How the ECU works and what needs to be overcome for NA gains
#41
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Originally Posted by I Hate JDM
I just sat here and read this for 20 miuntes. I didn't learn anything new. There is no useful information here. I want my 20 minutes of my life back.
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well chris mcagle tried the emangae scaling off of a greddy TT map... i dont think that was a good way of doing it as he had to descale (sp) the injectors to get back to stock 290's. im going for an Lspec+Emanage+innovate Wideband (standalone guage kit) i will watch my A/F like a hawk to see any signs of it changing. i can also watch my ignition timing through my Blitz Rvit. so if i have a solid base dataloged of RPM VS Ignition timing at WOT through like 3-5 Gear on tap right after tune+ECU reset i can always go back to that and make sure the car isnt pulling timing.
and if it doesnt and i feel like im loosing power ill know its not pulling timing and ECU is F**ing w/ my MAF. im getting the kinetix IM also so this should add more airflow, BUT its after the MAF so the O2 sensors would need to sence the more air commingin.
i have the nonfouler mod on the TP's also.
any of this make sence?
mods are:
UD crank pully
Injen CAI
Kinetix full IM (comming)
Megan testpipes
Gruppe-s Ypipe
3in Single HKS exhaust
i can get pulled on by a stock 03 Z from a roll... THATS why im dying to get a good tune that wont get hijacked by the ECU... let the quest continue...
and if it doesnt and i feel like im loosing power ill know its not pulling timing and ECU is F**ing w/ my MAF. im getting the kinetix IM also so this should add more airflow, BUT its after the MAF so the O2 sensors would need to sence the more air commingin.
i have the nonfouler mod on the TP's also.
any of this make sence?
mods are:
UD crank pully
Injen CAI
Kinetix full IM (comming)
Megan testpipes
Gruppe-s Ypipe
3in Single HKS exhaust
i can get pulled on by a stock 03 Z from a roll... THATS why im dying to get a good tune that wont get hijacked by the ECU... let the quest continue...
#43
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Originally Posted by nitrousoxidex
so how would exhaust mods take place in this situation? do these matter in those ECU probs becuz isnt it mostly freeing up the pressure and just letting all the gases out? I kno that the test pipes have a big part because of those 02 bungs. but like a catback exhaust doesnt have much to do with the ecu rite since there arent any sensors around that area. Most people just do the intake, plenums, headers, test pipes, and cat back exhaust as NA mods. so can anyone plz describe how everyone of these mods would affect the ecu/power gain prob? sorri if this doesnt realli make sense, i dont even kno how to put these thots into words, haha.
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Originally Posted by kpiskin
So the bottom line to me as a noob is that I shouldn't do anything to my car except FI because the ECU can't handle any changes. Am I wrong?
#47
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Originally Posted by jcn30127
http://www.capital350zclub.com/index...owimages&fid=6
(more off topic, but can't resist the shameless self-promotion
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Enjoy!
#48
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AAM posted on here once saying that for every 6 WOT runs, the ECU adjusts itself to give you more fuel and timing.
Just got off the phone with AEM
they say the EMS for the 350Z is put on hold and they're not currently working on it. Their universal EMS won't work either because it doesn't support drive by wire.
The HKS I'm not really sure about because it still maintains the OBD II stuff - which ok yeah is maybe good for emissions, but I'll bet my car passes emissions regardless if it has it or not. The other things not going for it is finding an authorized HKS dealer near you. In my case, there is one near me, but they've never installed one. And only they will be able to tune it. From what I understand it's software isn't as nice as other EMS's on the market. And I don't like the idea of what if that tuning shop went out of business or they dropped HKS? then I'm screwed....
Motec, there actaully is a Motec dealer about 2 miles away from where I live. Ballpark $ for the M800, harnesses, sensors and tuning is about $5000. It totally replaces the ECU. It will not pass emissions when they go to plug into it to look for any thrown codes so it'll be up to the car doing some driving on the rollars to determine if the emissions are good. Generally if you have cats, you'll pass emissions, but I'm sure it's different with each state. The shop near me says they haven't ever worked on a 350Z and if I went thru with it, they'd try calling Motec to see if someone developed a base 350Z map to work off of. I might be wrong, but it seems motec has the fastest processesors at 32 bit, 66mhz
Someone once said the AEM units are more advanced and friendly than Motec units.
still looking into the Autronic SM2. Sounds promising so far but don't know much about it yet. There isn't a dealer in my state for the SM2. I'm not sure about finding a tuner that knows the SM2 either... SM2 has Intel 16 bit running @ 16Mhz
Just got off the phone with AEM
they say the EMS for the 350Z is put on hold and they're not currently working on it. Their universal EMS won't work either because it doesn't support drive by wire.
The HKS I'm not really sure about because it still maintains the OBD II stuff - which ok yeah is maybe good for emissions, but I'll bet my car passes emissions regardless if it has it or not. The other things not going for it is finding an authorized HKS dealer near you. In my case, there is one near me, but they've never installed one. And only they will be able to tune it. From what I understand it's software isn't as nice as other EMS's on the market. And I don't like the idea of what if that tuning shop went out of business or they dropped HKS? then I'm screwed....
Motec, there actaully is a Motec dealer about 2 miles away from where I live. Ballpark $ for the M800, harnesses, sensors and tuning is about $5000. It totally replaces the ECU. It will not pass emissions when they go to plug into it to look for any thrown codes so it'll be up to the car doing some driving on the rollars to determine if the emissions are good. Generally if you have cats, you'll pass emissions, but I'm sure it's different with each state. The shop near me says they haven't ever worked on a 350Z and if I went thru with it, they'd try calling Motec to see if someone developed a base 350Z map to work off of. I might be wrong, but it seems motec has the fastest processesors at 32 bit, 66mhz
Someone once said the AEM units are more advanced and friendly than Motec units.
still looking into the Autronic SM2. Sounds promising so far but don't know much about it yet. There isn't a dealer in my state for the SM2. I'm not sure about finding a tuner that knows the SM2 either... SM2 has Intel 16 bit running @ 16Mhz
Last edited by sentry65; 05-10-2005 at 10:00 AM.
#49
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I talked to a guy that is really into WRX's and has over 30 years of racing experience (of everything from Baja truck racing to SCCA)...this is what he said...
Regarding the HKS F-Con V-Pro...
"their zone interpilations are junk, they hard cut, there is no soft cut zone tracing"
Regarding the AEM EMS...
"even worse, their zones are all in diff metering systems, one chart is psi, one is bars, one is time over rpm, etc etc"
"if cost wasnt a problem i would have gram weston build me a spec ems, besides that i would go with an autronics"
Regarding the HKS F-Con V-Pro...
"their zone interpilations are junk, they hard cut, there is no soft cut zone tracing"
Regarding the AEM EMS...
"even worse, their zones are all in diff metering systems, one chart is psi, one is bars, one is time over rpm, etc etc"
"if cost wasnt a problem i would have gram weston build me a spec ems, besides that i would go with an autronics"
#50
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Originally Posted by sentry65
Motec, there actaully is a Motec dealer about 2 miles away from where I live. Ballpark $ for the M800, harnesses, sensors and tuning is about $5000. It totally replaces the ECU. It will not pass emissions when they go to plug into it to look for any thrown codes so it'll be up to the car doing some driving on the rollars to determine if the emissions are good. Generally if you have cats, you'll pass emissions, but I'm sure it's different with each state. The shop near me says they haven't ever worked on a 350Z and if I went thru with it, they'd try calling Motec to see if someone developed a base 350Z map to work off of. I might be wrong, but it seems motec has the fastest processesors at 32 bit, 66mhz
Someone once said the AEM units are more advanced and friendly than Motec units.
Someone once said the AEM units are more advanced and friendly than Motec units.
greg
#51
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this is all great info guys, thanks
kinda starting to make me wanna just do FI with the APS kit and use the APS engine management...
problem is I'd be really tight on money if I did it and I'm getting married in 7 months...
otherwise it looks like motec or autronics....and I'm not sure I can find someone to do autronics where I live....or do what GregGSC said and do a cable throttle with the universal AEM EMS
Motec seems to be the best of the best though....
kinda starting to make me wanna just do FI with the APS kit and use the APS engine management...
problem is I'd be really tight on money if I did it and I'm getting married in 7 months...
otherwise it looks like motec or autronics....and I'm not sure I can find someone to do autronics where I live....or do what GregGSC said and do a cable throttle with the universal AEM EMS
Motec seems to be the best of the best though....
Last edited by sentry65; 05-10-2005 at 12:35 PM.
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What about 02 simulators. Those seem to prevent the SES light from going on.
a L-spec reflash, apexi SAFC tuned with wideband 02, and then 02 simulators
wouldn't that do the trick?
a L-spec reflash, apexi SAFC tuned with wideband 02, and then 02 simulators
wouldn't that do the trick?
#53
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Originally Posted by Nano
What about 02 simulators. Those seem to prevent the SES light from going on.
a L-spec reflash, apexi SAFC tuned with wideband 02, and then 02 simulators
wouldn't that do the trick?
a L-spec reflash, apexi SAFC tuned with wideband 02, and then 02 simulators
wouldn't that do the trick?
what's the purpose of the L-spec flash in solving the ECU issue? it doesn't anything other than remove the top speed limiter, and raise the redline, otherwise it's stock
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The raised limiter is essential, the Z produces power easy up to 7000rpm with the bolt-ons we are speaking of.... with would be stupid not to raise limiter with those mods. Also, L-spec includes drive By Wire Re-mapping / 100% throttle position fix (ECU issue) if I'm not mistaken.
You can't touch either of those with any piggyback.
You can't touch either of those with any piggyback.
Last edited by Nano; 05-10-2005 at 01:11 PM.
#56
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Originally Posted by sentry65
this is all great info guys, thanks
kinda starting to make me wanna just do FI with the APS kit and use the APS engine management...
problem is I'd be really tight on money if I did it and I'm getting married in 7 months...
otherwise it looks like motec or autronics....and I'm not sure I can find someone to do autronics where I live....or do what GregGSC said and do a cable throttle with the universal AEM EMS
Motec seems to be the best of the best though....
kinda starting to make me wanna just do FI with the APS kit and use the APS engine management...
problem is I'd be really tight on money if I did it and I'm getting married in 7 months...
otherwise it looks like motec or autronics....and I'm not sure I can find someone to do autronics where I live....or do what GregGSC said and do a cable throttle with the universal AEM EMS
Motec seems to be the best of the best though....
#57
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Originally Posted by Nano
The raised limiter is essential, the Z produces power easy up to 7000rpm with the bolt-ons we are speaking of.... with would be stupid not to raise limiter with those mods. Also, L-spec includes drive By Wire Re-mapping / 100% throttle position fix (ECU issue) if I'm not mistaken.
You can't touch either of those with any piggyback.
You can't touch either of those with any piggyback.
well ok yeah it does all those things and they're all nice. I was thinking this doesn't change how the ECU negates mods though.
GregGSC, how much is involved in switching to a cable throttle? I doubt many people have had experience doing that on the Z. I know it probably isn't insanely difficult but how much money do you think it'll realistically cost to do that?
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Originally Posted by sentry65
GregGSC, how much is involved in switching to a cable throttle? I doubt many people have had experience doing that on the Z. I know it probably isn't insanely difficult but how much money do you think it'll realistically cost to do that?
#59
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btw, Z350Lover is the guy in australia who is running the motec M600 along with nismo S1 cams, VTC, UR flywheel, etc those 3 mods of his I listed might cause weird idling on their own though.
From what I read he just had a weird idling problem
https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/107932-my-vqs1de-is-completed.html
and
https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/103026-my-vqs1-almost-is-on-the-way.html
From what I read he just had a weird idling problem
https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/107932-my-vqs1de-is-completed.html
and
https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/103026-my-vqs1-almost-is-on-the-way.html
#60
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Originally Posted by sentry65
GregGSC, how much is involved in switching to a cable throttle? I doubt many people have had experience doing that on the Z. I know it probably isn't insanely difficult but how much money do you think it'll realistically cost to do that?
Greg