cehome

iTrader: (7)

Is dealer cost typically lower than invoice price? Got an email from a local dealership that they will sell any new car for dealer cost on Black Friday. I may be in the market for another 350Z. Anyone knows?

Billhyco

iTrader: (14)

my suggestion, take someone with you that knows how to deal.

dealers have all kinds of "back end money" and inflated interest rates in their pockets. they may show you a dealer cost but its not what they pay for it in the end. take the sticker price, knock off about 4K and start dealing from there. Easier to get more for your trade then knock off money from a new car as well.

RX350Z

they will always make money. just remember that when you walk in. they have families too

davidv

iTrader: (2)

If it says so in an email than it must be true.

gjoey66

here are a couple of hints...

1) when they ask how much you're looking to pay a month...tell them that's not important...the price/deal is important to you!

that's actually a trick question they use to seperate the finacially savy from the ones they can hose in financing. basically if they know you only car about monthly payments then they'll sell you a car with a longer term and higher interest to get low payments...but you end up spending over 40k on a Z...

2) Don't tell them you already have financing arranged...they'll take more off the price if they think they're going to get a little off of you by selling you even a slightly inflated interest rate...make it sound like you wanna settle the price...then you want see what they can offer in financing...but in reality you'll already have gone to a few credit unions and your own bank and found the most competitive rate. (including fees)

3) don't tell them about your trade until after you've settled the price of the car and all fee's...make sure to get a purchase order in hand so they don't tack on all sorts of delivery fees and BS...then show them your trade...that way you'll know what your trade is really worth and might consider selling it on your own...if not they play the shell game with you on trade in value and price of car...all of the time knowing they're trying to make a little more profit off of you.

4) in the end realize that it is a business and you're paying a premium to buy a car from them...nice showroom huh...how about all the secretaries and managers and salesman...all that is overhead and they have to make it somewhere...nothing wrong with it if you want a new car...just don't ever think you're buying at cost...that's complete BS...they don't tell you that invoice and dealer cost are also shell games...they get kickbacks for ordering so many cars...so maybe they get 10% off for buying 15 cars...(made up numbers) then they could still know another 2k off of invoice and still make money...see what i'm getting at...you'll never know what the cost really is...but be ok with it...

5) finally shop different dealerships and let them know you're doing that regardless of the deal...some are much more willing to deal...and i've even said...i've found this exact car at three dealerships...the best price...actual purchase order in my hand sells me a car tonight...that lets them know they need to come to you with their best offer where they'll still make a profit...but most likely undercut the other dealerships...this is my best bargaining chip...one dealer called me later and asked if i was interested and i told them the very next dealership had already beat them (i was actually eating lunch...hadn't even gone to the next dealership) then they said they could do better...i said look, i am not going to waste my time doing this...thanks but no thanks (they wanted me to come back to them) i said what's the new offer...and then asked him to fax me the purchase order...it was a steal...then i showed that to the next dealer...said it was a great deal...nobody could beat it...called one more dealer and they said they'd knock another 500 off if i took a car they had on the lot...bam, i bought my Z in 04 for almost 5k below MSRP...at that time...nobody was making deals...some places were even charging 2 or 3k over MSRP...so you gotta be tough...it's a lot of money

marhot

Billhyco and gjoey66 gave you good advice.

My .02.

It’s easy to find or calculate a car’s “invoice” from lots of web sites. If they’d sell it to you at “invoice” and you know it’s “invoice” that’s a good deal.

Don’t let them confuse you into thinking the “MSRP” is the “invoice” price. I’ve seen dealers try to pull that one too.

Like Billhyco said the “invoice” is not what the dealer actually pays for the car. They have something called a "holdback," dealers get money back from the manufacturer once the car is sold. Holdbacks usually amount to a few percentage points of the invoice price, or a few hundred dollars. You can usually find the “holdback” online too. But you are not going to get that.

They need to make some money too. They are not going to give you a car, any car, especially a 350Z without making something. Be reasonable.

gjoey66 is correct about he financing too. If you are going to financing, check with you bank or a local credit union first. Get pre-approved. Know your ARP before you get into the finance office. The finance man of the dealership is worst than the salesmen. They make the most money in the dealership. I’ve seen people so excited by getting a “good deal” on the sale go to the finance office and get screwed royally. Only finance through the dealership if you are absolutely sure they are offering you the best rate. And read the fine print.

If you have a trade-in you must sell it yourself. They will definitely screw you. They make lots on taking your trade-in.

Remember you are not going to get a car for “free.” You gotta allow the dealer to make a little money.

jaspendlove

iTrader: (3)

good info

jetnoirZ

iTrader: (3)

another good trick i used to get a good interest rate is to get a hold of the roberts report. its this book full of current interest rates for cars. from alot of credit unions banks etc. look through it and if your brave pretend that u belong to that credit union and ask them to match the rate. Worked for me. quoted me an 9% interest and BS about belonging to some credit union. walked out with %2 interest

usmanasif

iTrader: (4)

As an add-on. When I ordered my Z last year, I demanded invoice price since my car was going to be a special order (i.e. entire holdback would go into their pockets) and mentioned the exact dollar amount they were likely to get as the holdback. Their sales manager himself was taking my order so he was very forthcoming about acknowledging the holdback and didn't resist one bit to not only sell me the car for invoice, but give 10% off my Nismo exhaust and CAI, plus free installation on each!

Information is a powerful thing.

M_parallel

Dealer sales cost is over invoice, usually by $350 to $1250.

TheProfessional

iTrader: (14)

Good advice.. the only thing I would add is that you should be prepared for a marathon. I bought my Z having researched for months and took advantage of January and walked within 1 hour.

On the other hand, when I negotiated my wife's Nismo Frontier, we worked on this deal for over 8 hours. In fact, I ordered a pizza while I was at the dealership.

marhot

I wouldn't allow that. You make the dealer work on your timetable. Time is just another negotiation tool used to break you down.
I would not sit for more than 3 minutes. When the salesman leaves you in his office, inform him you will walk in 3 minutes. Chances are he’ll test you. So walk and they will stop you before you get out of the dealership.

An alternative method is tell the salesman, if it takes them more than 3 minutes to return with a counter offer, your offer will go down $100 a minute.

There is no reason agreeing on a sales price should take more than 20-30 minutes at the most. The salesmanager knows how much his bottom line is before you walk in the dealership. His game is to get as much out of you as possible. Time is on his side.

Do not play his game. The first time you walk, or attempt too, he’ll get serious.

The entire sales process from the time you pull into the dealership until the time you leave can be done in hour.

slapthemonkey

I sell cars. If I had to go check with my manager for something, and someone said be back in 3 minutes or I leave, I would tell them to go ahead and get out.


Yes, it's a game sometimes, other times the manager simply has a lot going on and everyone has to wait a few minutes.

All this talk about negotiating and crap, don't bother with it. Here a step-by-step instructions for how to buy a car.

1) Pick out which car you want.

2) Do some internet research. Find out what invoice price is, and what specials are currently running.

3) This will vary per-person, but I say $500 over invoice, or just straight up invoice price. Yes, with lots and lots of time and bargaining, you might be able to get under invoice, but (to me at least), the time required is not worth it. Is it really worth 4 or 5 hours to save a few hundred bucks? Not to me. So lets say you pick invoice price.

4) Go to your bank or credit union, find out what their rates are.

5) Go to dealership. Find salesman. Point to a specific car on the lot. Tell him you want that car, and you are willing to pay$xx,xx (invoice) for it. Tell him you will buy it right now for that price. Tell him you don't want to go back and forth, back and forth. Let him go ask his manager. When he comes back, if they meet your price, great. If not, thank him for his time and get up and walk out. Repeat until you find the deal you want.

6) Once you find the car and the price, it will take a little bit of time. Contrary to previous posts, it probably won't happen in an hour start to finish. I take my time filling out my paperwork so I only have to do it once. It also depends on the day of the week. Thursday and Friday morning will typically be a lot faster than Saturday afternoon.

7) Go to F&I office. If the dealership is obviously not busy, don't wait more than an hour to go in. If they are, cut them some slack.

8) Find out what their rate is. If they can match your bank's, great. If not, you can go to your bank. No need to scream or get angry. You already have a guaranteed rate at your bank, so don't worry about what they say.

9) Buying a warranty and other stuff is optional, and a personal preference. I buy warranties, I think they are a good deal (a warranty should cost somewhere around $1500, depending on length. Not $3K or $4k.). I also buy GAP insurance, as I think it is worth it. Credit life and disability is up to you. I don't, personally. If you want a Lo-Jack, great. Other than that, I wouldn't buy anything else the F&I guy tries to sell.

10) Sign papers. Enjoy car.


10 easy steps. All you need to do. Don't make it harder than it needs to be.

M_parallel

Good post.

I have sold 500+ Nissans personally, and never once when I was on the sales floor did I spend more than a few minutes on actual negotiations; they're really not complicated. Most time is spent getting trades bid out, calling for payoff, getting insurance, filling out credit forms, getting bank approval, etc; all of which are things a customer can/should do for themselves.

As you stated, I would politely show someone the door who told me I have 3 minutes or wanted to play 8 hours of games (never seen this happen once), wanted my best price so they can shop it (seen this one a few times), and where are you going to find a single, let alone three dealerships willing to print a purchase order without a car deal(never had this request)?

C'mon now!

davidv

iTrader: (2)

I have been buying personal vehicles for more than 30 years, and this is excellent advise. Nothing speaks louder than “I am prepared to buy today.” What is the saying?

Money talks. BS walks.

maxima2k2

If a customer walked out the first time because the sticker price was too high for an new 08 or new 07, but decided go back to the dealer a couple months later and wanted to buy a same or different trim level same car, would it be best to talk to the same salesman from the first visit or look for a different one? If a customer does get the same salesman from the first visit, would he recoginize him and give the same deal from the previous visit or can the customer renegotiate all over again? If the customer tells him about the invoice price on edmunds will the salesman agree to that price?

slapthemonkey

Same one, unless you didn't like him.

He spent time with you already. We don't get paid by the hour, we get paid by the sale. So if he spent some time with you already, give him another shot.

Deals change with rebates and months and depending on total sales for the month.

Here's my deal. I don't mind invoice price on a car, even though I don't make much, if it's a quick and easy deal. Bring me a stock #, tell me you're ready to buy for invoice, alll you need is the paperwork filled out and the car cleaned...I will do that. It's quick and easy, and doesn't take too much time.

It's the people who want to waste 4 or 5 hours of my time for invoice that I don't want to deal with.

davidv

iTrader: (2)

Not recommended. Determine the maximum that you are willing to pay. Any reference will begin a debate about the validity of the reference. No need to go there.

cehome

iTrader: (7)

slapthemonkey posts seems the most efficient and easiest method. I don't have the patience to be going back and forth. Like he says it's not worth the few hundred dollars it may save me. I like the no nonsense method without all the haggling. Thanks Slapthemonkey.

marhot

I would buy a car from you.
Unfortunately, all salesmen / dealerships are not like you.


When I bought my Z, I had already got an online quote from a Nissan dealership in the KC metro area for $1 K under MSRP. That dealership was 25 miles from my home.
I went to a closer dealership, offered him $1,500 under MSRP, they accepted and had my Z in and out within an hour. I had no problem with the price. Back in ’03 when I got my Z the all dealers here were lucky to have 2 or 3 in stock. At the dealership where I got mine, there was only one other Z on the lot. Now when I drive by, they have about a dozen all the time.

Frankly, I never had any problems buying Nissans. My experience with dealerships jerking me around have always been with “American cars”.