I am quite sure that among the members we could organize break shoot out.

I think the members would be quite surprised how similarly all the current brake kits perform to one another when all the factors are equal (wheels, tire and tire pressure).

ALL of the firms mentioned in this thread offer top quality items, and having used each of them on both customer cars as well as my own personal cars, I have been hard pressed to find the differences among them in real world use. I have personally owned Alcon AP, Brembo setups before on my own cars, and will soon add Endless to that list on my own car. Each of them are in the brake business full time, and each are widely used in competition...I don't think any of us could argue that substantial R&D is present with each of the companies.



We have fitted Stoptech, AP, Alcon, Brembo and Wilwood in various configurations (4 and 6 pot) to customer cars (mainly WRX's) and each have performed well.

As for rear systems, I will say this much: on the track, in a long session, yes might be able to notice a difference on some cars. I have not tracked nearly as many Z's as I ahve WRX's, but I found a much larger threshold of difference by playing with lines than I did playing with 2 and 4 wheel big brake setups. I have been racing for nearly 10 years now (ameteur), and have since come to appreciate minimal use of the brakes is still the best bet! On our ITS car, we run (due to class rules) stock brakes around (E30).......I have yet to reach the limits of the stock setup.

On the street - the BBK rears are largely for looks only truth be told (flame suit on and zipped). That is NOT to say there is not a place for them - there can certainly be, and its good to see we have the options available to us!

For me, I am not getting a rear kit because its simply not in the budget, and being largely a street car, I most certainly do not have the need.

 

Nah, no heat in here. I typically don't tangle with others, but I'm up for a good debate as much as anyone. I respect DocofMind, since I know he's helped a lot of people out...I've heard good things over the last couple of years on S2ki.com. I don't harbor any ill will to him. He seems like a good salesman trying to do the right thing. Maybe he just needs to expand his product line a little bit and think about offering some different options like StopTech. I always feel a little bad after I get into a debate with someone though. I don't want to be a jerk...I just take my job very seriously, since I gave up a lot to do it, and I'm very proud of the people I work with and what they've done. I believe that they are doing things the right way.

zzzya,
It's fairly impossible to request a specific date in manufacturing. Any manufacturer is at the mercy of their suppliers for delivery. It sucks, but it's reality. Also, priorities are constantly changing. That said, I'll give you a date of...some day after tomorrow, and before 2007. Just kidding. My most realistic guess on our rear 13" kit would be some time in May or June. I thought it would be sooner, but our 6 piston caliper has taken higher priority. Before any one asks, no, the 6 piston will most likely not be used in a Z application!

LBC TRD,
Thanks for the input. Some of the debates/arguments that blow up on the internet are really ridiculous...although I can't imagine not being passionate about brakes!


Z1 Performance,
A brake shootout, done properly, requires a lot of time, money, and planning. The procedures have to be controlled as much as possible.

As for BBK's not being beneficial on the street...you won't get any flames from me. The stock Z's brakes have enough heat capacity for daily driving. Going to the track leaps far outside of what they were designed to do unfortunately. The car is heavy, and more importantly, fairly fast. It gets from turn to turn quickly, and needs to be hauled down from high speeds at times.
As for front only systems and the need for rear brakes. I agree with you there too. Our World Challenge cars run front only setups with smaller rotors than ANY of our Z applications. They weigh a little less, but they're faster. Since velocity squared is where the need really comes from, and they are fine on our front only kits, the Z doesn't need a rear kit. I run our 332 front only kit with no problems.
That said, the Z has more rear bias than many cars, and the rear pads of the non-Track Models are the size of a postage stamp. They wear out a bit faster than on other cars, and people don't like to replace them. Personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal. There are many that do, and that's where the need for the rear kit is coming from. We're trying to provide a solution to those that asked for it.

If I had to buy a rear kit at retail price, I would seriously consider not doing so. I'd figure out what it would cost me in pads on the rear ($50 per set on average?) * how many sets I would go through per season based on the number of track days I planned on attending * the number of years I planned on owning the car. Factor in pain, suffering, and time committment to actually do the pad change (not too great)...there's your answer on whether it's worth it or not. At $2000 for a rear brake kit, that's 40 sets of rear pads at $50. Even if you go through 8 sets of pads in a season, it would take you 5 years to payoff your brake kit. In the meantime with the bbk, you would have to be spending money on rear pads anyway...just not at quite as fast of a rate. The difference in pad cost between the bigger rear pad on the bbk has to be factored in...probably $15-20 at least per set. Rotors are also consumed in both scenarios...the bigger rear rotors for a bbk cost more as well.
I'm just giving one example...there a million things to consider. Don't you just love modding cars?

 

Thanks for all the input. I am sure that a 4 wheel kit is not needed. Heck, I am sure that simply upgrading pads and lines is really all that one would truly need to due for much better performance, but I am looking for other reasons. I want a kit that will perform well, look great and still maintain all of the stock safety features. I want the rear kit more for looks than anything else. Nice calipers with some sick rotors. Its not a matter of need, but want. Money is only money, but the car looking its best while improving breaking, thats priceless.

 

Question for Docofmind, I ran across this site http://www.350zbrakes.com/ at another forum which shows a 14" Willwood kit that fits under the stock 17" wheels. How is this kit different than the one you are offering? Also what makes this setup special so that the 14" kit fits under the 17" wheels? This is very interesting to me since I have 19" LE37Ts for summer, but put my stock 17s on for winter use and would love to have a little more rotor showing with the 19s on.

 

J Ritt: I'd like to meet up w/ you some time, my parents live in Palos Verdes so im up there quite a bit, I'm in LB for school.. i'd like to see your setup and I'm sure you'd be interested in mine.. let's set something up.

 

J, first of all, let me say thank you for your words. Coming from your side, it really does mean a lot. One thing that I have always strived to maintain in my business ethics is honesty. I have never sold anything that I woudlnt put on my own car.

I also wanted to thank you for keeping things civil. I never ever crash anyones threads in order to push any of my products. My only reason for even intervening here was to set the record straight. Technical info is a wonderful tool, but much like statistics, if the data is irrelevant, so are the results.

I take my s2000 out to the local tracks often for a beating, hopefully in the near future we can go to one together and shake hands.

 

Im very glad you ask this because there are quite a few differences between our kits that really does IMO, make a big difference.

As J mentioned earlier in this thread, there are many vendors out there that piece parts together using Wilwood calipers and other components. This is one case in point. The calipers are from Wilwood while the rotors, I believe, are from Coleman. All of our rotors are sourced directly from Wilwood, including the new 72 vane 14" rotor that we use for the 350Z. This rotor is the newest release from Wilwood and the most efficient and structurally rigid they have ever made.

Above and beyond that, the actual rotor diameter of their kit is a 13.6, not quite a 14". More importantly, the caliper that they use is their old 6 piston caliper. The newer one used in our kit is not only stronger and more rigid than the previous generation, but is also a radial mount design.

Also, there are the little minor details like the design of our hats. The scallops you see on the outer edges are designed to further promote cooling. Then of course, there are the brake lines. Ours are exact duplicates of the OEM set up. All three pieces of them for each side.

 

Wow - could it be that this is one of the first truly productive posts I have seen in awhile?

J - thanks for the insight - its good to see a manufacturer be honest in this biz, as its such a rareity. I totally understand the whole "market dictates production" theme you refer to.

I am in the same boat as you in that I saw zero need practically speaking for a BBK for the rear. Fronts though I can definately make use of even in street use, hence my selection of one. Hopefully my choice yields good results!

Adam

 

I have been pondering another thought. Since the rotors can really make the look, how about going with a 13" kit upfront with the nicer calipers and such, but upgrade the rear rotors, pads, and maybe lines. I'm thinking some nice drilled rotors or drilled and slotted would look great. That way you have the functionality of the front kit but keep the looks from front to back with the rotors without dishing out as much money. Is is possible to get rotors like that for the stock non-brembro rears that would match a 13" kit in appearance and not size? If so, how much are they?