How much serious interest is there in a complete ECU replacement?
05-12-2005, 11:29 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by seanrulz
Huh? I know Charles at CJ motorsports (aka Phunk) has HKS Fcon Vpro on his Greddy TT Z with built motor and he was giving mad props to Fcon Vpro for its high quality and features.
And TCS/VDC/Cruise Control can be all retained and work properly since Fcon Vpro only takes care of engine control and stock ECU still takes care of rest. (at least that's what phunk said if I recall correctly.)
So I think there is nothing you lose except finding HKS Pro dealers is pretty hard.
Someone with more profound knowledge about HKS Fcon Vpro can chime in?
And TCS/VDC/Cruise Control can be all retained and work properly since Fcon Vpro only takes care of engine control and stock ECU still takes care of rest. (at least that's what phunk said if I recall correctly.)
So I think there is nothing you lose except finding HKS Pro dealers is pretty hard.
Someone with more profound knowledge about HKS Fcon Vpro can chime in?
No, I would have to look back through the PM's with Charles, cruise control doesn't work properly and either VDC or TCS doesn't work at all (and I asked if he could fix it on mine and he basically said no (guess he wants to leave it up to someone else to do it)).
05-12-2005, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by KWIKZ
are you kidding me what small market u talking bout thers probably over a million 350Z/G35/maximas/others that are in the same boat as us..
who ever is the first one on this freking planet to have this new ECU replacement is going to be FU$$ING RICH man..
who ever is the first one on this freking planet to have this new ECU replacement is going to be FU$$ING RICH man..
There are less than 250,000 Z/G35 platform cars in the world. So lets say 20% of the owners are serious about performance upgrades. Now we are down to 50,000 worldwide. Now lets say 5% of the owners left are in a position to warrent purchasing an aftermarket ECU. 2,500. Now you are competing against other mfg for this very small market segment. Lets say by some amazing marketing you capture 25% of the market share. 625. Now you have to spread you invetment across those measly 625 sales. Your company has invested probably 500-4000 man hours in development, @ an engineer's/programers pay grade, mfg cost, marketing cost, warrenty issues, legal fees, tech support, etc...
Now as a company, you crunch these number before you even begin to develop this ECU. It's very easy to see why the ECU is hard to cost justify.
Just keep pressuring the mfgs. Eventually it will happen, but it is never going to be cheap.
Last edited by UnderPressure; 05-12-2005 at 02:22 PM.
05-12-2005, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by UnderPressure
I certainly hope you are kidding. The ECU for the Maxima vs Z/G35 is not the same. Similar but not the same.
There are less than 250,000 Z/G35 platform cars in the world. So lets say 20% of the owners are serious about performance upgrades. Now we are down to 50,000 worldwide. Now lets say 5% of the owners left are in a position to warrent purchasing an aftermarket ECU. 2,500. Now you are competing against other mfg for this very small market segment. Lets say by some amazing marketing you capture 25% of the market share. 625. Now you have to spread you invetment across those measly 625 sales. Your company has invested probably 500-4000 man hours in development, @ an engineer's/programers pay grade, mfg cost, marketing cost, warrenty issues, legal fees, tech support, etc...
Now as a company, you crunch these number before you even begin to develop this ECU. It's very easy to see why the ECU is hard to cost justify.
Just keep pressuring the mfgs. Eventually it will happen, but it is never going to be cheap.
There are less than 250,000 Z/G35 platform cars in the world. So lets say 20% of the owners are serious about performance upgrades. Now we are down to 50,000 worldwide. Now lets say 5% of the owners left are in a position to warrent purchasing an aftermarket ECU. 2,500. Now you are competing against other mfg for this very small market segment. Lets say by some amazing marketing you capture 25% of the market share. 625. Now you have to spread you invetment across those measly 625 sales. Your company has invested probably 500-4000 man hours in development, @ an engineer's/programers pay grade, mfg cost, marketing cost, warrenty issues, legal fees, tech support, etc...
Now as a company, you crunch these number before you even begin to develop this ECU. It's very easy to see why the ECU is hard to cost justify.
Just keep pressuring the mfgs. Eventually it will happen, but it is never going to be cheap.
you have a point but we are talking WORLD WIDE sales, i think with the rite product/price it has got to be alot more than 625 units....
i think a simple pre-programed stock replacement that comes in 1,2and 3 stages is going to generate alot more interest/sales than an expensive bi-directional ECU.
05-12-2005, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KWIKZ
you have a point but we are talking WORLD WIDE sales, i think with the rite product/price it has got to be alot more than 625 units....
i think a simple pre-programed stock replacement that comes in 1,2and 3 stages is going to generate alot more interest/sales than an expensive bi-directional ECU.
i think a simple pre-programed stock replacement that comes in 1,2and 3 stages is going to generate alot more interest/sales than an expensive bi-directional ECU.
Just about every car out there has a different setup/combination of parts, fuel, driving styles, etc. If your going to do a general tune for each stage you can accomplish this general tuning w/ products already on the market.
The whole purpose of a standalone is to allow a knowledgable tuner to dial in the engine parameters to fit the specific vehicle.
But back to the thread...
05-12-2005, 04:52 PM
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So would an ECU work worldwide? Aren't there going to be differences in emissions, etc between the different countries? And there are some ECUs available (Esprit or Mine's, I think) but I figured those were only JDM cars, and assumed ours would have to be different, are they just selling reflashed ECUs?
05-12-2005, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by nis350ztt
Right....but take a look at this...https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...3&postcount=50
No, I would have to look back through the PM's with Charles, cruise control doesn't work properly and either VDC or TCS doesn't work at all (and I asked if he could fix it on mine and he basically said no (guess he wants to leave it up to someone else to do it)).
No, I would have to look back through the PM's with Charles, cruise control doesn't work properly and either VDC or TCS doesn't work at all (and I asked if he could fix it on mine and he basically said no (guess he wants to leave it up to someone else to do it)).
05-12-2005, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by seanrulz
Hmm.. that's weird. I'm no expert on ECU's and have no experience of using one, but then I'm wondering why there are so many highly tuned Japanese cars with HKS Fcon Vpro? Not only shop cars that might not need all those VDC/TCS and stuff, but enthusiasts just like us give a praise to HKS Fcon Vpro.. Maybe this is only the case with Z?
05-12-2005, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nis350ztt
What kind of tuned japanese cars? Race cars? That's expected as they don't need cruise control. I'm not sure if it's just the 350Z only or what. Like I said, you could get it to work, but it doesn't seem like too many tuners are willing to do it.
Then, many cars I see there are mostly built in 90's, (Silvia series, Supra, GTR, etc.) so they have less complicated system than that of a Z, so it'll be easier to make Fcon work on those cars.
And yeah, one thing that I thought strange was there were definitely not many tuners who want to touch Fcon Vpro in US, reason being that it is less accessible? I don't know. But lack of user-tunability is definitely a drawback on HKS. Many modified cars in Korea, especially imported Japanese cars use Fcon Vpro, but owners always complain that they have to call and invite tuners/mechanics from Japan because there isn't any HKS pro dealer in Korea as far as I know. It cost a fortune to do it. (about $2k for tuning on dyno including flight tickets, accomodation, 2-day work.)
Ahh.. I wonder when we can have a complete "standalone" that enables full tunability yet retains all the factory features that the car provides?
05-13-2005, 02:27 AM
#73
Originally Posted by UnderPressure
I certainly hope you are kidding. The ECU for the Maxima vs Z/G35 is not the same. Similar but not the same.
There are less than 250,000 Z/G35 platform cars in the world. So lets say 20% of the owners are serious about performance upgrades. Now we are down to 50,000 worldwide. Now lets say 5% of the owners left are in a position to warrent purchasing an aftermarket ECU. 2,500. Now you are competing against other mfg for this very small market segment. Lets say by some amazing marketing you capture 25% of the market share. 625. Now you have to spread you invetment across those measly 625 sales. Your company has invested probably 500-4000 man hours in development, @ an engineer's/programers pay grade, mfg cost, marketing cost, warrenty issues, legal fees, tech support, etc...
Now as a company, you crunch these number before you even begin to develop this ECU. It's very easy to see why the ECU is hard to cost justify.
Just keep pressuring the mfgs. Eventually it will happen, but it is never going to be cheap.
There are less than 250,000 Z/G35 platform cars in the world. So lets say 20% of the owners are serious about performance upgrades. Now we are down to 50,000 worldwide. Now lets say 5% of the owners left are in a position to warrent purchasing an aftermarket ECU. 2,500. Now you are competing against other mfg for this very small market segment. Lets say by some amazing marketing you capture 25% of the market share. 625. Now you have to spread you invetment across those measly 625 sales. Your company has invested probably 500-4000 man hours in development, @ an engineer's/programers pay grade, mfg cost, marketing cost, warrenty issues, legal fees, tech support, etc...
Now as a company, you crunch these number before you even begin to develop this ECU. It's very easy to see why the ECU is hard to cost justify.
Just keep pressuring the mfgs. Eventually it will happen, but it is never going to be cheap.
Underpressure, are you still working on a standalone? I remember you said something about the development of one.
05-13-2005, 09:33 AM
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Yes, the 1st unit is being wired in as we speak. Hopefully it will be fully tuned and all features working in the next few weeks.
We are hoping to be able to sell the ECU & wiring harness for less than $5,500. It will be an easy install, simply remove the stock engine harness and replace w/ the one.
We are hoping to be able to sell the ECU & wiring harness for less than $5,500. It will be an easy install, simply remove the stock engine harness and replace w/ the one.
05-13-2005, 09:41 AM
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Holy cow! I bought my stage II ECU from mopar for an SRT 4 for $350.00. You guys are sick. 5 grand for a street car ECU. Just face it NISSAN SUCKS ! By the way how many of those do you think are out there. I have a little over 300 hp at the rear on that car for about $ 2000.00. Sorry at the front.
Last edited by GUS-Z; 05-13-2005 at 09:43 AM. Reason: correction
05-13-2005, 09:52 AM
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Once again... Since people seem to be incapable of reading previous posts.
This ECU is NOT MENT, DISIGNED OR MARKETED FOR THE AVERAGE OWNER.
IF PRICE IS AN ISSUE THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION FOR YOU.
Currently you could order an ECU from Autronic, AEM, HKS, Haltech, Motec, Microtec, Lightspeed, GEM, MBE, Electromotive, etc.. and make it work on the Z. What everyone is longing for is a plug-n-play solution. If you wanted an ECU to tune the Z it can be done now.
And as a side note for the SRT-4:
Dodge designed and implimented a system of marketing performance parts thru their dealers. They designed the motor to survive thru the warrenty period then detuned it for sale. Dodge then sells the customers upgrades to bring the performance level back up to a level they determined as safe. They know the combination of parts they sell you will not do any damage to increase their warrenty issues. If anything it creates more revenue for Dodge and their dealers. Also w/ a forced induction car it is very easy to increase power output. Just turn up the pressure.
This ECU is NOT MENT, DISIGNED OR MARKETED FOR THE AVERAGE OWNER.
IF PRICE IS AN ISSUE THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION FOR YOU.
Currently you could order an ECU from Autronic, AEM, HKS, Haltech, Motec, Microtec, Lightspeed, GEM, MBE, Electromotive, etc.. and make it work on the Z. What everyone is longing for is a plug-n-play solution. If you wanted an ECU to tune the Z it can be done now.
And as a side note for the SRT-4:
Dodge designed and implimented a system of marketing performance parts thru their dealers. They designed the motor to survive thru the warrenty period then detuned it for sale. Dodge then sells the customers upgrades to bring the performance level back up to a level they determined as safe. They know the combination of parts they sell you will not do any damage to increase their warrenty issues. If anything it creates more revenue for Dodge and their dealers. Also w/ a forced induction car it is very easy to increase power output. Just turn up the pressure.
Last edited by UnderPressure; 05-13-2005 at 10:06 AM.
05-13-2005, 10:00 AM
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What is so hard about the ECU on the 350Z?
I purchased a Dynan Chip for my 1998 (new body style) 328i for $300, at BMW Houston North and they installed it.
I thought the Japanese could do better and cost less than what Dynan did for a higher priced German Sports Sedan.
First time I have seen something in a Nissan cost MORE than BMW.
I guess pigs can fly and hell has frozen over.
I purchased a Dynan Chip for my 1998 (new body style) 328i for $300, at BMW Houston North and they installed it.
I thought the Japanese could do better and cost less than what Dynan did for a higher priced German Sports Sedan.
First time I have seen something in a Nissan cost MORE than BMW.
I guess pigs can fly and hell has frozen over.
05-13-2005, 10:16 AM
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The ECU on the Z is one of the most technically advanced ECU's delivered by any OEM.
What does a ECU upgrade cost for the BMW 750? Oh that right no one makes one.
The 7-Series ECU incorparates the same CAN bus comunication protocol.
If you just want the equivilant of your chip for the Z, www.technosquareinc.com
Someone already covers this market. Same principal as the "ECU upgrade" for th SRT-4's
What does a ECU upgrade cost for the BMW 750? Oh that right no one makes one.
The 7-Series ECU incorparates the same CAN bus comunication protocol.
If you just want the equivilant of your chip for the Z, www.technosquareinc.com
Someone already covers this market. Same principal as the "ECU upgrade" for th SRT-4's
Last edited by UnderPressure; 05-13-2005 at 10:27 AM.
