dch760

iTrader: (7)

Well I have some bad news I guess. I've been talking to the engine builder I will be using, someone who I can trust greatly as he's build many 500+hp engines, as well as 1000+hp engines, and he is heavily advising me not to go through with this.

He says "sure I can get you that much power NA...your cars drivability will be severly sacrificed, you will go through gas like no tomorrow, you will sacrifice torque but have great HP in higher RPMS, but will suck down low....so as a daily driver it's pretty much out of the question" (he said something about the idle becoming a problem...would have helped if I wrote it down).

He finished off by saying "If it were my Z I would get a turbo for the streets, and with a built engine, you will be at over 400rwhp...but hey I will build you anything you want"

After hearing this it makes me think twice about the NA approach. I've always wanted to have the NA beast but I don't want to sacrifice how much I can actually drive my car, no matter how much I like the NA sound. I don't want it to be a weekened warrior only because I love driving my Z too much plus I'm not going to spend $$$$$ to use it only a few times a month.

ken350z

iTrader: (2)

I wonder if the Infinity V8 would fit in a Z.

Nathan

I agree with your Engine builder in some respects but not in others.

1st: There is no greater bang for your buck than a well engineered & tested turbo setup for a daily driven street car. I don't think I am being biased when I recomend the Australian APS kit.

2nd: I disagree with your engineer & believe the NA sugestions I made will not be a comprimise on the road but a very good daily driver with very little loss of power down low but very good middle & top end. After all we are now starting to get close or even exceed the specs of the other 3 to 4 litre screamers like Porchce, BMW & Ferrari & no one ever accuses these makes as being severly sacrificed.
The above mentioned cars all run high rev, HC motors & to my knowlage have no problem with California gas: The Motec will allow you to do the same with your Z.
Z350Lover's car has no problems at all as a daily driver & our gas here in Australia is about the same octane as LA gas.

ReavTek

iTrader: (1)

Your NA Plan sounds awesome I would definetly do a little more research and browsing of the forums before you buy anything else though. I think any mod you make to the car will affect gas mileage as more air is introduced more fuel must be injected as well. Of course with boost you can cruise and be using little to no boost with fairly stock mpg, a setup like you are describing NA will be fairly similar in daily drivability. The only time I would consider an NA setup undrivable on the street is one of those 320/320 Cam setups on a HC 4AGE motor. Your HC VQ35DE with Nismo S1 cams won't be that bad at all. I think combine that NA setup with a 3.9 Final Drive and a lightweight flywheel and you will have a great car.

I have a few questions for the aussies. When you get a Nismo S1 or S2 setup what would you recommend to install at the same time? Is a standalone needed if running on stock compression?

Z350Lover

iTrader: (2)

Peter/Nathan:

I think different engine builders have different point of view... Remember that I was about to buy off a set of HC pistons while I was building up the engine? Eric from HyperTech actually said something similar to what dch's engine builder to turn me off a bit on the N/A built... but it was half way through and that was why I didn't get the HC pistons off you... otherwise I would have been running it and know if we would have any problem... What he said was that by increasing the CR, the engine's reliability will be harder to control than a nice forged internal engine with Turbo kits (either TT or ST)... but he did not mention anything about the driveability of the HC, just mainly on the reliability of the HC N/A engine compare to the forged TT or ST engine... Most likely he is a turbo kinda guy... and he was the head engineer (Gibson Motorsports) for two Winfield R32 GTRs in the early '90 to get the championships and he is still the one tuning and servicing those two racing cars nowadays, saw those 2 race cars in person and they look incredible... I believe that he prefers turbo than N/A for sure mate and that was why he kept on asking me why would I choose to go for the expensive way with less power.... but I think it is just the personal preferences..

ReavTek:

You need to install stronger valve springs with those cams and according to nismo, to get better idling and the low end torque, VTCs are needed... I still cannot be able to access to any reflash here down under and the VTC profiles will need to be re-adjust with those higher angle pieces, therefore we went for MoTeC computer which has the cam control module.... I am sure if TS can TUNE the car for YOU (specifically for your modification on the dyno) while you have those wild cams and VTCs in your car, that will be great though.... but if you are going for HC engine, I will say... motec is the way to go from there...

cheers,

richie

Good day

If you want to go for FI set up on the original N/A engine, even on low boost, be prepared that your car would not be as reliable as the standard N/A. Your car will need more care and you might need to go to the garage more offten. This is from my past experience. Therefore, I prefer mod. N/A. If you are really afraid of rough idel. I would recommend to use Tomei cams 268 lift 10.5 mm. This of cause, give you less power on the high RPM compare to Nismo spec1 in 276 lift 11 mm / ex. 256 lift 10.5 mm but will give you better low rpm torque and almost perfect idle. Tomei cams and a good set of header/pipe will give you a lot of fun and still good for daily use.

Enjoy mod. / driving.

dch760

iTrader: (7)

Thanks guys for all your input and suggestions. I know you were all waiting for an NA monster to come out of this, I was too, but I'm thinking FI is the way I'm going to go.

By my estimates, costs will be around the same between an NA engine build and a FI build. With an NA 3.5 and proper tuning I can expect to break the 300whp mark...I say 300hp only because I will be running 91 gas so that will bring down the numbers. Also, the Motec600 ECU which has to be used costs about the same as a ST.

With a turbo I'll probably be able to break 400whp because I will have a built engine along with it. However, I probably won't even use all that power...I'm happy at around 375-390whp. But it is nice to know I can have even more when the boost is turned up.

I apologize to all of the NA fanatics that would like to see a set up like this, however, as long as the Z is a 3.5 it's going to be very difficult to exceed or match what a turbo can do to our cars...especially for the price.

ReavTek

iTrader: (1)

Very true but this engine really was not made for boost. If you are going to do boost correctly on this car you need to spend money, and all the little gadgets and maintenance really nickel and dime you like crazy. I think Sharif, Phunk and 350ZCalb have all done FI on this car RIGHT, the first time, and that is the only way to do it. If you blow the motor, which is very likely, expect to shell out serious money to replace it... This isn't like an SR20 or a 3SGTE which I wouldn't worry too much about blowing (Since they are easy to get and cheap). For awhile I really have been going back and forth on NA and FI and for the time being I think the single turbo setups have alot to offer but they are still gambles. I think ZIllinois has an awesome NA setup that could keep up with a stock boost ST or SC on the track (the one with turns, drag strips are boring :P) and looks like alot of fun to drive. I would recommend a Tilton 8lb Flywheel if you wanna go all out NA but if you are still on the fence buy a JWT Flywheel setup (which can be used on FI as well) and feel what this little NA 3.5 can do! A new final drive (something that is pretty much un-usable on FI) does amazing things as well. By the end of the summer I'll know whether I'm staying NA or risking it with low boost FI... Wish me luck!

Z350Lover

iTrader: (2)

dch:

Best of luck with the mod that you choose to go with! but if you are going for the FI route, as what Peter/Nathan suggested.... APS TT kit will be your only choice to play safely and since you have those stronger internals (pauter rods and most likely lower compression pistons), you are almost set... you will need to have the engine out for the APS TT anyway and also just add a few hours of labours to build up the bottom end and you are off to go and enjoy 400rwHP.... I even suggested my friend to go for a brand new Z and go with APS TT (He was offering me quite a fair bit of money for my car 1 week ago, but I don't feel like to let go of my car since after 5 months of trying to get it right, I haven't really enjoyed driving it and really like the way it drives now)... and now... my friend ordered an anniversary z and going for APS TT in a few months time... It is just a lot less troublesome to go through since it is a very well developed kit and you cannot go wrong with that... as simple as that.... there are just too many uncertainties out there with the N/A tune (not mature just yet) and that is why I spent quite a lot more money and time than expected to just get it RIGHT... But N/A is really great fun though and if you choose to go that way.... DEFINITELY buy a MoTeC unit from Nizpro and that will save you quite a lot of money since it has a base map already(speaking from my painful experiences), and from there, you just need to tune it RIGHT again for the higher compression pistons and other things you have in mind, won't be easy, but hope the end result will satisfy you if you stay with N/A!!!

All the best!

cheers,

richie

Orange Peel

You'll benefit from having a nismo crank, YOur engine will be reliably reving till 7350 you'll have no worries, plus cams that give you power up to 8500 rpm suck down low usually so 7350 is enough. Just don't float your valves going 7800 or something. Set a rev limmiter at like 74000 or 7500. That's sounds like a good powerband. With high compressio, You should be pushing 340 flywheel hp NA and if you get a tilton Flywheel with that Final drive ratio with that extra towque up high you'll be pullin 4.7 seconds to sixty easily. Make sure you get the full Street version, very good N/A mod. Oh and don't neglect balanceing issues, make sure the whole stup is baance i know Pauter Rods are like exactly the same weight so you should be good. And a nismo crank is very balance as well. You setup is perfect except for Pauter Tiatnium rods, but that's way too expensive. good job. N/A rocks.

mazzoo

iTrader: (1)

The GReddy e-Manage Ultimate can handle the AEBS stroker kit as long as you keep injector size with in the Ultimate's limits. I am using the GReddy e-Manage Ultimate for my motors brake in time before changing to my stand alone ECU. It is running the motor just fine. Really it was quite surprising just how good the Ultimate really is.