first350

iTrader: (24)

I'm about to go to my first drift day and have been reading up on all the different methods...I've done AutoX and track days and have drifted around corners on accident and for fun , but haven't tried working on doing it w/ more control. Hope I don't look too foolish out there

to my Q:
Do the pros left-foot-brake to help control the car around tight corners? The more videos I watch, the more it looks like they're using the front wheels to brake when going around tighter corners.


*I have my old OE rims and tires that I'll be using...they're pretty low on tread, so I'm planning to keep my front street wheels on (245 BFG KDW's), and then use both front & rear OE tires on the rear (I'm bringing both front and rear b/c I'm not sure how much rubber I'll go through). Seems like a good way to say good-bye to the stockers

**suspension: I have adjustable coilovers...I'm planning to run:
Front: full soft
Rear: full stiff
...seems like that would give me a suspension ready for drifting, right?

any other pointers are welcome too.

thanks for the help,
Peter

jaida86

iTrader: (2)

i wouldent recommend using your left foot to break, they are sidestepping the gas and on the break with thier right foot. the left foot should not touch the break.

but if thats something you wanna experiment by all means try, there really is no right or wrong to it.

every drifter to his own style

first350

iTrader: (24)

sounds kinda like heel-toe shifting, without the shifting...thanks for the info! (I'm not sure if I'll be able to try any of this stuff out - if it's anything like my first AutoX, just making it through the course took 100% of my attention)

aaronlosey

iTrader: (1)

yes some of them do left foot brake, but this is tough in a 350z because it cuts throttle when your on the brakes, unless you do some electrical tom foolery. have fun.

first350

iTrader: (24)

I already have a switch to take care of that...I had been doing a lot of drag racing last year - instead of pulling the brake fuse everytime for a good burn-out, I made a switch for ease.

jaida86

iTrader: (2)

here was an asnwer to the same overall question on another thread i made. hope it helps

feint is fine, but dont bother burning your ebrake. your ebrake should only be used if you can get enough oversteer in the middle of a drift. and im definatly not talking about pulling it up more than 2-4 inches if you pulling it higher then that then get ready replace some parts. the technique i use most is lets say your coming into a larger banking turn maybe 180 deg. turn (half circle). If im coming in at around 65-70 Mph then i brake for maybe roughly 2-3 seconds about 100 or so feet from the turns entry point. you should feel all the wieght of the car go forward and that when you wanna get on the gas a little. once entering the actual turn ill sidestep the gas, a little just before letting off the break. depending on how you like to control your throttle will depend really on how much you brake and steer in and accelerate though... so you cant purely go off my explanation. get on the gas some more and control the drift with braking and gas. make sure to accelerate out of the turn.... that goes for any exit.

your slip angle is going to be dependent on your style to its hard to maintain big angles at first so just stay in your comfort zone.

im sorry if that explanation is vague but not everyone is the same, nor has the same setup for suspension and tires etc.

also sorry for any typing errors i may have had.

jjwalker

iTrader: (2)

Just curious where did you hear this? I have no problem heel/toeing if the throttle is being cut this wouldn't be possible.

first350

iTrader: (24)

I also don't have problems heel-toe down-shifting...the throttle isn't cut 100%, but probably about 50%...so maybe it doesn't effect heel-toe, or maybe heel-toe occurs too quickly for the ECU to react.

if you want a quick check to see if the ECU really does cut power w/ both the accelerator and brake depressed, try to power-brake (how ppl do it at the drag races)...the engine just doesn't seem to have the power to 'roast' the tires (but we all know the Z has plenty of powa!). Take out the Brake fuse (in the lower left side of the driver's compartment)...after that, power-braking is no problem. (***you're brake lights won't work w/ the fuse out....so don't drive around like this)

-Peter

tomiegunzz

iTrader: (2)

Does anyones ebrake stick sometimes when putting it down?

first350

iTrader: (24)

nope ...does yours ?

drz

I'm surprised nobody has caught this yet. This is probably the #2 n00b mistake I run across at our local drift events, right after the misconception that just mashing the throttle will magically make the car drift. Adjusting your suspension as you've described will probably make the car completely uncontrollable - all it'll want to do is spin out every time you initiate or transition. For drifting, a softer rear setting and a stiffer front will provide much needed stability.

When you first start drifting, you'll probably have a hard time distinguishing between problems related to your car's handling and things that need improvement in your driving. So at first it's a good idea to be really conservative with your car's setup until you have gained enough experience (8 drift events or more) to know what to look for - this is where starting with a stock car has it's merits. I'd recommend setting your car to have a lot of "understeer" in the shocks (nearly full stiff front, nearly full soft rear), it will make the car much more forgiving and less prone to spinning out. The trade off will be it'll be a little more difficult to initiate a drift - but this can be overcome easily with proper use of the many techniques available for starting a drift - i.e. clutch-kick, feint, e-brake, etc. . . .

06r33z

iTrader: (2)

drz

It's not a matter of "hearing" - the 350Z cuts throttle when the brakes are applied, this can be verified by anyone who has tried to do a standing burnout in their 350z. The engine control is smart enough to allow light throttle for heal-toe, but doesn't allow large throttle inputs when it senses the brakes are applied when the car is rolling. Disabling the ABS system is the band-aid cure, as it blinds the engine control of the vehicle's speed so it thinks the car is standing still, under which circumstance it allows simultaneous throttle and brake.

first350

iTrader: (24)

Now I have a reason/excuse for all the times I spun out!

shmately

Not to be a dick, but slip angle is not how sideways you are. Slip angle is how much your tire moves around on your rim when cornering. Thats why high profile tires feel so unresponsive as compared to a low profile tire. Your slip angle depends on your wheel and tire combination and tire pressure.

Now onto the left foot thing. Don't worry about it untill you want to start expermenting. A LOT of pros do it, some used to(maybe still) have switches to disable their brake lights to fool the judges, they caught onto that pretty quick.

All left foot braking does is pull you to the outside. A lot of pros use it to stay up next to the wall on the oval tracks.
(cough.....tanner froust...cough......AEM 350z.....cough)

It is also used to make smoke and so you don't have to lift off the gas. I personally only use it if I want to make a smoke show or when I'm doing doughnuts or figure 8s. It allows you to throw the weight to the front faster and make tighter, more precise slow speed turns and transitions.

Drz has posted some good info, a lot of people don't realize that your need to set up your car for understeer if you want it to be forgiveing.

What with this throttle cut thing, is it only if you use abs?
I left foot every once in a while and have had no problems at all. I don't use abs though.

I wouldn't change a thing on the car from your daily setings untill you have a reason too. I learned on the car stock and the only adjustment I had was tire pressure. Don't go crazy with your settings untill you learn to drift on a basic setup. Definately run a staggerd tire setup, 225 or 235 up front and at least a 245 in back.

It will ultimately come down to how YOU want your car setup to fit your needs. Some drivers like to go for maximum angle, some want more speed, you'll find out what you want in your setup after a few events.

jaida86

iTrader: (2)

i never said that... i said this was a general explanation. BUT if your slip angle is great your angle is going to differentiate becuase of how much your tire is moving on your rim.....

your slip angle will effect your drift angle

first350

iTrader: (24)

it's not direclty tied to the ABS...it basically cuts power to the engine when you have the brake pedal and gas pedal depressed at the same time...the ECU takes that as something is going wrong (i.e. driver is doing something stupid) and cuts power to the engine. I do heel-toe downshifting all the time in the Z and have never felt it cut engine power, but I do know it happens when you try to do standing burnouts...you end up look'n lame when you try to show off, and the car won't do it. (if you pull the brake fuse, the signal that your brakes are on never gets to the ECU and thus power braking is possible)

thanks for the info on left foot braking...I'm hoping to get out to another drift practice sometime this summer - it was lots of fun!

-Peter


here's a cool pic I got from my 1st drift practice...a single pic makes me look better than if you watched the video (lol):

shmately

Your slip angle will not affect your drift angle at all. It's simply something that happens when you turn the car. The tire moves from the center point that it has when standing still. I've hit full lock with 50 series tire(big slip angle) and with 30 series tires(much less slip angle due to the shorter sidewall) It has nothing to do with it. I've also hit full lock in a dodge ram on truck tires(not sure of the size-bfg a/t)

Again, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or something, I just think you may have been misinformed.

When you refer to "your slip angle depends on your style" and big angles being hard to maintain in one sentence. Your basically saying that the slip angle is the angle of your drift, sorry if the words confused me, but I'm sure you see why. You don't maintain slip angles, and your style has nothing to do with your slip angle. And I don't see how a slip angle could be dependent on anything but your wheel/tire combination and your tire pressure. It's really not something you need to worry much about. Other than the fact that overinflateing your rear tires will make a smaller contact patch and less slip angle makeing the car oversteer more. But a bigger slip angle will allow easier transitions and more confidence in getting more drift angle, you can still get big drift angles with a smaller slip angle but it's harder.

Here is a better explaination than I can give:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_angle

Back to the throttle cut thing, I've never had the throttle cut at all when left footing. All I have done to the brakes is pull that huge red abs fuse.

jaida86

iTrader: (2)

oh no no no no imnot offended or madoranything i think we just keep getting our words tangled. i shouldent have combined the two. but i think we both knew where we were trying to take it lol.

anyways on the explanation he gave above. its how i should have written it.

shmately

Yeah, I knew what you were getting at.