Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

speak for yourself

That is why god, IMHO, created machinists. They are the experts, they get to sit down and do the math

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Well said. And like Z1 says, that's why a good machinist is invaluable. And then a damn fine tuner to make it all work.
That's my biggest concern. Who has the skills to tune such an engine? I can't wait to see what Audible Mayhem does. Utec doesn't control cam phasing though, so another ECU would be better for pulling the max hp out of this car all motor. But then you run into which tuners have the skill to know just how much overlap to dial in and out with the CVTC system, who's going to advance the intake just right, the ignition timing to match the cam timing, and do it all without blowing an engine running 12:1 or more. That's a scary proposition for even the best tuners.
I've met some damn fine guys that work awesome numbers from engines, but they are almost always FI. Most of the time, a tuner can get to their goal on a FI engine without running so close to the ragged edge. With a NA monster, you have to run as close as possible to reach the pinnacle of what's possible. Turning up the boost and riching the fuel mixture to compensate is just not an option. Leaning any mixture out to get the most bang from an all motor job is where I think the real skill of a tuner is found. I'm sure this will **** off more than a few, so take it as my own opinion, but tuning for max NA power is harder and riskier than a FI engine.
That cam on your L28 is nuts, Z1. Side draft carbs? What's she idle at? Does it drop a firebomb out the exhaust on every shift?

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Schrick makes exact replacement cams for GT3 owners. I guess the lobes on the Porsche are prone to wear with lots of track time. They will not work on non-GT3 engines, according to Schrick. They also have replacement cams with more overlap and less lift that are supposedly a good option for longevity and similiar power, with a little more mid-range. I have not met or heard of any one running them. And agin, these are for the 996 GT3 making 380hp (Schrick says 390hp with their cams and a tune. RUF uses them I guess in their GT3) The 997 GT3 might use a different profile. but the cup cars all use the 300 duration cams with the 12mm of lift, so there's not a whole lot of seperation between the two, unless ramping angles are signifigantly more aggressive.
My comparison to the Porsche is primarily to show that all the exotic crap people think makes NA power is not needed. ITB's are not needed, Variable valve lift like VTEC or NEO VVL is not needed, exhaust valve timing adjustment is not needed. All of which would be nice, but just becuase it's not there doesn't mean the car will be a NA dog. The GT3 is just agood example of all this.
The basic supporting mods for big NA power are there for the VQ, just as they are designed into the GT3 from the factory. A good, high flowing manifold with short runners, variable valve timing on a good flowing head, cams and valvetrain designed for high rpm, and an engine configuration suitable for the stress are all there or available for the VQ. There's no evident reason a good tuner with the right parts and mods won't make the DE engine a great, high rpm, NA performer.
Will

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

side draft...hell no carbs are for weenies, or guys with Lotus Cortina's

full standalone (Electomotive), T66 turbo...built everything

Idles at 1000-1100 (still playing around with cam timing to stabilize it further)

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Top notch.
(T66?!?!? ...damn)

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

eh, its not big enough to be honest But going bigger means building a manifold, relocating the turbo, new downpipe....not in a rush as you would imagine, as its quite fast as it is

maximumsportZ

iTrader: (25)

Nice to see your finally a sponsor on here!!

laswyguy

iTrader: (1)

Titianium Rods, that costs $20,000g's to start. True dry sump too add.

nismology1

Well while they are the lightest around, Ti rods aren't necessary to make excellent n/a power. To me, as long as a rod is lighter yet stronger than stock, it's all good.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

it would take a 40 cylinder car to have $20k rods

They are expensive, but not THAT much

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Both of which can be done to the VQ, although not really needed. The dry-sump would be worth it, but any decent A-beam rods like those from Carrillo are already lighter than stock and strong enough for sustained high rpm use. And I don't recall Porsche using Ti rods in the GT3. At least it's not mentioned in their engine specs or their sales brochure which likes to point out damn near everything special on the car (Variocam, dry sump oil pumps in the head, dual chamber IM, etc.. ). You'd think they would mention Ti rods.
Will

laswyguy

iTrader: (1)

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...d.php?t=308279

this is where i got it from.

laswyguy

iTrader: (1)

2007 Porsche 911 GT3 997 Engine
This isn’t the same engine as the 3.6-liter in more pedestrian 911s (if you believe such things exist). The GT3 shares its dry-sump engine with Porsche’s production-based racing cars — the GT3 Cup and RSR — and the Turbo. Standard 911s use a two-piece engine block split down the center line of the crankcase. On the GT3 and Turbo, it’s a four-piece unit with crankcase parts cast separately, which are then bolted to the cylinder blocks. This is a stiffer arrangement, which can handle more power, and was originally developed for racing applications.

For the 2007 GT3, Porsche sticks with the same aluminum 3.6-liter flat-six but ups the power by 35 hp to 415 at 7600 rpm, making it the most powerful naturally aspirated 911 ever. That’s also the same output as the last-gen Turbo. And the redline rises by 200 rpm to a stunning 8400, up there with the best, just 100 rpm shy of the Ferrari F430’s redline. But the GT3 makes 115.3 hp per liter — more than the Ferrari and just about anything else. Torque is up 15 pound-feet to 299 at 5500 rpm.

These gains have come largely by lightening rotating components and making the engine breathe better. A new crankshaft design saves 1.3 pounds. Reshaped, forged pistons and 1-mm-smaller (in diameter) piston pins shave an ounce per cylinder. The titanium connecting rods also got thinner. The compression ratio is up to 12.0 from 11.7 in the previous GT3.

In the exhaust, the GT3 has new silencing flaps that, when open (above about 4000 rpm at load), reduce back pressure by eight percent compared with the old GT3. The entire exhaust system has thinner walls than before and weighs almost 20 fewer pounds.

Other updates include a slightly larger throttle body, to better feed the three-stage variable-intake manifold (the 996 GT3 had a two-stage unit), and a wider operating range for the variable intake-valve timing. It can now adjust over 52 degrees, versus 45 degrees previously.

DET_Monster

care to speculate more on the setup??

cant wait to see how it goes.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Good to know. 52 degrees on the variable intake, that's impressive. You think they would brag on the Ti rods a little more, but it's that intake cam phasing that's impressive. Other than that, there's nothing on the GT3 that can't be done with the VQ.
I am curious to see what IM options continue to develop. That and the influx of new stand alone EMS for the VQ.
Will

nismology1

Nismo 55* VTC phasers.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Exactly. I think I mentioned the Nismo CVTCC earlier, but in any case, I was referring to Ti rods, not a major issue, but the lighter reciprocating assembly is obviously part of Porsche's equation for the power jump to 415hp. I don't think that can be duplicated on the VQ that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are Ti rods available. The lighter Carrillo rods are obviously of benefit, but I don't think the reciprocating assembly on the VQ will be as light as what Porsche has put into the GT3.
But 52 degrees on a production engine is amazing. I know that Nissan, along with others, uses Variable timing for emmissions reasons as well as to broaden the power band. The reason why most new engines don't have an EGR anymore is due to the CVTC. But 52 degrees on a production engine is awesome, I would assume they use all of it or else why extend it to 52 from 45. Makes me wonder with all the overlap that must be present how they keep it emmissions legal. That's the type of tuning an OEM with the time and money can do that I don't think will be duplicated in the aftermarket.
Will

laswyguy

iTrader: (1)

http://www.jdm-option.com/eng/featur...2/z33_v35.html

Not sure if this is a repost, but this is sick! Click on the various cars and setups..

o snap its eric

iTrader: (5)

nice link there. Looks like all the high HP guys were using the nismo high compression heads.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

That link is kinda old, but always worth going back over. Thanks for posting it. 350whp on one of those cars, that's 410 at the crank with 15% loss. 328whp on the G35 coupe. Gives some hope on the future of NA VQ power.
Will