Sentry,

Im not trying to be a jerk or anything, just offering my opinion so here it goes. You are having issues with N/A, what makes you think you will not have issues with F/I? As we all know, F/I is all about the tune and any little glitch or error can have serious consequences. What if your Z is just defective? It would suck to invest 20-25k on a complete F/I setup only to have it blow up in ur face, literally. If anything N/A is not the problem, you simply are not prepared for high level N/A. The fuel work/tune you are doing with F/I is the solution, why not just do this to compliment your current N/A setup instead of going with F/I? You state you do not want to chart new territory but here you are hoping an F/I setup will solve your issues... I wish you the best of luck with your Z but I firmly believe the problem must be solved now before you go adding other things to the equation. If anything, a return fuel system and fuel managment installed on your N/A Z could be kept in there if you ever decide to go F/I.

Best Regards,

Reav

 

yeah I see what you're saying but I'll be using the fuel system and fuel management that comes with the APS kit. This is a proven method for fuel capacity and fuel tuning

I won't be relying on technosquare and the stock fuel system for my A/F

if the crank/cam wires are my issue, then the APS kit covers that


Yes, I CAN get a different fuel system and higher injectors, but I'm not feeling good about tuning the A/F with what's currently out on the market. There's some possiblities that might work, but no one knows for sure that they will yet.

that and I was wanting to eventually go FI anyway. So buying all those things trying to troubleshoot it piece by piece will just cost me more money in the long run vs replacing everything in one chunk

People do know the APS kit works fine.

I'll be getting a new short block so it'll actually be a new engine for the most part. During the process of taking the engine apart, there'll be a chance a tech can inspect the heads for any potential issues.

I didn't start having my current problem until I got the ECU flash, but it was the day after I had my mods put on.

So with the APS kit scenerio, I'll have a new block, new fuel system, new injectors, new wires, new engine managment, stock clutch, stock crank pulley, TS L-spec flash

I can't think of anything else to change that might be causing my issues other than the heads and headgasket. And I haven't even decided yet if I want just the short block or if I want a new full long block yet...

It'll practically be a new car in a lot of ways

 

sentry, you don't have cams?

 

yes I have cams

 

AAM tuned my z on the dyno and i have a great air fuel ratio now 13.2-13.4. I have alot of NA mods and im putting down 270 sae hp at the wheels and im a automatic. I had technosquares flash and my car was still running lean. Dont get me wrong they are a great company, but i belive you can not tune this car perfect without having it on the dyno. It took AAM 4 hours to get my car perfect. So it proves how hard it is to in fact tune the Z.

Sentry after a reflash the Z wont try to pull fuel again would it, because i thought the reflash is like a permanent solution if its tuned correctly.

Thanks Glen

 

The thing no one has addressed yet is how FI solutions have magically solved the problem with the ECU, but no one else has. I don't see how FI provide any sort of advantage from an ECU standpoint. I think we're relying too much on assumptions with no real hard data.

 

Oh, I was thinking you didn't. That would have explained the lack of 15hp...nevermind though.

 

Did you get a refund from TS? I would think if someone says their product or service does something it should damn well do it, and do it well. Since the reflash caused more issues than anything I would be pissed. You paid for it, you should get ur money back and a free L-spec flash. These boards are powerful, if word gets out about TS boning a fellow Z'er...

Best of Luck,

Reav

You have a PM

 

They refunded my money and were very nice to deal with. I have no hard feelings toward them at all.

Thanks Glen

 

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....54#post1439754

 

sentry, doesnt aps use unichip?
https://my350z.com/forum/tuning/122472-unichip-piggyback-ecu.html

 

Producing more NA power isn't that hard in theory, just time consuming. If someone wants to take the time to do the programming, it really isn't that hard.

The primary regulatory mechanism for almost all modern ECU's is the A/F ratio.

For a max MAF voltage which will be reached sooner with breathing mods, you will have a max programmed fuel delivery, according to the programmed A/F ratio. This is why breathing mods rarely produce more peak power but do slightly increase the area under the torque curve.

Here's the fix to more power:

1. Determine what the actual MAF is with a given combination of mods. Use an intercept unit to scale down the voltage from the MAF to the ECU such that the max voltage correlates with the actual increased MAF.

2. Use larger injectors, and bigger pump if needed, to increase fuel delivery in the same amount as the increase in the actual MAF. The problem then becomes at idle and low rpm when you are adding more fuel due to the larger injectors but are not pulling more air. In this situation you will run too rich, possibly upsetting your A/F enough to throw an SES light. You will need to rescale the injector pulse width from idle to redline to produce a different pulse width curve to match the different air flow curve offered by your breathing mods. Basically this amounts to decreasing injector pulse width at idle and lower rpms. At some rpm point, injector pulse width can go back to normal values since you will be pulling enough air to balance the larger injectors and still maintain stock spec A/F ratios. This will then leave the oxygen sensors happy as well, and you are good to go.

Simple idea, but painstaking to actually do.

 

Edelbrock and I'm sure a few others (eManage)are doing this already :

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/04...edelbrock350z/

Basically the Edelbrock MODULES fool the 350Z ECU into giving the engine more gas. Unfortunately, It is pre-determined and un-adjustable, and it doesn't take the octane level, mods, or other variables into consideration.

 

They do, however, the kit comes with a Unichip piggyback, therefore he would have to sell one when he got the TT kit.

 

i think he means, if the APS kit uses the unichip and it's proven to work, why not use it for NA?

well, that's one of the piggybacks that might work out well for NA - I don't know. All it's base maps are probably for 500cc injectors and expecting FI levels of airflow - I really don't know many details about it with how it works and how versatile it would be for managing NA fuel levels. I just don't know. I could try it and see if it works - but right now I'm tired of messing with troubleshooting with band-aids. I just want something that will work.

The more I think about it, the more I think the stock fuel system isn't optimal for my car. I upgraded all the power stuff, but not the fuel system - which some people have reported isn't very good above 300 crank hp because it starts inconsistently delivering fuel. My car could be having that issue and the ECU is trying to figure out what to do and maybe it just can't.

I don't know, but I could get higher injectors, return fuel system, new fuel pump and either the TS flash to higher injectors, unichip, E-manage, or Apexi, or get an EMS, but none look like thrilling options for me or I can't get certain ones where I live. Those are basically my options for staying NA as I see it. Maybe there's other options I haven't thought about.

I just don't want to spend a bunch of money hoping I'll get my car fixed and still end up with no or small gains in power. It could be possible to net like 10-20hp, but I'm just not so sure it'll happen or not.

With the APS kit, I know exactly what I'll be getting. I'll have a much more drivable car with better gas mileage when cruising (not WOT), a new strong engine block, and TONS more power

 

Sentry, I figured you had seen this: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120768

 

yeah I'm considering it, it does look like it has a lot of promise.

I dunno, I might try it out...haven't decided yet

 

I've never been a very technically-adept person but I have to say that the info sentry typed up was very thorough. Thanks for putting all that time into producing this thread.

 

2 guys on g35driver have tried the UniChip for NA setups and it does not work. One of the guys had one of the UniChip owners help "tune" his car for half of a day and he gained 6-7rwhp off of a custom tune. In the end he got a partial refund because the product did not perform the way it was supposed to.

Here's one of the 2 links... interesting reading

 

For what it's worth; if you're unfamiliar with (Dastek) Unichip, it's actually not a bad tool.

But if you are going with a $$$$$ FI setup, why not go completly aftermarket? Autronic, Motec, etc..

The Unichip is still a chip/piggyback. I'm not sure I'd want to take a risk with it. Emanage, too. Perhaps that's why people are blowing Greddy TT kits? Lack of tuning. Lack of tuning resolution?

Just thinking out loud here. Excellent Posts Sentry!