Brand New Stop Tech Brake Info
12-12-2002, 05:14 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Copacabana, Rio de Janeiro BR
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brand New Stop Tech Brake Info
Stoptech used my car a couple of weeks ago to run braking tests. Me and my Z were there all day and I left with a prototype stoptech front braking system.
Steve, who is the "brake dork" with ALL the brake info told me to wait until the 10 of Dec when he will do even more testing on 3 more Z's to perfect their braking system.
Well on the 10 (the other day) they tested a base model, performance model and a track model to determine and build the best braking system, They completed the tests and determined that they now have what will be marketed as their customized Stoptech braking system specifically for the Z. He told me he would be designing my system and shipping it out next week. Different sized piston configuration that will increase the ability to stop faster.
To sum it up, the best system for the car is the 13.1 inch Stoptech system that will be marketed almost immediately. (it will be differect than current ones out there) and the good thing (meaning less money) is that there is no need for the 4 wheel system as it did not improve braking over the stock (touring) brakes. (I love honesty)
What he did say that did impress me is that this new system will shorten stopping distances even more so than the Brembo's on the track model! He said the 100 - 0 stopping distance decreased by 15'!
Thats right, BETTER than the Brembos! No need for 14 inch (more weight than neccesary unless your on the track) or rear upgrades either! Stick with the 13.1 front system only along with the stainless steel brake lines and stop on that dime!
ANY QUESTIONS?
Steve, who is the "brake dork" with ALL the brake info told me to wait until the 10 of Dec when he will do even more testing on 3 more Z's to perfect their braking system.
Well on the 10 (the other day) they tested a base model, performance model and a track model to determine and build the best braking system, They completed the tests and determined that they now have what will be marketed as their customized Stoptech braking system specifically for the Z. He told me he would be designing my system and shipping it out next week. Different sized piston configuration that will increase the ability to stop faster.
To sum it up, the best system for the car is the 13.1 inch Stoptech system that will be marketed almost immediately. (it will be differect than current ones out there) and the good thing (meaning less money) is that there is no need for the 4 wheel system as it did not improve braking over the stock (touring) brakes. (I love honesty)
What he did say that did impress me is that this new system will shorten stopping distances even more so than the Brembo's on the track model! He said the 100 - 0 stopping distance decreased by 15'!
Thats right, BETTER than the Brembos! No need for 14 inch (more weight than neccesary unless your on the track) or rear upgrades either! Stick with the 13.1 front system only along with the stainless steel brake lines and stop on that dime!
ANY QUESTIONS?
12-12-2002, 09:01 PM
#3
Banned
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Smackahoe Blvd
Posts: 13,063
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Brand New Stop Tech Brake Info
Originally posted by all_bark
Stoptech used my car a couple of weeks ago to run braking tests. Me and my Z were there all day and I left with a prototype stoptech front braking system.
Steve, who is the "brake dork" with ALL the brake info told me to wait until the 10 of Dec when he will do even more testing on 3 more Z's to perfect their braking system.
Well on the 10 (the other day) they tested a base model, performance model and a track model to determine and build the best braking system, They completed the tests and determined that they now have what will be marketed as their customized Stoptech braking system specifically for the Z. He told me he would be designing my system and shipping it out next week. Different sized piston configuration that will increase the ability to stop faster.
To sum it up, the best system for the car is the 13.1 inch Stoptech system that will be marketed almost immediately. (it will be differect than current ones out there) and the good thing (meaning less money) is that there is no need for the 4 wheel system as it did not improve braking over the stock (touring) brakes. (I love honesty)
What he did say that did impress me is that this new system will shorten stopping distances even more so than the Brembo's on the track model! He said the 100 - 0 stopping distance decreased by 15'!
Thats right, BETTER than the Brembos! No need for 14 inch (more weight than neccesary unless your on the track) or rear upgrades either! Stick with the 13.1 front system only along with the stainless steel brake lines and stop on that dime!
ANY QUESTIONS?
Stoptech used my car a couple of weeks ago to run braking tests. Me and my Z were there all day and I left with a prototype stoptech front braking system.
Steve, who is the "brake dork" with ALL the brake info told me to wait until the 10 of Dec when he will do even more testing on 3 more Z's to perfect their braking system.
Well on the 10 (the other day) they tested a base model, performance model and a track model to determine and build the best braking system, They completed the tests and determined that they now have what will be marketed as their customized Stoptech braking system specifically for the Z. He told me he would be designing my system and shipping it out next week. Different sized piston configuration that will increase the ability to stop faster.
To sum it up, the best system for the car is the 13.1 inch Stoptech system that will be marketed almost immediately. (it will be differect than current ones out there) and the good thing (meaning less money) is that there is no need for the 4 wheel system as it did not improve braking over the stock (touring) brakes. (I love honesty)
What he did say that did impress me is that this new system will shorten stopping distances even more so than the Brembo's on the track model! He said the 100 - 0 stopping distance decreased by 15'!
Thats right, BETTER than the Brembos! No need for 14 inch (more weight than neccesary unless your on the track) or rear upgrades either! Stick with the 13.1 front system only along with the stainless steel brake lines and stop on that dime!
ANY QUESTIONS?
12-12-2002, 10:48 PM
#4
Registered User
It may be that the shorter distances were realized after multiple stops, but who knows for sure.
Even on Stoptech's website, in the technical section, they describe how bigger brakes are not necessarily better because even the weakest factory setup can still activate the ABS in a single stop situation. The only time bigger brakes can reduce the stopping distance is when they prevent fade when compared with a smaller brake. Actually, now I see you've specified 0-100 distances, so maybe the stock brakes can't handle that very well.
Anywhoooo, I will probably go with the 13" stoptech's eventually, since I ended up getting the performance Z instead of the track. The 14" brakes are not really much better for me since I mainly AutoX. I might consider a 4 wheel kit if they were are 13" F and 12" R combo (like the Tracks setup). The current 14" all around package seems to heavy for me.
Glad to hear that the kit will be available soon, but how exactly is it different from the other Z kits they've been advertizing for the past week? Or is it actually the same thing?
-D'oh!
Even on Stoptech's website, in the technical section, they describe how bigger brakes are not necessarily better because even the weakest factory setup can still activate the ABS in a single stop situation. The only time bigger brakes can reduce the stopping distance is when they prevent fade when compared with a smaller brake. Actually, now I see you've specified 0-100 distances, so maybe the stock brakes can't handle that very well.
Anywhoooo, I will probably go with the 13" stoptech's eventually, since I ended up getting the performance Z instead of the track. The 14" brakes are not really much better for me since I mainly AutoX. I might consider a 4 wheel kit if they were are 13" F and 12" R combo (like the Tracks setup). The current 14" all around package seems to heavy for me.
Glad to hear that the kit will be available soon, but how exactly is it different from the other Z kits they've been advertizing for the past week? Or is it actually the same thing?
-D'oh!
12-13-2002, 03:43 AM
#5
Charter Member #34
Join Date: May 2002
Location: -
Posts: 1,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by D'oh
I might consider a 4 wheel kit if they were are 13" F and 12" R combo (like the Tracks setup). The current 14" all around package seems to heavy for me.
Glad to hear that the kit will be available soon, but how exactly is it different from the other Z kits they've been advertizing for the past week? Or is it actually the same thing?
-D'oh!
I might consider a 4 wheel kit if they were are 13" F and 12" R combo (like the Tracks setup). The current 14" all around package seems to heavy for me.
Glad to hear that the kit will be available soon, but how exactly is it different from the other Z kits they've been advertizing for the past week? Or is it actually the same thing?
-D'oh!
the rears are so big because of the intergrated parking brake in the hub. the contact patch on the rears if significantly smaller than the fronts. also the track only (only, hee-hee) has 2 pistons per caliper in the rear...
i would like to see how many runs it took to get a 15' difference.
m
12-13-2002, 07:35 AM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Copacabana, Rio de Janeiro BR
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
they did runs of about 6 each from 60 - 0, from 80 - 0 and from 100 - 0. Most of the runs showed the better stopping distances.
The idea was to heat the braking system up (simulating racing conditions) and see how they held up. The more braking the more they stayed the same (stopping distance)
It seems the best part is that they stay cooler and will resist fading as opposed to the factory brakes.
The difference in the systems out now and what will be delivered starting next week of so is that the brake pistons were re-sized to give optimal stopping as well as optimal front/rear combined stopping.
From Steve, who knows brakes better than almost EVERYONE, the 13.1's for the front are now the way to go!
The idea was to heat the braking system up (simulating racing conditions) and see how they held up. The more braking the more they stayed the same (stopping distance)
It seems the best part is that they stay cooler and will resist fading as opposed to the factory brakes.
The difference in the systems out now and what will be delivered starting next week of so is that the brake pistons were re-sized to give optimal stopping as well as optimal front/rear combined stopping.
From Steve, who knows brakes better than almost EVERYONE, the 13.1's for the front are now the way to go!
Trending Topics
12-13-2002, 01:01 PM
#8
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Palm Beach
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
K question. Right now I am debating if I get a Enthusiast or Track. Reason is I would replace the track rims anyway, and I think I can get better brakes than the Brembo's that come on the track, and still come out with money in my pocket. Question would be this. First off am I losing anything else between enthusiast and track other than the brakes/wheels/ and traction control? and 2
Wouldn't a car look kind of dumb with big ol 13.1" cross drilled painted caliper brakes in the front, and no brake mod in the back? And adding better breaks in the back to an enthusiast adds no stopping power? Just questions for someone who never got around to break tuning =) Damn BMW.
Wouldn't a car look kind of dumb with big ol 13.1" cross drilled painted caliper brakes in the front, and no brake mod in the back? And adding better breaks in the back to an enthusiast adds no stopping power? Just questions for someone who never got around to break tuning =) Damn BMW.
12-13-2002, 04:40 PM
#10
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Palm Beach
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by VQracer
You can get better Brembos (8 pot I believe) but they are hella expensive over $5000.
Enthusiast doesn't have VDC, Underbody diffuser, and aerokit.
You can get better Brembos (8 pot I believe) but they are hella expensive over $5000.
Enthusiast doesn't have VDC, Underbody diffuser, and aerokit.
~Josh
12-14-2002, 04:04 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: <p align=
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
StopTech clarification
I want to clarify some of data reported in the lead thread. StopTech ran mulitiple brake tests on the 350Z Performance model and the track model. We recorded similiar average stopping distances for both 350Z models but the track model had lower rotor temperatures as expected.
We changed out the stock brakes on the Performance model for the StopTech brakes and then repeated the 60-0, 80-0 and 100-0 tests. Using the same tires, driver and track on the same day.
The 332 front only StopTech kit and the 355 front only StopTech kit beat the track and performance model average stopping distances by 3, 4 and 5 feet in the 60, 80 and 100 to 0 tests respectively. The 332 StopTech kit had lower average front rotor temperatures than the track model.
The 355 front StopTech kit had even lower average temps as would be expected from a larger rotor.
This was our second test day for the 350Z. The first test results showed that we needed a new caliper piston size combo to optimize the stopping distances for the 332 kit. We went back to the plant and manufactured the new caliper size. On Wednesday we proved that the new size was indeed ideal. We will be changing out the All_bark calipers next week so he will have the optimum sizes.
Stopping distances are pretty much dictated by traction which is pretty much dictated by the tire's grip on the road. True in any single stop measurement where fade has not yet had a chance to set in. It worries me very much that they claim a shorter stopping distance. I doubt that very much. Just as the Track's Brembos will not stop any shorter than the standard Z brakes in a 1 stop situation.
_______________
Steve Kaufman
Steve in general it is very hard to beat a OE system in 1-3 stops especially 60-0 with stock tires and doing a heads up comparison.
In some platforms we have needed three test days to equal the stock performance on stock tires.
I have some ideas why we improved the stopping distances over the OE systems on these 350Z platforms. The performance model and track models have different calculated front to rear brake torque ratios. Our calculations show the track model is more front biased than the stock performance model. More front bias than needed gives up potential better stopping distances.
So if I had to take a stab at why we beat the stock and track models, I would say we beat stock with a stiffer caliper and we beat the track with better balance. This is my quick, off the cuff answer and our engineering department may have a different opinion or more refined opinion.
If you want to go the track, the 332 StopTech upgrade will more than get the job done and has more heat capacity than the track model.
Bob Lee
StopTech LLC
We changed out the stock brakes on the Performance model for the StopTech brakes and then repeated the 60-0, 80-0 and 100-0 tests. Using the same tires, driver and track on the same day.
The 332 front only StopTech kit and the 355 front only StopTech kit beat the track and performance model average stopping distances by 3, 4 and 5 feet in the 60, 80 and 100 to 0 tests respectively. The 332 StopTech kit had lower average front rotor temperatures than the track model.
The 355 front StopTech kit had even lower average temps as would be expected from a larger rotor.
This was our second test day for the 350Z. The first test results showed that we needed a new caliper piston size combo to optimize the stopping distances for the 332 kit. We went back to the plant and manufactured the new caliper size. On Wednesday we proved that the new size was indeed ideal. We will be changing out the All_bark calipers next week so he will have the optimum sizes.
Stopping distances are pretty much dictated by traction which is pretty much dictated by the tire's grip on the road. True in any single stop measurement where fade has not yet had a chance to set in. It worries me very much that they claim a shorter stopping distance. I doubt that very much. Just as the Track's Brembos will not stop any shorter than the standard Z brakes in a 1 stop situation.
_______________
Steve Kaufman
Steve in general it is very hard to beat a OE system in 1-3 stops especially 60-0 with stock tires and doing a heads up comparison.
In some platforms we have needed three test days to equal the stock performance on stock tires.
I have some ideas why we improved the stopping distances over the OE systems on these 350Z platforms. The performance model and track models have different calculated front to rear brake torque ratios. Our calculations show the track model is more front biased than the stock performance model. More front bias than needed gives up potential better stopping distances.
So if I had to take a stab at why we beat the stock and track models, I would say we beat stock with a stiffer caliper and we beat the track with better balance. This is my quick, off the cuff answer and our engineering department may have a different opinion or more refined opinion.
If you want to go the track, the 332 StopTech upgrade will more than get the job done and has more heat capacity than the track model.
Bob Lee
StopTech LLC
Last edited by CanAmBob; 12-14-2002 at 04:10 PM.
12-14-2002, 04:21 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Copacabana, Rio de Janeiro BR
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Steve, is that you? Thanks for stopping by and correcting my inaccuracies in the braking tests. I oppologize to all for not getting it just right! ( I should have taken notes!)
I am looking forward to the new ones that are arriving soon.
I am looking forward to the new ones that are arriving soon.
12-14-2002, 08:23 PM
#13
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Plano (Dallas), TX
Posts: 671
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bob and all bark, thanks for the info, I think you have me sold....
One question-- How does the 355mm F/R 4 wheel kit affect balance and stopping distance? Any guess?
Oh, where is a good place to buy stoptech brakes and lines, and what kind of fluid do you recommend?
One question-- How does the 355mm F/R 4 wheel kit affect balance and stopping distance? Any guess?
Oh, where is a good place to buy stoptech brakes and lines, and what kind of fluid do you recommend?
12-14-2002, 08:55 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 808
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Jergens
Okay well again. I ntend to use an aftermarket body kit, as for underbody diffuser... isn't that part of the front spoiler? And VDC is the same as BMW DSC... basically to keep moron drivers from sliding all ovre the place when they're being ********?
~Josh
Okay well again. I ntend to use an aftermarket body kit, as for underbody diffuser... isn't that part of the front spoiler? And VDC is the same as BMW DSC... basically to keep moron drivers from sliding all ovre the place when they're being ********?
~Josh
12-14-2002, 09:48 PM
#15
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Palm Beach
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, thank's for the flame. That really helped =P. Yes I know that it makes the car safer and that is great and sure maybe I am a moron cause I'm not interested in saftey options for a car that is probably going to be primarily a track car since I'm keeping my BMW, but anyhow.... thank you for being another person profoundly interested by making others look like morons.
12-15-2002, 08:15 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: <p align=
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
StopTech Suppliers etc
One question-- How does the 355mm F/R 4 wheel kit affect balance and stopping distance? Any guess?
Oh, where is a good place to buy stoptech brakes and lines, and what kind of fluid do you recommend?
jran76 we ran out of daylight on the 12-11 test day to complete the 355 4wheel tests, so we have not released the final 4 wheel set up. We can predict the final configuration (i.e. front piston sizes) based on some preliminary tests. I doubt the stopping distances will be significantly better with the 355 4wheel. The weight transfer off the rear limits the amount of work the rears can do; however, the 355 4 Wheel will peg the BLING-OH-METER. If you want that 996 TT to pull up along side of you and ogle your brakes get the 355 4w set up.
If you want to win your class in Autocross, or punish other marques in the club event, get the 332 front kit. Changing out rear lines and using a good race brake fluid like Motul 600 RBFwill also help. We stock Motul 600 RBF.
BTW we like this platform and look forward to seeing it at the track.
Coz at Concept Z is our first Stocking distributor for Nissan parts and he has his name on a batch of 350Z kits.
Bob Lee
StopTech LLC
Oh, where is a good place to buy stoptech brakes and lines, and what kind of fluid do you recommend?
jran76 we ran out of daylight on the 12-11 test day to complete the 355 4wheel tests, so we have not released the final 4 wheel set up. We can predict the final configuration (i.e. front piston sizes) based on some preliminary tests. I doubt the stopping distances will be significantly better with the 355 4wheel. The weight transfer off the rear limits the amount of work the rears can do; however, the 355 4 Wheel will peg the BLING-OH-METER. If you want that 996 TT to pull up along side of you and ogle your brakes get the 355 4w set up.
If you want to win your class in Autocross, or punish other marques in the club event, get the 332 front kit. Changing out rear lines and using a good race brake fluid like Motul 600 RBFwill also help. We stock Motul 600 RBF.
BTW we like this platform and look forward to seeing it at the track.
Coz at Concept Z is our first Stocking distributor for Nissan parts and he has his name on a batch of 350Z kits.
Bob Lee
StopTech LLC
12-15-2002, 11:03 AM
#17
Registered User
CanAmBob,
Thanks for your additional info. You've answered all my questions (even the one's I hadn't asked yet) and really helped make up my mind about the brakes I will eventually get.
Thanks again,
D'oh!
Thanks for your additional info. You've answered all my questions (even the one's I hadn't asked yet) and really helped make up my mind about the brakes I will eventually get.
Thanks again,
D'oh!
12-15-2002, 04:08 PM
#18
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Plano (Dallas), TX
Posts: 671
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: StopTech Suppliers etc
Originally posted by CanAmBob
One question-- How does the 355mm F/R 4 wheel kit affect balance and stopping distance? Any guess?
Oh, where is a good place to buy stoptech brakes and lines, and what kind of fluid do you recommend?
jran76 we ran out of daylight on the 12-11 test day to complete the 355 4wheel tests, so we have not released the final 4 wheel set up. We can predict the final configuration (i.e. front piston sizes) based on some preliminary tests. I doubt the stopping distances will be significantly better with the 355 4wheel. The weight transfer off the rear limits the amount of work the rears can do; however, the 355 4 Wheel will peg the BLING-OH-METER. If you want that 996 TT to pull up along side of you and ogle your brakes get the 355 4w set up.
If you want to win your class in Autocross, or punish other marques in the club event, get the 332 front kit. Changing out rear lines and using a good race brake fluid like Motul 600 RBFwill also help. We stock Motul 600 RBF.
BTW we like this platform and look forward to seeing it at the track.
Coz at Concept Z is our first Stocking distributor for Nissan parts and he has his name on a batch of 350Z kits.
Bob Lee
StopTech LLC
One question-- How does the 355mm F/R 4 wheel kit affect balance and stopping distance? Any guess?
Oh, where is a good place to buy stoptech brakes and lines, and what kind of fluid do you recommend?
jran76 we ran out of daylight on the 12-11 test day to complete the 355 4wheel tests, so we have not released the final 4 wheel set up. We can predict the final configuration (i.e. front piston sizes) based on some preliminary tests. I doubt the stopping distances will be significantly better with the 355 4wheel. The weight transfer off the rear limits the amount of work the rears can do; however, the 355 4 Wheel will peg the BLING-OH-METER. If you want that 996 TT to pull up along side of you and ogle your brakes get the 355 4w set up.
If you want to win your class in Autocross, or punish other marques in the club event, get the 332 front kit. Changing out rear lines and using a good race brake fluid like Motul 600 RBFwill also help. We stock Motul 600 RBF.
BTW we like this platform and look forward to seeing it at the track.
Coz at Concept Z is our first Stocking distributor for Nissan parts and he has his name on a batch of 350Z kits.
Bob Lee
StopTech LLC
Thanks again.... I think the 332 Front kit sounds like it is the way to go, I am interested in performance, although the 355x4 would have the WOW factor (very tempting). I used Motul and Axxis pads with steel lines on my Maxima with the stock brakes (x-drilled rotors), and I thought that made a BIG difference....
12-15-2002, 04:35 PM
#19
Registered User
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote
Wow, thank's for the flame. That really helped =P. Yes I know that it makes the car safer and that is great and sure maybe I am a moron cause I'm not interested in saftey options for a car that is probably going to be primarily a track car since I'm keeping my BMW, but anyhow.... thank you for being another person profoundly interested by making others look like morons
Lot of this on this site anymore jergens thats why I just read most of the time. You ask a question or make a comment and some *** just flames you.
Dan
Wow, thank's for the flame. That really helped =P. Yes I know that it makes the car safer and that is great and sure maybe I am a moron cause I'm not interested in saftey options for a car that is probably going to be primarily a track car since I'm keeping my BMW, but anyhow.... thank you for being another person profoundly interested by making others look like morons
Lot of this on this site anymore jergens thats why I just read most of the time. You ask a question or make a comment and some *** just flames you.
Dan
12-15-2002, 07:11 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see a flame in z461's response. He didn't call you any names, he correctly mentioned that the VDC can be useful for avoiding an accident in normal street driving. I think you're reading way too much into his response...