Antwerpman

Here's one thing I want you guys to consider for me. I see the posts about haggling to less than Invoice and blah blah there is holdback in a car so the dealership won't go broke if they sell cars at Invoice and all that. You are right, dealerships can sell cars at Invoice all day long and not go broke, and those guys with thier names on the buildings that own several dealerships will CERTAINLY not go broke. However, your salesman is only paid on what you pay over Invoice.

Next time you do get that salesman that spends hours with you sincerely helping you and doing what he can to make you a happy customer, remember when you want to sit down in his office and haggle down to as far below Invoice as possible, you're pretty much reaching over and taking money out of his pocket. There are definitly still skeezy guys out there that will try to milk you for every penny, then you never speak to or help you again but thats why shopping a salesman is almost as important as shopping for the car, that can be a far greater investment.

I don't know how to present this argument without sounding greedy, but I guess I can best articulate it like this; do any of you work for free? Gross (the amount paid over Invoice) is the only way a salesman gets paid, and we actually only get a percentage of that.

Here's an example of my worst case scenario. I was training a new salesman and we were helping a guy look at an Altima. We spent all day with him (basically I did everything and the new guy watched). This guy was looking for a car for this wife so he didn't even necessarily care about the car. Anyways, after hours of looking for the right Altima and haggling down to really the lowest we could possibly go he decided to buy. Here is the result, at the time a minimum deal (no matter how low the customer buys for we get something) was $50. Because it was technically the new salesmans customer I had to split the commission with him. I got $25 to spend all day with this guy, and thats just the beginning.

Because I was the prominant figure in the sales process he asks for my assistance now for EVERYTHING. He thinks theres something wrong with the car, he blames me and demands I fix it. He thinks theres a scratch, he wants us to pay for it. Any little problem he comes to me. For the rest of the time he has this car he will come complain to me. I will still help him with a smile on my face because thats the kind of salesman I happen to be, but it's getting hard to do it for $25 that barely payed for my gas to get to work that week. I'm not saying I want to sit here and get paid for nothing, but it is my job, it is work that I am not getting paid for.

Ultimately, find a good salesman and help him as much as he helps you. It's like a tip at a restaurant, when your waiter is unenthusiastic and just doing the bare minimum, they get a bare minimum tip. When the waiter is actually excited to be there and help you out and cares about you as a customer, you tip better (I hope). A ten dollar tip when you take the family out to eat at Pizza Hut is a little easier to swallow I know, but it's all relative.

Find a dealership that treats you like you want to be treated and help them out. There are good ones out there I promise. As far as I'm concerned you're not getting ripped off unless you pay over sticker (and that isn't even always the case, I know people are going to be buying the GT-R over sticker, just like people bought the Z06 over sticker because it is worth that much to them).

And heres some fuel for the fire I'm sure is billowing inside some of you already. When I get my Z, I do not intend to pay sticker for it, but here is my logic. I am working for Nissan to get my Nissan, all the money I've made here is going right back to them for when I get my Z, nevermind the fact I already make them money with every car I sell.

Well I've rambled on enough and I'm sure this is more than enough to spark some good replys. Shoot me down, hate me, disagree or whatever, but let me know what you think. I am all ears to what everyone has to say. Thanks to all of you have taken the time to read this, and Thanks so much in advance to all you that give back your input.

usmanasif

iTrader: (4)

I hear what you're saying. But look at it from a buyer's perspective: Why should a buyer pay for what is clearly an unfair dealership policy? If a dealership can sell cars all day at invoice and not go broke, I suppose they could compensate their sales people who make those sales in the first place, quite well, and still make money.

Ray123

these are both good points but the guy selling the car is doing what he is told so he can feed his family u know.

does anyone want to tell him that you dot care that he can feed his kids or not???? thats not cool

sq40

iTrader: (4)

There is no room for Sympathy in a business transaction.

Life Goes On

iTrader: (1)

AGREE 190%

John@Victory

iTrader: (36)

if you arent happy making flats on sales as well as the commissions on others and the unit bonuses as well then you are in the wrong bussiness.....i run our internet sales department and i see more flat sales than any other salesman out there.... yet you dont see me on here busting tears about flat (mini deals). i find it hard to believe you only get a 50 dollar flat though. every dealership i have ever seen has a minimum of 100 dollar flats and alot have 200 dollar flats..... you have to roll with the punches fella.... lets talk about the used cars you end up putting a grand in your pocket selling..... you dont feel bad about that do you? then how is someone else supposed to show sympathy when you make a mini?

05-Z

iTrader: (4)

Good points, I'm in sales too so I understand your "plea."

However, those that put in the time and build relationships are usually successful.

Your nemesis CarMax seems to be doing fairly well with a different compensation policy.

John@Victory

iTrader: (36)

you being a dealership employee will buy your z for VPP which will be about 1k under invoice....... bad example

AroundMyHorn

iTrader: (9)

its kinda like a catch 22. Us buyers want the best deal possible while sales peopel need to get as much as they can without pissing off the customer. its A vicious cycle. That being said, i usually dotn deal with sales people because i dont like going through the whole run around thing...Hell, its like going on a first date...brutal. This may be unethical(when it comes to sales) but usually i jsut tell the salesman what i want, ask to drive the car, then say, ok, let me talk to finance. I dont even go through the numbers things with them.(kinda like skipping the whole date and goign straight to the bedroom)

Antwerpman

That is most definitly a valid point. I agree whole heartedly. I have on several specific instances had customers come back in just to see me even though a manager had scared/angered them off their first time in. Then when they do buy, that manager still makes more money on the sale than me. I wonder every day why I make the least money on a sale when I am the most involved, when it was my service and dedication that has this person buying the car period. I think it's unfair that a dealership can make so much money and pay thier salesman the least, but thats how it is, everywhere as far as I know. Some dealerships have better pay plans than others, no question, but that general idea is always present as far as I know.

Thanks for the feedback guys, all most valid points so far, keep it up. I appreciate it.

savvy

iTrader: (1)

you could always haggle the price down to invoice then slip the sales guy an extra 50 or something

Antwerpman

It's actually $1,500 Under Invoice. I knew someone would know that, thats why I brought it up before someone else could and make me look bad. As I said initially, I am working for Nissan to get my Nissan, all the money I make here is pretty much going to go right back to them when I buy my Z. And for your previous point about my complaining and tears and what not, I am the Internet Department at my store, not an Internet Sales Associate, the department. I am the only one doing anything witht he Internet here. So yes, all the deals I do see are flats. Thats the most frustrating part now because as you are in Internet Sales too you can probably see even Internet Shoppers are getting out of control. I'll spend a week in constant contact with a customer doing what I can just to find out someone else (like you guys at Victory for example) beat my price by $50 and they decided to buy there. Internet Sales arent supposed to generate profit, they are quick sales to move unites. But now those arent even quick. Oh, and I've never made a $1,000 on a used car. I usually don't deal with used cars, and when someone does send in an e-mail about a used car they are interested in, our Internet Prices are not set for me to make $1,000 on it. I still appreciate the feedback though.

Antwerpman

Haha, thats a very kind idea, but I have a feeling theres got to be some kind of legalities that would complicate that a little bit.

Antwerpman

Also an awesome point. Heres where my specific situation complicates things a little bit. I work for a newer smaller store. Carmax is a Juggernaut that puts out so many units they get bonus money from Nissan that helps them pay better, and discount more, and give more for trades. Also a vicious cycle. It takes money to make money and my store is still trying to completely establish itself. Technically I could just go somewhere else (even another make) and make more money but I have a loyalty, I have a loyalty to Nissan for sure, and my store here. When my General Manager left and went to work at a "Unnamed Domestic Brand" dealership that did about 4 times as many units a month as us he asked that I come along, daily for a couple weeks. I refused because I want to sell Nissans. I sell Nissan because I believe whole heartedly in the product here. I couldn't genuinely sell a product I don't like, that would just make me the kind of car salesman that we all try to avoid.

savvy

iTrader: (1)

i tried the whole email the dealership to obtain info on prices and availability and not a single one would give me an answer....all they would say is stop by and we will take care of you. I didnt have that kind of time to go from dealership to dealership and it just pissed me off that no one would answer my questions

Antwerpman

I'm sorry to hear that. Thats a really primitive way of doing Internet Sales and your dealerships should know better than that by now. I hope you eventually found a dealership that helped you out like they should.

Row2K

iTrader: (10)

look at it from the dealerships point of view, they kno you will keep shopping on the internet untill u find some place that gives u a ridicolously low price and whats even better is that there are dealerships that would give u fake numbers just to get u to stop by. I never negotiated over the phone with my customers and prob. never will.

Sad but true 100%

davidv

iTrader: (2)

Your post is long and detailed. My reply is a bit more brief.

I respect salespeople. Sales is a profession.

The buying process is a negotiation. It is my obligation to get the best price possible. A contract involves the exchange of two things of value. In this case a vehicle for money. I make an offer: you make a counter offer. If I don’t like the price, I can say no. If you do not like my offer, you can say no. The agreed upon price is just that: it must be agreed upon by both parties.

No one twisted my arm to buy the vehicle, and no one twisted yours to sell it.

John@Victory

iTrader: (36)

that is utter and complete bull-ish

the person that makes the most on a vehicle is the salesman (other than the owner) if you know how your managers get paid you would have never said that. they get paid between 1%-3% of the total gross on the store. your manager doesnt get paid out of the holdback. he did not make more than you selling the car. to even imply that is obsurd. he made a whooping 0 dollars if it was an invoice deal.

this is the thing that frustrates me the most. people that have no working knowledge of a dealership that speak up and talk about what they dont know/understand or flat out lie....

John@Victory

iTrader: (36)

OK if you say so... I've been in the bussiness for almost 10 years now. I know how every dealership is structured proffit wise. we are all based the same way. we all have the same basic pay structure and sales structure. because its been proven to work time and time again. if you havent made a grand selling cars then you dont run the internet department and you have absolutely no sales experiance.... your telling me you have never had a customer come in on a car and switched them to another you owned better and wasnt listed online yet so you could make money? Go tell the lies to someone else fella.....