I've been following this thread since the begining and watching most of the splinter threads and all i have to say is that this is BS. WE bought the vehicles, WE paid the cash. Why do we have to do all this BS with the ECU/ECM to get it to run like we want it? We shouldn't have to hack the damn thing. It's not like we are trying to steal free satellite signals. Can this little BS system not be taken off and replaced with something else? It's not the Cold War erra where everything is a great big secret. It's a freaking fuel system for freaks sake! I think Nissan should step up and offer a solution to this problem. Ok, granted that it voids any warranty on the vehicle that pertains to the motor, that should be OUR choice. They (Nissan) should give us the answer to get to the 320hp. Hell, every company out there is making huge HP muscle machines with alot more than that. When i bought my vehicle, i was in the market for a SC430 and came across the Z. I wasn't into performance at all. I was looking for a great looking vehicle and the SCs' were hard to get during last summer. So, i went with the Z. Now, i WANT performance and have to do a song and dance to get it. I should be able to do this with a vehicle I paid for without having to stress the motor with FI. This whole thing just pisses me off!

 

Well, at my local track I can get 103 or 110 unleaded ...

 

Companies do not make cars in order for consumers to modify them. They aren't worried about the 10% who modify their car when they are designing a car. I imagine the first thing they think is will this make money? Second would be will this clear government restrictions?

They have no concern with what we are going to do with the cars.

The 350Z ECU would be almost impossible to replace. Rumors are that I-Speed USA is making a replacement.

 

Damnit.......! 40 min of my time taken away...

j/k Well..... who ever finds out the answer(s) to "ECU/ECM & 02Sensor" programming and/or fooling it without breaking the bank, will be a rich ****!

VERY disheartening to say the least...

And watch them/Nissan bring out a 350Z in 06 or 07 with @ 30+ hp by simply doing just that.

 

Also....... ~Note to self...~ Any "performance thread" over 3 pages long... go to last page first!

 

The answer to our problems is...


Fifty.

You can thank me later.

 

50 what?

 

That's just the answer. Now we must figure out what hte question was, and we can solve this issue.

 

Detecting some hitch hikers guide to the galaxy joke in here.

 

uplz4588,

well, the Lspec is nice for what it does - I'm going to get my ECU reflashed for that soon. It obviously doesn't do anything to address the emissions side of things, just raise rev limiter etc.

the E-manage will adjust injectors, but those injector levels are still based on the ECU's maps.

BTW does anyone know any details on the E-manage. Someone here said it can read the MAF voltage but to my knowledge it can't actually adjust MAF voltage, just read it. Also does anyone know with the Greddy TT kit, is the E-manage the piggyback choice to tune the car that Greddy offers for the kit? To my knowledge it is. It's interesting that Greddy TT has blown probably more engines than any other TT kit. I wonder if there's an issue with the E-manage - or that it might not address all the issues involved with the ECU.

Anyway, back on subject, if the MAF voltage can't be addressed, the ECU will still try to adjust things. This is what ChrisMcagle's (did I spell that right?) issue was I think. He would get it tuned, then later it'd all be messed up and he'd have to retune. Each time he'd never gain any power.

If you do the O2 sensor mod, then that at least locks that issue down.

So you'll have taken care of the O2 sensor part, the fuel part, but not the MAF voltage part. I'm not sure how to do that. I'm curious if you can run both an Apexi SAFCII and E-manage at the same time, but you might not be able to and doubtful it'll work without some weird issues/conflict.

So that leads you to wanting to get an EMS.

I'm not thrilled with any of the EMS solutions - or the ones that do look like they have promise, aren't being worked on or I can't get in my area, still leaves the OBDII crap intact for the ECU and has some propietary concerns with tuning - and no one has much experiences with it, or it just costs way too much money and being installed by someone who's never worked on a Z. Some people say certain EMS's have some issues that aren't ideal.

I'm not an EMS expert, just know what I've read up on. But I don't want to shell out thousands of $ for something that might or in theory should fix the ECU issues, and get minimal gains from.

I'd rather spend that big money towards FI where people have been sucessfully making their car perform. Only problem is it's a boatload of money to do right. I'm going to have to skimp in a couple areas like clutch and wheels/tires and go with low/stock boost for now and address those things and raise boost later when I'm not as chocked with money.

I just want my car to run right. It might just be my car that's the issue and other people with exact mods might be running just fine.

I don't like feeling like I'm giving up on NA. I typically don't give up on things until I finish. But I'm looking for a solution for my particular car, and I'm not comfortable with any of the potential solutions - especially since no one can for sure confirm that they'll work great and be worth the few thousand $ to do them.

The Unichip looks like it might have potential - I guess it adjusts the MAF voltage. I don't know though. Again no one has really figured this stuff all out yet and has a definite solution that's practically guarenteed to work. I'm not so thrilled about buying injectors, fuel return system, cam/crank wires, and fuel management system and not knowing it'll work. I don't want to gamble with my money. That stuff will all have to be sold when I went FI some day too at a loss because it all comes with the APS kit. I can afford FI right now - and probably a better build up than most people doing FI - not quite the level I'd ideally like to be doing cause I don't like skimping out on any components, but I will do an engine rebuild, jet hot coating, etc

The only parts i'll be changing out are the headers, tilton clutch, UR pulley, JWT popcharger, and UR CF intake tube and sell them. The tilton and UR pulley I'm kinda glad to get rid of anyway because of the controversy about if they're unbalanced or not. One thing is for sure they're hard to drive. Believe me I've gotten good at driving my car with them, but I'm kinda tired of feeling so delicate with the clutch/gas pedals and all the squeeling and noises the tilton makes. I'll stick with the 3.9 gears for now just to try them out - I'm not gonna have much traction as is with 245 front tires and 265 rears, but I do have an LSD. Chances are I'll probably sell/swap my pumkin to someone straight across along with some money, then use that money to buy the ATS carbon LSD so other than the pain of it, that shouldn't cost me much money

the quality of gas doesn't matter. If I go and use 101 octane gas and reset the ECU, it still goes into safe mode. Only reason I was mainly using shell is because I read a lot of people here said their Z seems to like shell the best - I know, maybe it's BS. I used to use nothing but cheveron. I'm not sure I can tell a difference. It's still all crappy 91 octane in AZ, unless I get 101 at $5.50/gallon

 

Gotta have a message when you reply within the quote with VB3...bah...

 

yeah I've actually considered the KJR crank pulley, but the main issue is I'm not sure what to do with fuel management and coming to realize that by the time I spend all the money for it, I'll have spent like $4000-6500 for probably nothing other than a steady controllable ECU/EMS and maybe a few more hp.

The "cheap" possible solution of the Apexi and E-manage - yeah it just might be possible. I don't know if it is or not. I just don't want to spend $1000 to find out it isn't then have to sell them.

In the case of FI, I'm maybe wrong (would love to know more details) I think some of the piggybacks are able to adjust the MAF voltage and injectors. But I don't think you can buy them by themselves (other than the E-manage, but that doesn't adjust MAF voltage to my knowledge) Even if you could buy those FI piggybacks, they're setup for really large fuel mappings and you'll end up having to scale them way way down.

 

It's kind of funny that this is still being discussed. I spoke with a Nissan engineer as well. His take, the ECU will not affect gains that should be produced by NA mods.

There are a few things I have problems with when reading the above and the 2002 post by Internet Abyss.

First, I was told that the car was not detuned from 320 hp to 287. Rather, the Z was tuned as efficiently as possible. And, that FI would result in blown motors by detonaton because the efforts made to tune the car to it's maximum potential.

Second, adding mods has infact resulted in dyno proven gains.

Third, if the ECU was as much a limiting factor as suggested, then the Technosquare should eliminate the restrictions and should have provided far greater gains than it does.

I remain comfortable with the opinions I've received from my source that there is no problem with the ECU and that mods do produce gains and that the ECU will not limit those gains.

 

I don't think anyone is questioning the fact that the 350Z gains horsepower...it does, it just doesn't gain what it should.

 

Well then again this is a theory. It may be BS.

If this was true i don't think 290 whp all motor would be possible like some people on these forums have.

I've seen dynos with higher #'s from NA mods as well.

 

there's so many factors with dyno numbers though. It isn't absolute.

You could easily have a car that dynos 270 on one dyno at a certain location out do another car that makes 280 at another location/dyno

yeah the whole thing might be a bunch of BS and maybe our V6 really is just maxed out.



there's a lot of suspicious things happening though.

-People's A/F changing over time to get more lean

-People losing power over time

-resetting the ECU often seems to regain power

-some people saying the engine runs lean, others saying it runs rich

-stock cars making as much or more power than cars with a fair amount of power NA mods

- why doesn't the ECU give more fuel on it's own when you add more NA power mods




I really believe the ECU's primary concern is wanting to gradually ease the car into getting maximum gas mileage.

I think it has a long term and short term data log and always goes back to the long term log. If you primarily daily drive and occasionally gun it, you're mostly cruising and need better gas mileage. The ECU can't predict exactly when you're going to go WOT so it tries to pick what you're most likely to do - which according to the long term data is usually cruising on at partial throttle.

If your Z is a race car and do nothing but WOT 90% of the time, then even the long term data is showing WOT and the ECU will set itself up for WOT driving



the whole thing maybe just MIGHT be the stock fuel system isn't all that great. It might be that you NEED better injectors and a return fuel system to get the needed fuel for extreme NA mods

Ok, then if that's the case, who's going to be the first to upgrade that stuff on a NA car and find a way to manage higher flowing injectors? If that's the case, what fuel management system do you go with that will reliably work???? I'm just not sure anyone knows yet - or someone post their findings...

 

Technosquare can scale injectors up to 750cc.

 

Yup, only i used my own favorite number

 

This is all very shitty. How is it that this seems to be the onyl car people can't figure out!?

 

we have a motor that is getting some 12.5comp pistons ported head and larger valves with some proto cams in it? guess that will be the first.