This thread is mostly academic, but I am genuinely curious. To put it simply, why are z's faster than g's?

The obvious answer is the weight disparity. I'm not a z guy, but IIRC models vary between 3200 and 3300 pounds. The g, on the other hand, is as heavy as 3500 pounds(varies depending on options and year, but just a rough statement; applies to both coupes and sedans). So the weight difference is ~200/~300 pounds. Generally speaking, we all know that 100lbs is good for 1 tenth, so that would be a delta of 2 to 3 tenths. But from what I've been able to dig up on these forums does not comply with that statement.

On that long thread about 1/4 times, there were plenty of z's breaking 13.7/13.8 stock, and 102/103+ mph. While there have been a *slight few* g's (on g35driver at least) claiming 13.9's stock, they are few and far between. More often they are in the 14.2 to 14.4 range. And few trap 100mph or better. And before someone points me to g's that have exceeded my claims, I never claimed they didn't exist, I simply claim they are very few.

Obviously driver skill, track conditions, and atmo conditions all play a big role. But why does that theoretical difference of .2/.3 in the real world become .5/.6?

Let's examine the differences in the cars. I've already addressed the weight. Some(not all?) z's come with the light-weight track wheels, which is one advantage. What about the cf driveshaft? It's weight savings are obviously included in the previous figures, but does the fact that it's a lighter rotating mass result in a greater impact than it's lighter weight alone?

It's my opinion that these factors all contribute to the lower overall times for the z's. However, I still do *not* think they add up to that .5/.6 margin. I believe that as a function of owners, more z drivers go to the track versus g drivers. Also, as a percentage of track goers, I would argue that z owners collectively have more track experience than their g counterparts, either in their cars, or previous cars. I think that experience will likely extend to better race prep(tires, spare tire, seats, whatever). In my opinion, it's all of these factors together that explain the large differences in ET's.

What do you guys think? Am I over simplifying? Am I over complicating? Do I have my info correct regarding the z?

Before I get flamed for anything, let me stress that I am not trying to "beat" a z. My car, bolt-on for bolt-on, excluding drivers, will not match a z. I am aware of that. Like I said at the beginning, this is a purely academic discussion. I'm just curious.

Also, in the interests of full disclosure, I've got an 05 6MT g sedan. It's "mostly" stock. I've got the intake tube from the z, a z midpipe, k&n drop-in, and a set of used kinetix cats. Other than the cats, the other mods probably don't add up to even a tenth. My best run so far is a 14.16@100.6mph. Low elevation, but sorry track prep, and temps in the mid 30's. Same night and track that DayBlueZ ran his 13.39...(congrats btw)

 

Look into the gear ratios. My I35 has the VQ35 but achieves better highway mileage due to gear-ratios. Infiniti knew I wouldn't need a tall (spend less time in gear) first and second gear so the Z would definately win in that sense. Many people who go from the G35c or M3 rave about the Z's first gear acceleration.

 

Nope, identical transmissions and final drive's.

final drive: 3.54

The 350z's ratios:
1 - 3.79:1
2 - 2.32:1
3 - 1.62:1
4 - 1.27:1
5 - 1.00:1
6 - 0.79:1

G35 6MT's ratios:
1 - 3.79:1
2 - 2.32:1
3 - 1.62:1
4 - 1.27:1
5 - 1.00:1
6 - 0.79:1

 

I don't think you're over simplifying.

What it ads up to is about a .3 second and 3mph difference in the 1/4 mile.

And that's what we seem to see at the track. I see no problem.

Of course, that's 6 speed to 6 speed, auto to auto. Start mixing things up and the difference is greater. (300hp m6 350z vs. 260hp auto G35 for example).

 

In addition to the weight difference, I think it's safe to say that more guys race their Zs than Gs. Thus there are more people out there to run the good times, 13.6s and such. Only a very small percentage of Z owners run 13.6s and 13.7s stock. Say 5% of Z owners run 13.7 or better, 5 percent of say 100 Z racers would be 5 guys in the 13.7s or better, but maybe only 10 G guys raced their cars, 5% of 10 is not even 1, so you might not get anyone who has that lucky day at the track with good weather conditions, a good driver, good track, and a good run.

 

More of the driver's weight is distributed on the rear-wheels on a Z than a G? So better traction off the line?

Z's wheel base is shorter so we're almost sitting on the rear-wheels (giving it a more effective squat off the line) as oppose to the G, where it's wheels are further back below the trunk?

 

First off the difference between the G and Z is about 3 tenths of a second. I dont really see what your talkin about how the Z seems to be 5 - 6 tenths of a second faster. And IMO most ppl cant pull 13.7- 13.8 seconds in their Zs, alot of them do but i would think majority doesn't ( some Z owners cant break 14 seconds) and when they dont guess what? They dont post it on the forum and you dont know about them. Cause its nothing to get excited about. I've seen Gs post 14 sec to 14.1 sec which is 3 tenths slower than the 13.7 - 13.8. And i think your point about Zs going to the track more and having more experience in racing is probably true also. Also you have to take into consideration that there are just more Z owners out there posting times in forums than g35 drivers. At any given time my350z usually has more members signed on than g35driver. So its a more active forum with more posts. So of course you are naturally going to see more ppl posting faster times, theres just simply more posts. Also last but not least i wanna add imo, because im a forum member of both, i feel the ppl in my350z seems to have a bigger ego and more pride, probably dued to the fact that 350z owners are generally a younger crowd and more of a car enthusiast than g35 drivers. It seems that when their Z is unable to break the 14 second mark, alot of them are just too embarassed to say anything, because when they do, a bunch of ppl will start talkin alot of crap sayin how he cant drive. Whereas in g35driver, i've seen ppl post times as slow as 15 seconds on their g35 and alot of ppl seems to be more helpful, and they try to offer their insights on how to launch and stuff. i guess in a way g35 drivers dont have as big of a ego as 350z members, they can live through the fact that there are g35 drivers out there that cant drive and will post slow times. Whereas alot of 350z drivers feel they are embarassing every 350z driver by posting a slow time because you are showing ppl that the 350z is slow. lol again just imo, you guys can disagree.

Bottomline: 350z owners tend to be younger than g35 owners(generally speaking) which = more pride, bigger ego, more of a racing enthusiast (which results in better track times), participates in forums more actively, too embarassed to post slow times but quick to post fast ones and last but not least there are more heavily modded 350z. ( im saying this because alot of 350z members are posting some pretty fast times with their modded 350z and although we know they aren't stock, that can unconsciously cause a false impression that 350z are so much faster when in fact they just have more modded 350z).

 

While I can guy the youth and ego argument, you can't discount the ego and condescension of g owners. As a group, g owners typically look down at most other cars, even the z. While they can't claim the g is faster, they usually try to assert the g is sexier and nicer; which is all subjective anyway. And it's not just toward the z; g drivers all know the g is better than anything else out there, at least that's the impression I get after being a member of at driver for a while. For the coupes, they usually compare against z's, stangs, sti's, evo's, and even the occasional m3. For the sedans, we usually claim superiority of the audi's, bimmers, and TL's.

Cool. Thanks for the feedback guys.

Oh, and does anyone know off hand some ranges on times for the roadster? I've seen a few threads requesting times, but there's not been much participation/response. With the roadster weighing ~3450(again, different weights for different trims, options, and packages), I would figure it would be a better comparison to the g stock for stock in straight-line speed.

 

I don't know about the weight distro on the z. On the 03/04 g's, it was right at 52/48. On the 05's, it's 53/47.

 

Finally a thread with no flamers!!!

So can anyone explain this issue in "lay-man terms"????........

Good Thread buddy
Cheers,
Lou

 

I am a practiced 350Z racer who can run 13.90 seconds. Heads up I can beat the 14.85 second G35 above. But its no big deal because I race handicap anyway. I will spot the G35 above 0.95 seconds, and the first driver to cross the finish line wins. Sometimes I win – sometimes I lose, but its all good. Racing is about the driver, not the car.

 

I think the reason you see more Z's running 13.8's or lower stock than G's hitting 13.9 stock is because more Z owner track their cars. Trust me Ive seen some worthless Z and G drivers, but unfortunately the G drivers seem to be worse more times than the Z owners. For example back when I was running 13.7's @ 104 with i/e, a guy in a G35 pulls up to the staging lanes like hes hot $hit. He had intake, headers, exhaust, and a cocky attitude. The douche bag was running 14.8 @ 97 I guarantee if more G owners tracked their car we would see better overall times. and not so much of a difference in times. Most of these G guys, like many M3 guys think more expensive luxurious car = faster, not the case. I guarantee if I ran a stock G coupe 6 speed of course I could hit 13.8, even 13.7's @ the good tracks in MD.

 

I consistently run .6 faster in my Z than I did in my G35. I went a different direction on mods so its kind of a apples to oranges comparison. Mods on the G35: Stillen intake with 350Z tube, Kinetix test pipes, Borla TD. Mods on the Z: ACT clutch/JWT flywheel, Nimso lsd, popcharger, and gutted cats. FWIW, adding a plenum and lightweight crank pulley made no noticable difference in my e.t. or trap speed.

 

Hmm.. not to mag race or anything. But i think magazine times is a indication of something. I have never seen one that has the Z 5 to 6 tenths faster than the G, atleast not the 6mt coupe. At most i've seen was 3 tenths, and ive seen as low as 1 tenth. You would think that if the Z is that much faster, one mag would have them as just that. But none. Bottom line, I think Z drivers just like to track more and have more experience. G drivers i think are more the type to cruise around in their cars, not that many hardcore racing enthusiast. I see alot more modded Z's then G's, that just shows you the difference in mentality of Z drivers and Gs.

 

I can count the guys that race their G's on regular basis on my left hand. Yeah, it's that bad. We hardly have anyone that races on any sort of regular basis. I too am amazed by the slow times a majority of the G35's post. 14.6 seems to be the average for 6MT Gs and 14.8 for the 5AT. I don't really understand it. Everyonce in a while you'll read post by a G owner that actually knows how to drive and they've pulled a sub 14.4.

I've only taken my 03 5AT sedan to the track once. In conditions with a calculated density altitude of around 2,300', my G's first run netted a 14.65@97.6mph with a horribly bogged 2.3 60 foot. I hotlapped it and got a 14.49@97.6mph with a low 2.2. The next few passes were 14.5s. The only things I did to the G was add the Z intake pipe, remove the spare, and had a 1/3 tank of gas. I can do 14.5s in this car with my eyes closed. Simply shallow stage, foot on brake, foot on gas to floor, almost immediately remove foot from brake. Not even a chirp from the tires and it will get a high 2.1/low 2.2 60 foot everytime. Manually shift 2nd and hold 3rd. Done deal.

Like others have already stated, there are far more Z owners that race on the strip, they have a lot more experience, and they understand the physics of drag racing. The Z is also naturally quicker because of it's 100-120lb lighter weight, fractionally more power, and the 5ATs don't suffer from the programmed 1st gear bog like the G's do.

 

Anyone have any idea how much that CF driveshaft weighs (in the Z) compared to the ones on the G35?

 

ok figured i would chime in here, really think it does have to do with the actual drivers, i have raced cars forever, i mean back when honda s werent ricers, well at least to the import world. 14.2 is my best time stock. i have a 5AT sedan though so i dont know if that even counts, now i am on a mission to break some stuff.....


slicks will be here tuesday, see whats the weakest link!!!

 

Driveshaft?

 

I think all of you pretty much hit it on the head. Not to steer the subject in a different direction, but most G buyers need a back seat(that's where most of the weight and driveshaft differences are). I need it for that occasional time I take the kids somewhere. Most other G owners don't track their car as much, because they have a family(time). I would have bought a Z but the wife said no, "you need a back seat". I am very happy with the G though and I do take it to the track(road) once an awhile, so it gives me all I need in a car. Unless your young, or single, or use the Z as third car, or whatever, the Z would be an impractical car. Albeit, a very cool impractical car.

 

The Z's CF driveshaft is only 6" shorter and most likely weighs a few lbs less than the G solid alumninum unit. The Z's wider and heavier rims/tires are more than enough to offset any minimal gain associated with the CF driveshaft.