Developing a FAQ page for Suspension
05-01-2005, 06:02 PM
#43
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Very quickly (and simply), the advantage of a non-linear (progressive rate) spring is the ability to give a softer ride when just driving normally, while stiffening up when you start to toss the car harder. As the car body rolls over, the spring becomes progressively stiffer, making it oppose further roll. It is trying to compromise between ride quality and body lean.
The down side is that it reacts to inputs like a soft spring, allowing more body lean before the stiffer rate begins to take effect, and it won’t feel as responsive to your steering requests.
This is a quick and simple explanation, but hopefully it will give you a basic idea.
The down side is that it reacts to inputs like a soft spring, allowing more body lean before the stiffer rate begins to take effect, and it won’t feel as responsive to your steering requests.
This is a quick and simple explanation, but hopefully it will give you a basic idea.
Last edited by racin; 05-01-2005 at 06:19 PM.
05-02-2005, 10:16 AM
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it might be a dumb question but i want to get the hotchkis sway bar and there's 3 different setting on it. could someone tell me whats the best setting for daily driver and for a few canyon run? thanks for all the help
05-04-2005, 10:01 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by hndumafia
i hope this isn't a dumb question but i know very little about suspensions.
i want to know what the difference is between getting coilovers and getting aftermarket shocks and springs? what are the pros and cons of each system?
also into which category would the nismo s-tune suspension?
tia,
Rajiv
i want to know what the difference is between getting coilovers and getting aftermarket shocks and springs? what are the pros and cons of each system?
also into which category would the nismo s-tune suspension?
tia,
Rajiv
05-05-2005, 03:52 PM
#46
Originally Posted by ncparamedic
Ive been wandering this same question but it has never been answered either...what is the answer???
Individually, you replace the springs with an aftermarket set like Hotchkis or Eibach, and the damper with another aftermarket like Koni. You could replace them both with the same brand, like with the NISMO suspension, but you would still be replacing both pieces seperately. This allows you to mix and match dampers and springs from various manufacturers as well as simply make a modest improvement via springs alone. Obviously, this aproach allows a better handle on the cost of your suspension upgrade, but also some control over the fine tuning. Say, replacing the dampers with a set of adjustable Koni's and the springs with whatever brand you prefer to go with them.
Coil-overs, however, are sold as a single unit (except the rears, just a moment on those..) The spring and damper are integrated together, which allows for some interesting benefits. The spring is held in place on the damper body by two collars, one atop and the other below. This allows ride hight to be adjusted by moving the spring further down the damper body. This in turn shortens the stroke of the damper by the same amount- not altogether a good thing. Some companies alleviate this by placing the damper on a threaded collar of its own, and it can by lowered on the mount without affecting stroke length. Either design would be imposible with a seperate spring and damper. Another benefit is gaining expert tuning of both damping rates and spring rates to work with each other for the best compromise in ride vs performance. In this area there is some judgment to be excercised from brand to brand. Some companies do this very well and would save you the hassle of trying to tune your own limited supply of dampers and springs, others ...won't. Do some research and use your best judgement. Coil-overs, because they are one unit, are often lighter than using a seperate spring and damper, saving on unsprun weight and improving response. They also usually take up less space. For the Z this is not a concern, but for vehicles with struts this can be. Finally, the rear of the Z utilizes, with most coil-overs, a seperate spring still because of the rear suspension design. The spring usually has a threaded collar to sit on to allow ride hight adjustment, while the damper sits in its own space outboard of the spring.
Finally, either set-up can utilize adjustable dampers to fine tune your handling, although monotube coil-overs generally offer more selectability bewteen rates. High end dampers on coil-overs will allow seperate rebound and bounce adjustment to further fine tune your handling.
Between the two options, it comes down to how much control and performance are you willing to gain for the money? Seperate springs and dampers can get you much better handling than stock, but fall short of the tunability and ultimate performance of a good set of coil-overs.
Will
05-05-2005, 07:14 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by Resolute
You have basically two options when it comes to replacing the springs and dampers on your suspension. You can either replace them individually, or as a single unit.
Individually, you replace the springs with an aftermarket set like Hotchkis or Eibach, and the damper with another aftermarket like Koni. You could replace them both with the same brand, like with the NISMO suspension, but you would still be replacing both pieces seperately. This allows you to mix and match dampers and springs from various manufacturers as well as simply make a modest improvement via springs alone. Obviously, this aproach allows a better handle on the cost of your suspension upgrade, but also some control over the fine tuning. Say, replacing the dampers with a set of adjustable Koni's and the springs with whatever brand you prefer to go with them.
Coil-overs, however, are sold as a single unit (except the rears, just a moment on those..) The spring and damper are integrated together, which allows for some interesting benefits. The spring is held in place on the damper body by two collars, one atop and the other below. This allows ride hight to be adjusted by moving the spring further down the damper body. This in turn shortens the stroke of the damper by the same amount- not altogether a good thing. Some companies alleviate this by placing the damper on a threaded collar of its own, and it can by lowered on the mount without affecting stroke length. Either design would be imposible with a seperate spring and damper. Another benefit is gaining expert tuning of both damping rates and spring rates to work with each other for the best compromise in ride vs performance. In this area there is some judgment to be excercised from brand to brand. Some companies do this very well and would save you the hassle of trying to tune your own limited supply of dampers and springs, others ...won't. Do some research and use your best judgement. Coil-overs, because they are one unit, are often lighter than using a seperate spring and damper, saving on unsprun weight and improving response. They also usually take up less space. For the Z this is not a concern, but for vehicles with struts this can be. Finally, the rear of the Z utilizes, with most coil-overs, a seperate spring still because of the rear suspension design. The spring usually has a threaded collar to sit on to allow ride hight adjustment, while the damper sits in its own space outboard of the spring.
Finally, either set-up can utilize adjustable dampers to fine tune your handling, although monotube coil-overs generally offer more selectability bewteen rates. High end dampers on coil-overs will allow seperate rebound and bounce adjustment to further fine tune your handling.
Between the two options, it comes down to how much control and performance are you willing to gain for the money? Seperate springs and dampers can get you much better handling than stock, but fall short of the tunability and ultimate performance of a good set of coil-overs.
Will
Individually, you replace the springs with an aftermarket set like Hotchkis or Eibach, and the damper with another aftermarket like Koni. You could replace them both with the same brand, like with the NISMO suspension, but you would still be replacing both pieces seperately. This allows you to mix and match dampers and springs from various manufacturers as well as simply make a modest improvement via springs alone. Obviously, this aproach allows a better handle on the cost of your suspension upgrade, but also some control over the fine tuning. Say, replacing the dampers with a set of adjustable Koni's and the springs with whatever brand you prefer to go with them.
Coil-overs, however, are sold as a single unit (except the rears, just a moment on those..) The spring and damper are integrated together, which allows for some interesting benefits. The spring is held in place on the damper body by two collars, one atop and the other below. This allows ride hight to be adjusted by moving the spring further down the damper body. This in turn shortens the stroke of the damper by the same amount- not altogether a good thing. Some companies alleviate this by placing the damper on a threaded collar of its own, and it can by lowered on the mount without affecting stroke length. Either design would be imposible with a seperate spring and damper. Another benefit is gaining expert tuning of both damping rates and spring rates to work with each other for the best compromise in ride vs performance. In this area there is some judgment to be excercised from brand to brand. Some companies do this very well and would save you the hassle of trying to tune your own limited supply of dampers and springs, others ...won't. Do some research and use your best judgement. Coil-overs, because they are one unit, are often lighter than using a seperate spring and damper, saving on unsprun weight and improving response. They also usually take up less space. For the Z this is not a concern, but for vehicles with struts this can be. Finally, the rear of the Z utilizes, with most coil-overs, a seperate spring still because of the rear suspension design. The spring usually has a threaded collar to sit on to allow ride hight adjustment, while the damper sits in its own space outboard of the spring.
Finally, either set-up can utilize adjustable dampers to fine tune your handling, although monotube coil-overs generally offer more selectability bewteen rates. High end dampers on coil-overs will allow seperate rebound and bounce adjustment to further fine tune your handling.
Between the two options, it comes down to how much control and performance are you willing to gain for the money? Seperate springs and dampers can get you much better handling than stock, but fall short of the tunability and ultimate performance of a good set of coil-overs.
Will
OK Now I know I am going with the S-tune suspension. I am up grading the front camber arms, rear camber arms and rear toe arms (they come all together).. oh and get a set of sways...
Now the S-tune suspension you said is a spring/shock combination. The equipment in this package cover both the front and back?? or just the front. Just by the picture it looks like a shock/spring combo and Im not really sure what the other item is next to the seperate spring.. OK im an idiot..
LOL..
Are there any other components that you can do to upgrade the suspension "Along" with these I just stated...
Thanks for all of your help...
05-06-2005, 10:10 AM
#48
Originally Posted by ncparamedic
Awsome post! But honestly..im still as confused as a goat on astro turf.
OK Now I know I am going with the S-tune suspension. I am up grading the front camber arms, rear camber arms and rear toe arms (they come all together).. oh and get a set of sways...
Now the S-tune suspension you said is a spring/shock combination. The equipment in this package cover both the front and back?? or just the front. Just by the picture it looks like a shock/spring combo and Im not really sure what the other item is next to the seperate spring.. OK im an idiot..
LOL..
Are there any other components that you can do to upgrade the suspension "Along" with these I just stated...
Thanks for all of your help...
OK Now I know I am going with the S-tune suspension. I am up grading the front camber arms, rear camber arms and rear toe arms (they come all together).. oh and get a set of sways...
Now the S-tune suspension you said is a spring/shock combination. The equipment in this package cover both the front and back?? or just the front. Just by the picture it looks like a shock/spring combo and Im not really sure what the other item is next to the seperate spring.. OK im an idiot..
LOL..
Are there any other components that you can do to upgrade the suspension "Along" with these I just stated...
Thanks for all of your help...
You are correct, the S-tune is a seperate damper and spring and not a coil-over. The package does cover both the front and rear sets. I am not sure what the other thing is you are referring to, could you post the picture? I looked at Performance Nissan's site and found thier picture of the NISMO suspension. If that is the same as you are referring to, the other item is the rear damper. The rear spring will not sit on the rear damper on the 350Z, it sits outboard of the spring on the lower control arm. The fronts are pictured with the spring already on the damper, similiar to a strut.
The only thing you didn't mention that I would recommend is anti-roll bars. There is a sticky on which bars people recommend elsewhere in this forum if you haven't checked it out.
You might want to search and see if other people with the S-tune recommend camber adjustments. They might not be neccesary. I don't have the S-tune, so I can't tell you if front and rear camber arms are needed, but they can't hurt.
Will
05-29-2005, 05:36 AM
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Keeping your vehicle stock or "OEM" if you desire smoothness. Performance has its price. From my experience coil-overs, generally speaking, are very noisy. Roads here in Nor Cal are some of the worst in the country. The word smoothness is no where near my vehicle. The other nite I took a woman out. Embarassed beyond recognition, I lost all eye contact with her when she questioned the bumpiness of my ride and the noise. At one point she said, "That, Richard, does not sound right at all." However handling performance is another thing. I whip around corners, take off like a rocket and the looks are super. I cannot tell you the compliments I get on the looks of my vehicle.
My next mod, you ask? Taking out the passenger
seat...thnks for reading all this, rich, san jose, ca
My next mod, you ask? Taking out the passenger
seat...thnks for reading all this, rich, san jose, ca
05-29-2005, 05:57 AM
#51
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Thats a good point..I didnt know that about coilovers. I think thats why Im going to go with an aftermarket spring/shock combo. I was thinking about the Tokico package. And Im not going to track my car but I do like the slightly lower look of after market springs.
05-29-2005, 06:54 AM
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Anyone from NC ought to do what they want . Have not done any research on Tokico's, but the lowering look is very clean looking, sharp--and with larger wheels--you cannot beat 
the appearance. By the way next set of tyres will be Bridgestone Potenza S03's. Pirelli's are hard as steel, taking forever to warm up, but, again, the appearance is sharp as a razor. All I need is a gorgeous model....rich, san jose, ca
. Have not done any research on Tokico's, but the lowering look is very clean looking, sharp--and with larger wheels--you cannot beat the appearance. By the way next set of tyres will be Bridgestone Potenza S03's. Pirelli's are hard as steel, taking forever to warm up, but, again, the appearance is sharp as a razor. All I need is a gorgeous model....rich, san jose, ca
05-29-2005, 07:04 AM
#53
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LOL!! you guys from Cali..I love to read your threads..you always keep me in stitches...So are the S03's really good? I was thinking of the Fuzions, which if im not mistaken is made by Bridgestone..Any word on those that you can think of?? I was thinking of wrapping these in either the Enkie RP03's or the SSR GT3's..just saw those today and man those are sharp..
05-29-2005, 07:23 AM
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ncpara: I forgot to add sway bars are a big help. I ran around with those for a while before going to Tein/EDFC sus. Anti-roll bars really take the "swing" or "rock" when angling around corners, curves, & ramps. S03's are a little more "sticky" and are highly rated (Tire Rack.com). I like the tread pattern. Michelin Pilots are not bad either. Fuzions, mfg by Bridgestone, are right there with S03's. Perfomance, I have heard, are very similar to S03's. Not sure of the pricing platforms, however. If S03's were not available, I would go with Fuzions or Michelin's Pilots. But for the price, performance and handling the S03, in my opinion, is the way to go. Finally, there is nothing like a Volk wheel. they are the best. I got a "deal" on the racing hearts, but if I had to do it again, I would stick with Volk wheels. They are the coolest looking and the best performing. rich, san jose, ca 
05-29-2005, 07:43 AM
#55
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I think the fuzions are priced around:
245/35 x 19" $150-$160
275/35 x 19" $180-$190 respectively..Im getting this price off of http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes....zion&model=ZRi
but you could probably get them cheaper somewhere else.
As for the Volk..oh my heart flutters for this wheel..well for the GT-AV..I think this is one of the most gorgeous wheels. I know everyone has their preference. For the wheels that have a lip, this is the one I want..but for the ones who dont..I love the Enkei RP03..Absolutely gorgeous. thanks again.
245/35 x 19" $150-$160
275/35 x 19" $180-$190 respectively..Im getting this price off of http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes....zion&model=ZRi
but you could probably get them cheaper somewhere else.
As for the Volk..oh my heart flutters for this wheel..well for the GT-AV..I think this is one of the most gorgeous wheels. I know everyone has their preference. For the wheels that have a lip, this is the one I want..but for the ones who dont..I love the Enkei RP03..Absolutely gorgeous. thanks again.
07-11-2005, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Resolute
You have basically two options when it comes to replacing the springs and dampers on your suspension. You can either replace them individually, or as a single unit.
Individually, you replace the springs with an aftermarket set like Hotchkis or Eibach, and the damper with another aftermarket like Koni. You could replace them both with the same brand, like with the NISMO suspension, but you would still be replacing both pieces seperately. This allows you to mix and match dampers and springs from various manufacturers as well as simply make a modest improvement via springs alone. Obviously, this aproach allows a better handle on the cost of your suspension upgrade, but also some control over the fine tuning. Say, replacing the dampers with a set of adjustable Koni's and the springs with whatever brand you prefer to go with them.
Coil-overs, however, are sold as a single unit (except the rears, just a moment on those..) The spring and damper are integrated together, which allows for some interesting benefits. The spring is held in place on the damper body by two collars, one atop and the other below. This allows ride hight to be adjusted by moving the spring further down the damper body. This in turn shortens the stroke of the damper by the same amount- not altogether a good thing. Some companies alleviate this by placing the damper on a threaded collar of its own, and it can by lowered on the mount without affecting stroke length. Either design would be imposible with a seperate spring and damper. Another benefit is gaining expert tuning of both damping rates and spring rates to work with each other for the best compromise in ride vs performance. In this area there is some judgment to be excercised from brand to brand. Some companies do this very well and would save you the hassle of trying to tune your own limited supply of dampers and springs, others ...won't. Do some research and use your best judgement. Coil-overs, because they are one unit, are often lighter than using a seperate spring and damper, saving on unsprun weight and improving response. They also usually take up less space. For the Z this is not a concern, but for vehicles with struts this can be. Finally, the rear of the Z utilizes, with most coil-overs, a seperate spring still because of the rear suspension design. The spring usually has a threaded collar to sit on to allow ride hight adjustment, while the damper sits in its own space outboard of the spring.
Finally, either set-up can utilize adjustable dampers to fine tune your handling, although monotube coil-overs generally offer more selectability bewteen rates. High end dampers on coil-overs will allow seperate rebound and bounce adjustment to further fine tune your handling.
Between the two options, it comes down to how much control and performance are you willing to gain for the money? Seperate springs and dampers can get you much better handling than stock, but fall short of the tunability and ultimate performance of a good set of coil-overs.
Will
Individually, you replace the springs with an aftermarket set like Hotchkis or Eibach, and the damper with another aftermarket like Koni. You could replace them both with the same brand, like with the NISMO suspension, but you would still be replacing both pieces seperately. This allows you to mix and match dampers and springs from various manufacturers as well as simply make a modest improvement via springs alone. Obviously, this aproach allows a better handle on the cost of your suspension upgrade, but also some control over the fine tuning. Say, replacing the dampers with a set of adjustable Koni's and the springs with whatever brand you prefer to go with them.
Coil-overs, however, are sold as a single unit (except the rears, just a moment on those..) The spring and damper are integrated together, which allows for some interesting benefits. The spring is held in place on the damper body by two collars, one atop and the other below. This allows ride hight to be adjusted by moving the spring further down the damper body. This in turn shortens the stroke of the damper by the same amount- not altogether a good thing. Some companies alleviate this by placing the damper on a threaded collar of its own, and it can by lowered on the mount without affecting stroke length. Either design would be imposible with a seperate spring and damper. Another benefit is gaining expert tuning of both damping rates and spring rates to work with each other for the best compromise in ride vs performance. In this area there is some judgment to be excercised from brand to brand. Some companies do this very well and would save you the hassle of trying to tune your own limited supply of dampers and springs, others ...won't. Do some research and use your best judgement. Coil-overs, because they are one unit, are often lighter than using a seperate spring and damper, saving on unsprun weight and improving response. They also usually take up less space. For the Z this is not a concern, but for vehicles with struts this can be. Finally, the rear of the Z utilizes, with most coil-overs, a seperate spring still because of the rear suspension design. The spring usually has a threaded collar to sit on to allow ride hight adjustment, while the damper sits in its own space outboard of the spring.
Finally, either set-up can utilize adjustable dampers to fine tune your handling, although monotube coil-overs generally offer more selectability bewteen rates. High end dampers on coil-overs will allow seperate rebound and bounce adjustment to further fine tune your handling.
Between the two options, it comes down to how much control and performance are you willing to gain for the money? Seperate springs and dampers can get you much better handling than stock, but fall short of the tunability and ultimate performance of a good set of coil-overs.
Will
? Thanks a lot! P.S. I'm also going to be getting Hotchkiss sways which will definitely help. Thanks!
07-11-2005, 07:42 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by Fletch69z
That was an awesome post and answered my question for the most part. Here's the remainder of my question. I'm thinking of going with a spring/shock seperate combo. I'm a newbie to suspension modding and want to do it right. However, I don't have the biggest budget in the world. I do love driving my car on the twisties but don't track it regularly. I have no problem with a stiff ride. Ok, so, I want to lower my car but not so much that I need a camber kit. I have heard that about a 1" drop is the max you can do without needing a camber kit (plus, I want to be able to actually drive my car without bottoming out-which I know is also very dependent on your damper settings). Is this true? If so what spring/shock combo would you guru's recommend, ? Thanks a lot!
P.S. I'm also going to be getting Hotchkiss sways which will definitely help. Thanks!
? Thanks a lot! P.S. I'm also going to be getting Hotchkiss sways which will definitely help. Thanks!
07-11-2005, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ncparamedic
Wow there are quite a few! the most popular being Nismos S-tune, Tokico Dspec, Koni's....then you have bilstein and it keeps going. Im going with the Tokico Dspec shock/struts and with the Eibach pro kit springs. Lowers 1 inch. Im also replacing the front control arm with a Cusco unit and the rear camber arms with the SPC arm/and toe bolt. Even though i wont be lowering it more than 1" I like having the adjustability and the option if i want to in the future. Good luck and let us know.
Fletch
07-11-2005, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ncparamedic
Wow there are quite a few! the most popular being Nismos S-tune, Tokico Dspec, Koni's....then you have bilstein and it keeps going. Im going with the Tokico Dspec shock/struts and with the Eibach pro kit springs. Lowers 1 inch. Im also replacing the front control arm with a Cusco unit and the rear camber arms with the SPC arm/and toe bolt. Even though i wont be lowering it more than 1" I like having the adjustability and the option if i want to in the future. Good luck and let us know.
.
07-11-2005, 11:24 PM
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Not stupid..no sense in buying stuff your either not going to need or is for the wrong setup. Im by no means an expert. I have learned everything from these guys here, then just formulated my own opinion.
The Eibach sports are going to lower your car about 1.2" the pro kit will do it about 1". After 1" you begin loosing your camber and to correct that you will need the rear camber arms and Spc toe bolt and the front control arm (350EVO,Cusco(me), kenetix or stillen).
As for shocks, I like Tokico Dspec (thats what im getting).You have the 16 point ride adjustability. The marriage is good with the eibach pro kit combination. Im not sure about the eibach sportline. Ive read that Koni's are a good shock also. Its all about preference though. I hope this helps. Read old threads and ask around on the forum. If they blow you off as a newbie, the heck with them. Trust me i had the same questions and so did they..lol...
The Eibach sports are going to lower your car about 1.2" the pro kit will do it about 1". After 1" you begin loosing your camber and to correct that you will need the rear camber arms and Spc toe bolt and the front control arm (350EVO,Cusco(me
), kenetix or stillen). As for shocks, I like Tokico Dspec (thats what im getting).You have the 16 point ride adjustability. The marriage is good with the eibach pro kit combination. Im not sure about the eibach sportline. Ive read that Koni's are a good shock also. Its all about preference though. I hope this helps. Read old threads and ask around on the forum. If they blow you off as a newbie, the heck with them. Trust me i had the same questions and so did they..lol...