Dealer cost vs. Invoice price
Originally Posted by slapthemonkey
I sell cars. If I had to go check with my manager for something, and someone said be back in 3 minutes or I leave, I would tell them to go ahead and get out.
Yes, it's a game sometimes, other times the manager simply has a lot going on and everyone has to wait a few minutes.
All this talk about negotiating and crap, don't bother with it. Here a step-by-step instructions for how to buy a car.
1) Pick out which car you want.
2) Do some internet research. Find out what invoice price is, and what specials are currently running.
3) This will vary per-person, but I say $500 over invoice, or just straight up invoice price. Yes, with lots and lots of time and bargaining, you might be able to get under invoice, but (to me at least), the time required is not worth it. Is it really worth 4 or 5 hours to save a few hundred bucks? Not to me. So lets say you pick invoice price.
4) Go to your bank or credit union, find out what their rates are.
5) Go to dealership. Find salesman. Point to a specific car on the lot. Tell him you want that car, and you are willing to pay$xx,xx (invoice) for it. Tell him you will buy it right now for that price. Tell him you don't want to go back and forth, back and forth. Let him go ask his manager. When he comes back, if they meet your price, great. If not, thank him for his time and get up and walk out. Repeat until you find the deal you want.
6) Once you find the car and the price, it will take a little bit of time. Contrary to previous posts, it probably won't happen in an hour start to finish. I take my time filling out my paperwork so I only have to do it once. It also depends on the day of the week. Thursday and Friday morning will typically be a lot faster than Saturday afternoon.
7) Go to F&I office. If the dealership is obviously not busy, don't wait more than an hour to go in. If they are, cut them some slack.
8) Find out what their rate is. If they can match your bank's, great. If not, you can go to your bank. No need to scream or get angry. You already have a guaranteed rate at your bank, so don't worry about what they say.
9) Buying a warranty and other stuff is optional, and a personal preference. I buy warranties, I think they are a good deal (a warranty should cost somewhere around $1500, depending on length. Not $3K or $4k.). I also buy GAP insurance, as I think it is worth it. Credit life and disability is up to you. I don't, personally. If you want a Lo-Jack, great. Other than that, I wouldn't buy anything else the F&I guy tries to sell.
10) Sign papers. Enjoy car.
10 easy steps. All you need to do. Don't make it harder than it needs to be.
Yes, it's a game sometimes, other times the manager simply has a lot going on and everyone has to wait a few minutes.
All this talk about negotiating and crap, don't bother with it. Here a step-by-step instructions for how to buy a car.
1) Pick out which car you want.
2) Do some internet research. Find out what invoice price is, and what specials are currently running.
3) This will vary per-person, but I say $500 over invoice, or just straight up invoice price. Yes, with lots and lots of time and bargaining, you might be able to get under invoice, but (to me at least), the time required is not worth it. Is it really worth 4 or 5 hours to save a few hundred bucks? Not to me. So lets say you pick invoice price.
4) Go to your bank or credit union, find out what their rates are.
5) Go to dealership. Find salesman. Point to a specific car on the lot. Tell him you want that car, and you are willing to pay$xx,xx (invoice) for it. Tell him you will buy it right now for that price. Tell him you don't want to go back and forth, back and forth. Let him go ask his manager. When he comes back, if they meet your price, great. If not, thank him for his time and get up and walk out. Repeat until you find the deal you want.
6) Once you find the car and the price, it will take a little bit of time. Contrary to previous posts, it probably won't happen in an hour start to finish. I take my time filling out my paperwork so I only have to do it once. It also depends on the day of the week. Thursday and Friday morning will typically be a lot faster than Saturday afternoon.
7) Go to F&I office. If the dealership is obviously not busy, don't wait more than an hour to go in. If they are, cut them some slack.
8) Find out what their rate is. If they can match your bank's, great. If not, you can go to your bank. No need to scream or get angry. You already have a guaranteed rate at your bank, so don't worry about what they say.
9) Buying a warranty and other stuff is optional, and a personal preference. I buy warranties, I think they are a good deal (a warranty should cost somewhere around $1500, depending on length. Not $3K or $4k.). I also buy GAP insurance, as I think it is worth it. Credit life and disability is up to you. I don't, personally. If you want a Lo-Jack, great. Other than that, I wouldn't buy anything else the F&I guy tries to sell.
10) Sign papers. Enjoy car.
10 easy steps. All you need to do. Don't make it harder than it needs to be.
Im definitely gonna remember this when Im ready to buy the next generation Z.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 70
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From: tokyo indio ca
one thing i can say here
i sell cars and i am broker.
when i get cars from fleet manager i get the car below invoice.
some models way ~ below invoice some arent
any scion cars can not get below invoice..
i purchased my z from my self i only paid $24300 base model
i sell cars and i am broker.
when i get cars from fleet manager i get the car below invoice.
some models way ~ below invoice some arent
any scion cars can not get below invoice..
i purchased my z from my self i only paid $24300 base model
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: tokyo indio ca
so.. think this way if you are trying to get brand new car
go to brokers and get the price and actullay brokers can give you better price than dealer.
because at dealer ship dealer has to make money and sales manager and finance manager and sales man.
brokers can adjust all the fees and hidden car price.
if you are in socal let me know i will get you any car for below invoice price
and you can pick the dealer ship to get the car from.
i will do the deal for you since i have broker license.
go to brokers and get the price and actullay brokers can give you better price than dealer.
because at dealer ship dealer has to make money and sales manager and finance manager and sales man.
brokers can adjust all the fees and hidden car price.
if you are in socal let me know i will get you any car for below invoice price
and you can pick the dealer ship to get the car from.
i will do the deal for you since i have broker license.
New Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 340
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles
Originally Posted by peterkim0121
one thing i can say here
i sell cars and i am broker.
when i get cars from fleet manager i get the car below invoice.
some models way ~ below invoice some arent
any scion cars can not get below invoice..
i purchased my z from my self i only paid $24300 base model
i sell cars and i am broker.
when i get cars from fleet manager i get the car below invoice.
some models way ~ below invoice some arent
any scion cars can not get below invoice..
i purchased my z from my self i only paid $24300 base model
Originally Posted by marhot
I wouldn't allow that. You make the dealer work on your timetable. Time is just another negotiation tool used to break you down.
I would not sit for more than 3 minutes. When the salesman leaves you in his office, inform him you will walk in 3 minutes. Chances are he’ll test you. So walk and they will stop you before you get out of the dealership.
An alternative method is tell the salesman, if it takes them more than 3 minutes to return with a counter offer, your offer will go down $100 a minute.
There is no reason agreeing on a sales price should take more than 20-30 minutes at the most. The salesmanager knows how much his bottom line is before you walk in the dealership. His game is to get as much out of you as possible. Time is on his side.
Do not play his game. The first time you walk, or attempt too, he’ll get serious.
The entire sales process from the time you pull into the dealership until the time you leave can be done in hour.
I would not sit for more than 3 minutes. When the salesman leaves you in his office, inform him you will walk in 3 minutes. Chances are he’ll test you. So walk and they will stop you before you get out of the dealership.
An alternative method is tell the salesman, if it takes them more than 3 minutes to return with a counter offer, your offer will go down $100 a minute.
There is no reason agreeing on a sales price should take more than 20-30 minutes at the most. The salesmanager knows how much his bottom line is before you walk in the dealership. His game is to get as much out of you as possible. Time is on his side.
Do not play his game. The first time you walk, or attempt too, he’ll get serious.
The entire sales process from the time you pull into the dealership until the time you leave can be done in hour.
I work as a car salesman and if a customer pulls crap like this, i just let them walk... there's no way in hell you are getting a good deal if you are an a$$hole, you can go buy it somewhere else, ill sell this same car the next day anyways.
Originally Posted by marhot
I went to a closer dealership, offered him $1,500 under MSRP, they accepted and had my Z in and out within an hour. I had no problem with the price.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: NJ
Originally Posted by SekZee
lol
I work as a car salesman and if a customer pulls crap like this, i just let them walk... there's no way in hell you are getting a good deal if you are an a$$hole, you can go buy it somewhere else, ill sell this same car the next day anyways.
I work as a car salesman and if a customer pulls crap like this, i just let them walk... there's no way in hell you are getting a good deal if you are an a$$hole, you can go buy it somewhere else, ill sell this same car the next day anyways.
I once had someone like you guys not realize that I was serious about buying a car. This guy gave me some BS about "we like to make $2000-3000 on each sale so I can't do much off of MSRP". I went back the next week to a different salesmen who offered me invoice +$300 within 5 minutes of me sitting down.
Originally Posted by DomZ
False. I live near two of the highest volume Nissan dealers in country and I can tell you that there is an 07 PPW Z that I wanted to make a deal on in July is still there as of this morning. There is also a Solar Orange 07' that has been at the dealer since March. The cocky salesmen are the ones who don't survive in the auto industry. You and the other guy that said you'd let people walk? I hate to break it to you but there are more than enough people willing to take that sale off of your hands so keep on letting those customers walk right out the door
I once had someone like you guys not realize that I was serious about buying a car. This guy gave me some BS about "we like to make $2000-3000 on each sale so I can't do much off of MSRP". I went back the next week to a different salesmen who offered me invoice +$300 within 5 minutes of me sitting down.
I once had someone like you guys not realize that I was serious about buying a car. This guy gave me some BS about "we like to make $2000-3000 on each sale so I can't do much off of MSRP". I went back the next week to a different salesmen who offered me invoice +$300 within 5 minutes of me sitting down.
He can't pay his bills then, if he gives up money so easy...
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 242
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From: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted by DomZ
False. I live near two of the highest volume Nissan dealers in country and I can tell you that there is an 07 PPW Z that I wanted to make a deal on in July is still there as of this morning. There is also a Solar Orange 07' that has been at the dealer since March. The cocky salesmen are the ones who don't survive in the auto industry. You and the other guy that said you'd let people walk? I hate to break it to you but there are more than enough people willing to take that sale off of your hands so keep on letting those customers walk right out the door
I once had someone like you guys not realize that I was serious about buying a car. This guy gave me some BS about "we like to make $2000-3000 on each sale so I can't do much off of MSRP". I went back the next week to a different salesmen who offered me invoice +$300 within 5 minutes of me sitting down.
I once had someone like you guys not realize that I was serious about buying a car. This guy gave me some BS about "we like to make $2000-3000 on each sale so I can't do much off of MSRP". I went back the next week to a different salesmen who offered me invoice +$300 within 5 minutes of me sitting down.
It's not a matter of making a sale or not, it's a matter of whether it's worth my time to sell that particular person a car.
Anybody who tells me
When the salesman leaves you in his office, inform him you will walk in 3 minutes. Chances are he’ll test you. So walk and they will stop you before you get out of the dealership.
An alternative method is tell the salesman, if it takes them more than 3 minutes to return with a counter offer, your offer will go down $100 a minute.
An alternative method is tell the salesman, if it takes them more than 3 minutes to return with a counter offer, your offer will go down $100 a minute.
is not worth my time to sell a car, regardless of how much money I am making or not making on the deal. I may not sell that particular car the next day, but I will sell another one.
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From: Hampton
Originally Posted by slapthemonkey
It's not a matter of making a sale or not, it's a matter of whether it's worth my time to sell that particular person a car.
Anybody who tells me
is not worth my time to sell a car, regardless of how much money I am making or not making on the deal. I may not sell that particular car the next day, but I will sell another one.
Anybody who tells me
is not worth my time to sell a car, regardless of how much money I am making or not making on the deal. I may not sell that particular car the next day, but I will sell another one.
This reminds me of my fathers friend who is worth millions that walked into a Ford dealership to by some trucks for his machine shop. My dad's friend looks scruffy and poor, but he is a hands on guy and gets dirty every day in his shop. Anyways he went in the Ford dealership looking to buy 6 Super Duty's for his shop. The local salesman asked him if he knew how much each truck would cost him and acted like he couldn't afford them. So he said he would pay so much for each truck and is that an acceptable offer, and the salesman was like when you produce the cash I'll consider the offer or something of that nature. anyways the guy walked out went to another Ford dealer and then called the sales manager about his experience. Let him know that they would never have his business again or future business. All because of a cocky salesman. Something to think about when you think you are above a sale. Not saying you are cocky but you are coming off as you are doing the customer a favor, when you should be working for the customer and not against him.
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From: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted by SloScooter
I always hought the customer came first, but I see your pride comes first. I agree three minutes is rather quick, but a customer is right about 90% f the time. I own a motorcycle supply store and if my employees didn't treat every customer like he was a millionaire they wouldn't be working for me anymore.
This reminds me of my fathers friend who is worth millions that walked into a Ford dealership to by some trucks for his machine shop. My dad's friend looks scruffy and poor, but he is a hands on guy and gets dirty every day in his shop. Anyways he went in the Ford dealership looking to buy 6 Super Duty's for his shop. The local salesman asked him if he knew how much each truck would cost him and acted like he couldn't afford them. So he said he would pay so much for each truck and is that an acceptable offer, and the salesman was like when you produce the cash I'll consider the offer or something of that nature. anyways the guy walked out went to another Ford dealer and then called the sales manager about his experience. Let him know that they would never have his business again or future business. All because of a cocky salesman. Something to think about when you think you are above a sale. Not saying you are cocky but you are coming off as you are doing the customer a favor, when you should be working for the customer and not against him.
This reminds me of my fathers friend who is worth millions that walked into a Ford dealership to by some trucks for his machine shop. My dad's friend looks scruffy and poor, but he is a hands on guy and gets dirty every day in his shop. Anyways he went in the Ford dealership looking to buy 6 Super Duty's for his shop. The local salesman asked him if he knew how much each truck would cost him and acted like he couldn't afford them. So he said he would pay so much for each truck and is that an acceptable offer, and the salesman was like when you produce the cash I'll consider the offer or something of that nature. anyways the guy walked out went to another Ford dealer and then called the sales manager about his experience. Let him know that they would never have his business again or future business. All because of a cocky salesman. Something to think about when you think you are above a sale. Not saying you are cocky but you are coming off as you are doing the customer a favor, when you should be working for the customer and not against him.
When the salesman leaves you in his office, inform him you will walk in 3 minutes. Chances are he’ll test you. So walk and they will stop you before you get out of the dealership.
An alternative method is tell the salesman, if it takes them more than 3 minutes to return with a counter offer, your offer will go down $100 a minute.
An alternative method is tell the salesman, if it takes them more than 3 minutes to return with a counter offer, your offer will go down $100 a minute.
is condescending and rude. I have no problem treating my customers like gold, and going well above and beyond what they expect.
But I will not be talked to in that manner, especially knowing how I treat my customers. No customer is worth being belittled or condescended to. A lot of people seem to think that simply because I sell cars, I am either an idiot or or the spawn of Satan, and I am neither.
I have never treated a customer as if they couldn't afford to purchase anything on the lot, and I am quite polite to everyone, but I expect the same in turn. In point of fact, I have made several sales to people who were turned away from other dealerships.
You may call me cocky, or tell me that my pride comes before a sale, but I say that no sale is worth having to put aside your pride when it comes to being treated respectfully and politely. I give respect and I expect it in return.
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From: NJ
Originally Posted by SekZee
He can't pay his bills then, if he gives up money so easy...
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From: NJ
Originally Posted by slapthemonkey
I am not saying I am above a sale, I am saying some sale's are not worth it. It has absolutely nothing to do with what a customer looks like, is dressed like like, what they drive up in. It has everything to do with their attitude
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From: KCMO
a customer is a customer. it doesnt matter what you look like or what you are wearing. you will be treated accordingly. now if you act like an idiot guess what you will be treated like an idiot. salespeople are just like anyone else they are people and they too have a job to perform. people complain about there experiences at dealerships well you make your own experience. if you think the dealer is playing a game then thats the opinion you will have and therefore that is your conclusion.however if you believe that you are having fun with the purchase then that is what you will feel. the time spent at a dealership depends entirely upto the customer and there so called demands. buying a car does not have to be an ordeal it is supposed to be fun and exciting. and as far as interest rates are concerned that all depends on your credit worthiness. if youre credit is all that and a ham sandwich then just goto to your own bank and make your bank profitable. but if something goes wrong with your z go back to your bank and see if they will fix it. besides they(your bank) are real honest and you trust them.
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From: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted by DomZ
I have a hard time believing that. I can't wear mesh shorts and a t-shirt to the dealer and get taken seriously. I have to get halfway dressed up for any salesmen to give me the time of day.
Any salesperson worth his job will have at least a few stories of some guy or girl dressed like a bum who spent a bunch of money.
One of my best customers is a construction foreman on heavy-duty sites. He drives a beat-up company truck, wears t-shirts and old jeans with work boots. He's always kinda dusty or a bit dirty, from working with heavy machinery.
He also makes almost $250K a year and likes toys. And has a lot of friends in the same position.
He went to a bunch of dealerships, looking at lifted up diesel 3/4 ton's. I mean conversion trucks, that run about $60K.
He said he had been to several dealerships and no one would talk to him, except to quickly throw him out (he worked a half day when I met him). I was like his last stop before he gave up. I don't care what he looks like, I'm going to talk to him and be polite. Everybody needs car, and if you're nice to them, thats what they will remember, whether in 2 days or 2 years.
So anyway, we chat a while, I show him a truck, quote him a price, he loves it, good price. We help him through some credit issues he had at the time, and boom. New truck.
The same guy no one would talk to has now sent me several customers, who have bought another conversion truck, another 3/4 ton diesel, a Vette, and a Hummer. And no one would talk to him because of the way he looked.
Oops.
Originally Posted by DomZ
Nope, I told him I wanted to buy a car and I wanted to work FROM invoice and he did some calculations in the back and returned with that. When your Nissan dealer isn't a bunch of douchebags you can afford to make LESS selling MORE cars. In the end you make the same amount of cash as dealers with arrogant money hungry salesmen but you end up with more satisfied customers and more repeat business.
at my dealership ANYTHING under $600 over invoice is a MINI deal which is $50 bucks in my pocket...which is about $34 after taxes... how many cars a month do you expect me to sell to pay my bills if every car is $34?