Antwerpman

Here, I'll give you some ammunition. You have been at this a LOT longer than I have. I've been selling for a year. I started a week after my 18th birthday last year in August.

Now here's something for you. You keep saying I'm spreading lies about how this business operates. In my first post I made no mention of how the heiarchy of the staff is paid, I was asking these guys to listen to me and give consumer feedback about paying more for their cars so their car salesman can make more money if they deserve it. You started bashing that with all your how much a salesman can make.

The other thing, I just turned 19... and you resorted to name calling. Age really is just a number, grow up.

jtabraham

iTrader: (46)

That means Round 1 goes to you John!

Yeah, your absolutely right. this guy that's coming in and giving a "sob" story and constantly change the details are just reinforcing already bad perceptions of salesman.

This is kinda what i picture Antwepman to look like now:

John@Victory

iTrader: (36)

PLAIN AND SMPLE FACT IS YOU DONT KNOW HOW THE CAR BUSSINES IS OR OPERATES. HELL YOU CANT EVEN DO MATH... WHEN I TOLD YOU THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT GETS ONLY 2-4% YOU SAID THAT A 2K BACK END GROSS WAS STILL MORE THAN THE 100 DOLLAR FLAT...****, YOU EVEN SUCK AT MATH...

AGE DOES HAVE EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THIS, AS ARENT EVEN OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW THE ROPES OF THE CAR BUSSINESS....

AND SINCE WE ARE GOING ON ABOUT HOW YOU LIED? YOU LIED ABOUT THE VPP ON YOUR Z TOO! VPP ON D-PLAN(DEALERSHIP EMPLOYEES) ONLY SAVES YOU 982 DOLLARS UNDER INVOICE AND THAT IS ON A 41K DOLLAR Z!!!! THAT IS FAR FROM THE 1500 YOU STATED AND RIGHT AT THE 1K I QUOTED...

MAYBE YOU ARENT LYING, BUT YOU SURE AS HELL DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

Antwerpman

Fine, you are right. I was wrong. You know more about this business than I do. When my new GM was discussing his VPP pricing I heard $1,500 under Invoice. With the 2%-4% from what I understood that was from dealership gross, not back end gross from one deal. So with several $2,000 back end gross' that would add up to more than the $40-$80 you added up. I don't even really care that Managers make more than salesman, they should. You guys have to put up with every customer that walks through the door. We as salesman deal with our customer and our next customer, you guys deal that customer and that next customer... for every salesman on the floor. I never had a problem with managers making more money overall, my problem was with some consumers being inconsiderate to the fact a salesman's prodominant income is front end gross.

You are right, I don't understand everything here yet, but I want to. Maybe now instead of bashing me and my dealership, you can offer constructive criticism. I still stand by the fact I did not lie and never will. Misunderstandings? Sure. Someone lying to me? Sure. But if I don't know then I just don't know.

John@Victory

iTrader: (36)

if you dont know then dont speak on it....i dont know everything there is to know about the bussiness either.... but, i dont speak on what i dont know....

we have a bad enough name as it is out there, you gotta understand that...

being a dealer, people listen to what you say and believe it not knowing you were wrong or mis-informed.... so they go to their store armed with the info you gave them or even to your store to see you.... then you find out you were wrong and they come back and tell everyone that the lying scumbags at the "Stealership" told them so and so just to get them in the door....

understand where im coming from?

sorry about the harshness towards you in general, i have extreem issues with your store and old management i guess.... Bernard and Charlie told us some lies about some cars they needed. stole the hold back on 2 of them. wouldnt refund the hold back on the cars they got from us and hold back from 2 cars came directly out of MY check.... so every time i see the name Antwerpen im automaticly pissed off


but on the serious side if you dont know about something or want to learn something then be quiet and listen. kinda like when you are new and someone is closing a deal for you. you just sit and listen and shake your head in agreement....

no hard feelings towards you. just be carefull of what you say as poeple will believe you and then when they find out it isnt just as you said "we are all as dealers the bad guys"

good luck

John

apexi97tsi

+1
Off topic: Pm'ed John@victory yesterday. I don't know if you saw it yet.

Antwerpman

Thank you. I will certainly take these words to heart and use them wisely. I apologize on Charlie and Renards behalf. I learned about some of the things they did after they were gone and it's not something I wanted to be associated with. Charlie is a good person to me personally but his approach to things here in the showroom were, questionable to be extremely modest. Thats one of the major reasons I opted to stay here when he moved on (other than the fact he was selling a brand I don't want to sell).

We have new management now (myself and one other sales person are all that remains from when I started last year) with a complete 180 degree different outlook and we are struggling to clean up the mess previous management left and make a name for ourselfs again. It's not easy, thats part of where my initial motivation/angst came from 47 posts ago. As I tell myself everytime a customer does something that would make me want to scream at them; there is absolutely no point in burning bridges in this business. If ever there is something I can do for you here, let me know and I will at the very least try. Thank you again.

-Mike

John@Victory

iTrader: (36)

never saw it and must have accidentally deleted when i was cleaning the pm box up

resend buddy

gringott

iTrader: (17)

To the OP: As a consumer, I recommend that you explain things to the consumer as you did to us at the beginning of the thread, and give them an option to "check off" on a couple of hundred commission for you, like on Federal taxes where you can donate a buck to political campaigns. I'm sure you will get a bunch of money.

And the next time you buy something from a commission salesman, like a big screen tv or furniture, make sure you overpay a bit to "take care" of that salesman so you know that he at least makes his gas money back for going to work.

Sort of "pay it forward". I try to allways overpay to make sure that nobody gets ripped off.

Antwerpman

Thank you for for completely missing the point.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

You are welcome.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

Thank you. I have no hard feelings about salesmen, it is a job. I have never taken such a job, although people have told me I would be good at it. I am afraid that my need to make a living might tempt me to manipulate people toward what makes the most for me, and self-interest is very hard to overcome if you are supporting yourself and/or a family. I was 19 also, at one time, and I didn't really get how the world works, or I would only look from my perspective. Life experiences have taught me to look at things from more than one perspective, and I was trying to use sarcasm to point out another way of looking at the OP's original post - so he could see it from the consumer point of view.

If you are a car salesman, you have to learn the ropes and develop a strategy that earns you a living. If you are banking on repeat customers snowballing and bringing you a steady income over the years, you will cut them a fair deal. If you are in it to purchase a Z, and plan on going to some other field, then steer the customer to the high profit deal, and don't waste your time on the low commission.

I have a close friend who has been a car salesman in Chicago for decades. He told me he makes little on new car sales, if that was all he could do, he would get out of the field. He makes his big money on used cars. Take that for what it is worth. If your personal ethics don't allow you to make a decent living at sales (I'm not talking illegal) then change jobs.

Good luck to you.

Antwerpman

See, thats so much better. Thank you for real this time on actual advice. Your comment before which was certainly clever I'll give you that, is just feeding into what I was trying to avoid; greed. I completely understand the consumers point of view too, I am a consumer myself, granted not necesarily as frequently on cars. I understand a car is a huge investment you want to save as much as possible on but sometimes things just get absurd. Some customers (definitly not all) seem to forget all about what they are buying and only focus on those numbers. It's just different from how I look at it. Buying a car should be fun and exciting, whether you're getting a Z or a Sentra. A lot of people forget that and just become negotiating machines, which is fine to a degree but some requests are just unreasonable and not everyone understands that. I can't stress enough this is not all people, but enough that I feel motivated to vent.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

The majority of people see car buying as a nightmare, with tricky salesmen trying to con them out of the last dollar. That is the perception, perhaps not the reality every time or even most of the time. Again, you have to look out for yourself, you are not going to change society or the perception of the car buying public. Be honest, but make money for yourself. You can have it both ways. If a customer has unreasonable demands, tell them so, in a respectful and polite way. I read that you had a customer who purchased a car come back to you over and over with every little problem. That is crazy. I would never go to the salesman, I would go to the service department or the manager, not the salesman. Perhaps take the customer to the service department, introduce the customer to the service department manager, and tell the customer that this is the person who will take care of his problems if they crop up. Hopefully, that will work for you. I do know that the last two cars I purchased, before I left, the salesmen took me to the service department, as well as the body and fender shop, and showed me with pride the operations, and asked me to use their shop when maintenance or, God forbid, body work is needed. That is a way to steer the customer to the right area. Good luck.

BMW_2_350z

I thought "Stealership" was just a BMW thing, glad to see its positively influencing all our lives!

LayinLo

Wow, I thought I was learning some behind the scenes ish on how to buy a car..............















I'm kidding.



Ant (Mike), glad you got a chance to vent, it can be hard to find a receptive audience at your age, and I understand this. I wish you the best of luck in a job that can be very challenging at any age. Hopefully you will get your Z soon and can move on to a more emotionallly rewarding career.

John@Vic (John), good luck to you sir. I couldn't sell cars cuz I'm too hyper! And I'd get in trouble for giving the customer's crazy ideas.

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

Mass produced, mass market cars are getting close to being fixed price thanks to the internet.

You can't expect to make serious commission as a salesman selling a car that 2 million other americans already own.

If you want to be a car dealer making commission it's best you sell rare cars that people pay over sticker for. Like M3's for example.

Sorry if by not reading the whole thread I've missed some important point, but I'm just throwing in my $.02

Inovashn

iTrader: (6)

+100

I've worked plenty on busting *** for commission sales and there were great days and there were terrible days. nobody put a gun to your head to make you sale cars for a living.