I'm a new salesman
07-14-2006, 10:14 AM
#41
Registered User
Look guys, dealerships are businesses. Their objective is to earn a profit. And if they don't, they won't be around to sell and service cars anyway.
And salesmen (with rare exceptions) are paid on commission, and the commision is usually tied to profit margin on a deal. So a salesman can't survive unless he writes deals tht turn a profit.
And to be sure, buyers lie. They lie to each other about how much they paid for a car, just like they lie about golf, fishing, and sex.
And they lie to salesmen. They lie about other offers, their trade-in, their finances, etc.
And dealerships and salesmen, well, sometimes some dealerships mislead some buyers.
Don't expect your sales guy to tell you about the dealer holdback, or to explain that the "doc fee" is just a supplement to increase the gross on a deal.
Unlike a few years ago, buyers now have access to tons of info about cars,prices, and how manufacturers and dealers work together. If you want a good deal on a car, do your homework Use the internet ( and don't expect to get any real advice from message boards!). Contact several dealers and compare their offer. And if a dealer isn't willing to work with you by phone or email, I would scratch him off my list. (Anytime I hear "C'mon in and well see what we can do", that's the end of that inquiry.) JMHO
But, some buyers like that game. And as long as buyers buy cars that way, dealers will continue to sell them that way.
bill
And salesmen (with rare exceptions) are paid on commission, and the commision is usually tied to profit margin on a deal. So a salesman can't survive unless he writes deals tht turn a profit.
And to be sure, buyers lie. They lie to each other about how much they paid for a car, just like they lie about golf, fishing, and sex.
And they lie to salesmen. They lie about other offers, their trade-in, their finances, etc.
And dealerships and salesmen, well, sometimes some dealerships mislead some buyers.
Don't expect your sales guy to tell you about the dealer holdback, or to explain that the "doc fee" is just a supplement to increase the gross on a deal.Unlike a few years ago, buyers now have access to tons of info about cars,prices, and how manufacturers and dealers work together. If you want a good deal on a car, do your homework Use the internet ( and don't expect to get any real advice from message boards!). Contact several dealers and compare their offer. And if a dealer isn't willing to work with you by phone or email, I would scratch him off my list. (Anytime I hear "C'mon in and well see what we can do", that's the end of that inquiry.) JMHO
But, some buyers like that game. And as long as buyers buy cars that way, dealers will continue to sell them that way.
bill
Last edited by bailey bill; 07-14-2006 at 10:42 AM.
07-14-2006, 10:45 AM
#42
Registered User
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: PETERSBURG,VIRGINIA
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bailey bill
Look guys, dealerships are businesses. Their objective is to earn a profit. And if they don't, they won't be around to sell and service cars anyway.
And salesmen (with rare exceptions) are paid on commission, and the commision is usually tied to profit margin on a deal. So a salesman can't survive unless he writes deals tht turn a profit.
And to be sure, buyers lie. They lie to each other about how much they paid for a car, just like they lie about golf, fishing, and sex.
And they lie to salesmen. They lie about other offers, their trade-in, their finances, etc.
And dealerships and salesmen, well, sometimes some dealerships mislead some buyers. Don't expect your sales guy to tell you about the dealer holdback, or to explain that the "doc fee" is just a supplement to increase the gross on a deal.
Unlike a few years ago, buyers now have access to tons of info about cars,prices, and how manufacturers and dealers work together. If you want a good deal on a car, do your homework Use the internet ( and don't expect to get any real advice from message boards!). Contact several dealers and compare their offer. And if a dealer isn't willing to work with you by phone or email, I would scratch him off my list. (Anytime I hear "C'mon in and well see what we can do", that's the end of that inquiry.) JMHO
But, some buyers like that game. And as long as buyers buy cars that way, dealers will continue to sell them that way.
bill
And salesmen (with rare exceptions) are paid on commission, and the commision is usually tied to profit margin on a deal. So a salesman can't survive unless he writes deals tht turn a profit.
And to be sure, buyers lie. They lie to each other about how much they paid for a car, just like they lie about golf, fishing, and sex.
And they lie to salesmen. They lie about other offers, their trade-in, their finances, etc.
And dealerships and salesmen, well, sometimes some dealerships mislead some buyers.
Don't expect your sales guy to tell you about the dealer holdback, or to explain that the "doc fee" is just a supplement to increase the gross on a deal.Unlike a few years ago, buyers now have access to tons of info about cars,prices, and how manufacturers and dealers work together. If you want a good deal on a car, do your homework Use the internet ( and don't expect to get any real advice from message boards!). Contact several dealers and compare their offer. And if a dealer isn't willing to work with you by phone or email, I would scratch him off my list. (Anytime I hear "C'mon in and well see what we can do", that's the end of that inquiry.) JMHO
But, some buyers like that game. And as long as buyers buy cars that way, dealers will continue to sell them that way.
bill
07-14-2006, 07:22 PM
#45
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bailey bill
Look guys, dealerships are businesses. Their objective is to earn a profit. And if they don't, they won't be around to sell and service cars anyway.
And salesmen (with rare exceptions) are paid on commission, and the commision is usually tied to profit margin on a deal. So a salesman can't survive unless he writes deals tht turn a profit.
And to be sure, buyers lie. They lie to each other about how much they paid for a car, just like they lie about golf, fishing, and sex.
And they lie to salesmen. They lie about other offers, their trade-in, their finances, etc.
And dealerships and salesmen, well, sometimes some dealerships mislead some buyers. Don't expect your sales guy to tell you about the dealer holdback, or to explain that the "doc fee" is just a supplement to increase the gross on a deal.
Unlike a few years ago, buyers now have access to tons of info about cars,prices, and how manufacturers and dealers work together. If you want a good deal on a car, do your homework Use the internet ( and don't expect to get any real advice from message boards!). Contact several dealers and compare their offer. And if a dealer isn't willing to work with you by phone or email, I would scratch him off my list. (Anytime I hear "C'mon in and well see what we can do", that's the end of that inquiry.) JMHO
But, some buyers like that game. And as long as buyers buy cars that way, dealers will continue to sell them that way.
bill
And salesmen (with rare exceptions) are paid on commission, and the commision is usually tied to profit margin on a deal. So a salesman can't survive unless he writes deals tht turn a profit.
And to be sure, buyers lie. They lie to each other about how much they paid for a car, just like they lie about golf, fishing, and sex.
And they lie to salesmen. They lie about other offers, their trade-in, their finances, etc.
And dealerships and salesmen, well, sometimes some dealerships mislead some buyers.
Don't expect your sales guy to tell you about the dealer holdback, or to explain that the "doc fee" is just a supplement to increase the gross on a deal.Unlike a few years ago, buyers now have access to tons of info about cars,prices, and how manufacturers and dealers work together. If you want a good deal on a car, do your homework Use the internet ( and don't expect to get any real advice from message boards!). Contact several dealers and compare their offer. And if a dealer isn't willing to work with you by phone or email, I would scratch him off my list. (Anytime I hear "C'mon in and well see what we can do", that's the end of that inquiry.) JMHO
But, some buyers like that game. And as long as buyers buy cars that way, dealers will continue to sell them that way.
bill
one exception though.. it is sometimes hard to give accurate monthly payments to a customer over the phone.. they need to come in so we can check their credit.. without that, we dont know the interest rate they would be getting and if there are any additional bank fees.. so can we give estimates over the phone? yes.. will they be accurate? not 100%
07-15-2006, 05:32 AM
#46
Registered User
But you DON'T need credit info to determine the PRICE.
Yes, I realize many buyers are shopping payments instead of price. But my advice to buyers is find a dealer who offers you a fair price, then negotiate the loan deal.
And buyers who shop payments instead of price are just asking to get bent over. Not all of those sales guys out there are as honest as you and John.
bill
Yes, I realize many buyers are shopping payments instead of price. But my advice to buyers is find a dealer who offers you a fair price, then negotiate the loan deal.
And buyers who shop payments instead of price are just asking to get bent over. Not all of those sales guys out there are as honest as you and John.
bill
07-15-2006, 03:46 PM
#47
Registered User
iTrader: (30)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 821
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll be getting an 06 350z Touring for 33k including my trade-in. I owe 18333 and they only want 16200 for it. I need to down 2k to be able to get it 33k otd. Is this a good deal?
07-15-2006, 08:36 PM
#49
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Spoiled Z
I'll be getting an 06 350z Touring for 33k including my trade-in. I owe 18333 and they only want 16200 for it. I need to down 2k to be able to get it 33k otd. Is this a good deal?
07-16-2006, 01:16 PM
#50
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: bi coastal
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bailey bill
C'mon David. Many dealers will go below "dealer invoice", and no they DON'T lose money.
I paid $500 below invoice, plus a $300 "doc fee", so it was a net $200 below invoice. And they delivered the car, 140 miles, no charge. And no, they didn't lose money.
bill
I paid $500 below invoice, plus a $300 "doc fee", so it was a net $200 below invoice. And they delivered the car, 140 miles, no charge. And no, they didn't lose money.
bill
07-17-2006, 01:15 PM
#51
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Overland Park, Ks
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jackie chan
doc fees, most of the time, are for dealers that cant keep their expenses in line. i hate them....because i dont get paid on them. 
In 10 years I haven't seen a dealership in Kansas that doesn't have doc fees.
07-20-2006, 01:03 PM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by John@Victory
you were logged in for 1 hor and 15 minutes.. i didnt misinform of anything..
holdback is not roughly 500 dollars... it is 2.8% of invoice... so holdback is going to range anywhere from 450 dollars to 1400 dollars... you shouldnt be posting stuff you are not 100% surea about. you dont even know what holdback is or how to figure it or what its designed for. and then you post that someone is correct about 3 different prices.... you are a dealer, some people actually believe you when you post stuff... no you have a guy that you just reaffirmed his belief that the invoice isnt the true amount the dealer paid for the car...
and if you really knew anything about the car bussiness you would know thats not the case. dealers pay invoice just like anyone else.. we just have certain incentives if we sell the cars in timely a fassion.
next thing you will be doing is talking about PACK, FLOORPLAN, MARKETING ASSISTANCE, RETRO MONEY and every other car term which you know nothing about..
Im glad you are in the bussiness and like it, but dont spread misinformation out there. Dealers already have a bad enough name
holdback is not roughly 500 dollars... it is 2.8% of invoice... so holdback is going to range anywhere from 450 dollars to 1400 dollars... you shouldnt be posting stuff you are not 100% surea about. you dont even know what holdback is or how to figure it or what its designed for. and then you post that someone is correct about 3 different prices.... you are a dealer, some people actually believe you when you post stuff... no you have a guy that you just reaffirmed his belief that the invoice isnt the true amount the dealer paid for the car...
and if you really knew anything about the car bussiness you would know thats not the case. dealers pay invoice just like anyone else.. we just have certain incentives if we sell the cars in timely a fassion.
next thing you will be doing is talking about PACK, FLOORPLAN, MARKETING ASSISTANCE, RETRO MONEY and every other car term which you know nothing about..
Im glad you are in the bussiness and like it, but dont spread misinformation out there. Dealers already have a bad enough name
I just checked off one more dealership I WOULD NEVER buy a car from now....thanks again
07-20-2006, 01:08 PM
#55
Registered User
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: PETERSBURG,VIRGINIA
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by zoeybadm
Yes, dealer have a bad name because of people like you who are annoying and disrespectful to individuals..........thanks and have a nice day.
I just checked off one more dealership I WOULD NEVER buy a car from now....thanks again
I just checked off one more dealership I WOULD NEVER buy a car from now....thanks again
im an ******* because i speak the truth and get on other guys for putting bad info out there? i guess you would rather have things candy coated and in the end find out you got screwed?
get a life....
im so upset someone in cali wont come into va and buy a car from me
07-20-2006, 01:18 PM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by John@Victory
im an ******* because i speak the truth and get on other guys for putting bad info out there? i guess you would rather have things candy coated and in the end find out you got screwed?
get a life....
im so upset someone in cali wont come into va and buy a car from me
get a life....
im so upset someone in cali wont come into va and buy a car from me
You would give your left nut to sell cars at the rate that cars are sold in CA..........
You don't even speak the truth to be quite frank. Unless you have first hand knowledge of every car sale then you have no basis for saying that 1% of all sales are below invoice.
When I buy cars I just play the dealerships off of each other making them underbid each other....make you guys scurry around like tools.
To date I have never flexed on my OTD offers (i.e. never had to increase my offer) to get a car and/or truck.
07-20-2006, 02:04 PM
#57
Registered User
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: PETERSBURG,VIRGINIA
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by zoeybadm
Cry me a river Argentina..............sugar coat nothing. I know all dealership employees are useless piles of ahem...........I would never buy a car from a crap shack likes yours.
You would give your left nut to sell cars at the rate that cars are sold in CA..........
You don't even speak the truth to be quite frank. Unless you have first hand knowledge of every car sale then you have no basis for saying that 1% of all sales are below invoice.
When I buy cars I just play the dealerships off of each other making them underbid each other....make you guys scurry around like tools.
To date I have never flexed on my OTD offers (i.e. never had to increase my offer) to get a car and/or truck.
You would give your left nut to sell cars at the rate that cars are sold in CA..........
You don't even speak the truth to be quite frank. Unless you have first hand knowledge of every car sale then you have no basis for saying that 1% of all sales are below invoice.
When I buy cars I just play the dealerships off of each other making them underbid each other....make you guys scurry around like tools.
To date I have never flexed on my OTD offers (i.e. never had to increase my offer) to get a car and/or truck.
actually i didnt say 1%.... reading comprehension could be your friend if you let it be... i said ONE TENTH OF ONE PERCENT ..... wont you learn to read..
actually its not the car dealers that are scum.... you would see scum by simply looking into the mirror.... and working for the 47th largest dealer in the country i think i know what selling volume is....
go back to sitting on your boyfriends lap giving him pleasure
07-20-2006, 02:38 PM
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Anna, Texas
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I sure hope I can get them to come down, but I would love to know real values and numbers.
My mom wanted a SUV last June. She first looked as Chevy due to the rebates. Got a loaded 5 passenger Trailblazer with the V6 down to 24k after rebates but before taxes and what not.
Well my mother than went over to Isuzu because they where offering the same deals because for right now they are a GM clone. Asked them to come up with a similar suv loaded and come down to 22k instead, because the Ascender started 2k cheaper than the trail blazer. We where thinking they where going to laugh and we would be on our way. They took the deal.
The truck originally MSRP for 34k they dropped it to 23k. After taxes and what not it went up to 25.8k.
They took a good 11k hit from the original MSRP and where fine with it. So the dealership still made money on this. We took the car up to carmax and they where going to offer 29.8 for it. I find it kind of funny that we could have made a profit from the truck. I’m sure someone’s BS meter is going off, but if your allowed to see records then ask the right people at Crest Isuzu of I75 and look it up. It would be a blue Ascender sold in June of 2005 (Early June).
I know Isuzu is hurting and maybe that’s why they accepted the deal, but how at 11k loss can you explain they sold the car. Like I said before we totally expected them to laugh and tell us to leave. But we where amazed at a 11k loss and they still had to have made money.
Feel free to comment to this for all the people in the feild. Maybe some people who know people that sell Isuzu can explain this to me, im lost.
My mom wanted a SUV last June. She first looked as Chevy due to the rebates. Got a loaded 5 passenger Trailblazer with the V6 down to 24k after rebates but before taxes and what not.
Well my mother than went over to Isuzu because they where offering the same deals because for right now they are a GM clone. Asked them to come up with a similar suv loaded and come down to 22k instead, because the Ascender started 2k cheaper than the trail blazer. We where thinking they where going to laugh and we would be on our way. They took the deal.
The truck originally MSRP for 34k they dropped it to 23k. After taxes and what not it went up to 25.8k.
They took a good 11k hit from the original MSRP and where fine with it. So the dealership still made money on this. We took the car up to carmax and they where going to offer 29.8 for it. I find it kind of funny that we could have made a profit from the truck. I’m sure someone’s BS meter is going off, but if your allowed to see records then ask the right people at Crest Isuzu of I75 and look it up. It would be a blue Ascender sold in June of 2005 (Early June).
I know Isuzu is hurting and maybe that’s why they accepted the deal, but how at 11k loss can you explain they sold the car. Like I said before we totally expected them to laugh and tell us to leave. But we where amazed at a 11k loss and they still had to have made money.
Feel free to comment to this for all the people in the feild. Maybe some people who know people that sell Isuzu can explain this to me, im lost.
07-20-2006, 03:18 PM
#59
Registered User
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: PETERSBURG,VIRGINIA
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by HardTech
I sure hope I can get them to come down, but I would love to know real values and numbers.
My mom wanted a SUV last June. She first looked as Chevy due to the rebates. Got a loaded 5 passenger Trailblazer with the V6 down to 24k after rebates but before taxes and what not.
Well my mother than went over to Isuzu because they where offering the same deals because for right now they are a GM clone. Asked them to come up with a similar suv loaded and come down to 22k instead, because the Ascender started 2k cheaper than the trail blazer. We where thinking they where going to laugh and we would be on our way. They took the deal.
The truck originally MSRP for 34k they dropped it to 23k. After taxes and what not it went up to 25.8k.
They took a good 11k hit from the original MSRP and where fine with it. So the dealership still made money on this. We took the car up to carmax and they where going to offer 29.8 for it. I find it kind of funny that we could have made a profit from the truck. I’m sure someone’s BS meter is going off, but if your allowed to see records then ask the right people at Crest Isuzu of I75 and look it up. It would be a blue Ascender sold in June of 2005 (Early June).
I know Isuzu is hurting and maybe that’s why they accepted the deal, but how at 11k loss can you explain they sold the car. Like I said before we totally expected them to laugh and tell us to leave. But we where amazed at a 11k loss and they still had to have made money.
Feel free to comment to this for all the people in the feild. Maybe some people who know people that sell Isuzu can explain this to me, im lost.
My mom wanted a SUV last June. She first looked as Chevy due to the rebates. Got a loaded 5 passenger Trailblazer with the V6 down to 24k after rebates but before taxes and what not.
Well my mother than went over to Isuzu because they where offering the same deals because for right now they are a GM clone. Asked them to come up with a similar suv loaded and come down to 22k instead, because the Ascender started 2k cheaper than the trail blazer. We where thinking they where going to laugh and we would be on our way. They took the deal.
The truck originally MSRP for 34k they dropped it to 23k. After taxes and what not it went up to 25.8k.
They took a good 11k hit from the original MSRP and where fine with it. So the dealership still made money on this. We took the car up to carmax and they where going to offer 29.8 for it. I find it kind of funny that we could have made a profit from the truck. I’m sure someone’s BS meter is going off, but if your allowed to see records then ask the right people at Crest Isuzu of I75 and look it up. It would be a blue Ascender sold in June of 2005 (Early June).
I know Isuzu is hurting and maybe that’s why they accepted the deal, but how at 11k loss can you explain they sold the car. Like I said before we totally expected them to laugh and tell us to leave. But we where amazed at a 11k loss and they still had to have made money.
Feel free to comment to this for all the people in the feild. Maybe some people who know people that sell Isuzu can explain this to me, im lost.
Last edited by John@Victory; 07-21-2006 at 04:59 AM.
07-20-2006, 04:34 PM
#60
hey , new toyota salesperson here, my summer job...eh not too bad, got lots to learn and john here obviously knows what he's talking about...nyways the truth is often the salespeople don't kno all the fact, figures, specifics and are there essentially to represent hte dealership to the costumer the best they can...some do it better than others, thats it, others need a lot of help from closers...such as new guys...yours trully right here. Anyways comments such as those made by zoeybadm are extremelly disrespectful and just down right rude/******* in nature, most salespeople make money of commission only and have bills to pay, food to buy, loans to pay, etc. list goes on, but essentially they are simply trying to make a buck for themselves and its inevitable. If anyone wants to ***** at the dealers , please don't do so at the salespeople, I am a very self respecting individual and can certainly sleep well at night after work, but the truth is salespeople only get a SMALL slice of the profit of the sale, but get all the heat for being dirtbags and money grabbing basterds, etc. Anyways i kno ill b doing my reaserch before I purchase a car, I'll certainly make sure the dealership makes as little money of me as possible, but if I find a respectful salesperson, he will certainly receive a tip on my part....but thats just me.