camber.........-1.6°
0.01°...........Toe............0.00°

And this is WITHOUT a rear camber kit. So as you can see, S-Tech's can totally get back within spec without the rear camber kit (before was like -2.4).

However, we were both confused why my fronts were so different. And since the fronts are not adjustable, there was no way to make them more even. I dunno. Even so, I autocrossed the car yesterday and couldn't really feel a difference. Daily driving maybe the car tends to drift to the right, but it's most likely in my head.

Anyways, I'll monitor my tire wear, but since I'm running a square setup and can rotate all 4 wheels any which way, it'll be hard to notice the effect of camber difference.

Hope this helps you and anybody else.

Adrians07Z

damn ..


so the rear toe and camber should go back into spec


guess I'll be visiting firestone again to either get it fixed or money back

AznSky

iTrader: (12)

well I do have to say that I've heard from many people it depends on the car. Some cars can, some cars can't. So it may be it that your car can't.