Steel brake lines and front bumper
01-12-2003, 08:00 AM
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Steel brake lines and front bumper
Hey guys,
Here's my situation: First of all, this is my first sport's car and I want to do everything as right as possible. I have gotten SO3's put on because is seems that the stock tires are poor choices for this car as per this board.
I have been reading alot from the internet about how do drive a high performance vehicle correctly and what are good mods. But the most important thing I have learned is that the single best thing you can do is to take a HPDE (High Performance Driving Education Course) and learn how to drive you vehicle. This is what I will be doing at Thunderhill Park hopefully later this week.
What I would like to know is if changing to steel brake lines is a good idea at this point of my education or if I should wait awhile. I figure that since steel brake lines offer consistency in brake feel whether in cold or hot (as opposed to the rubber stock lines which expand in the heat), that it would be easier to learn with the steel brake lines. Furthermore, the last longer and supposedly can improve stopping distance.
Finally, a little unrelated, but what is the front bumper made out of? Is is plastic or what? I plan to install the Escort SR7 and they need to know whether it's plastic or what.
Thanks!
PS BTW Any good books/internet sites that you could refer me to that I can read and learn more about driving correctly, good mods to do, and overall learning the mechanics of the car in simple language.
Here's my situation: First of all, this is my first sport's car and I want to do everything as right as possible. I have gotten SO3's put on because is seems that the stock tires are poor choices for this car as per this board.
I have been reading alot from the internet about how do drive a high performance vehicle correctly and what are good mods. But the most important thing I have learned is that the single best thing you can do is to take a HPDE (High Performance Driving Education Course) and learn how to drive you vehicle. This is what I will be doing at Thunderhill Park hopefully later this week.
What I would like to know is if changing to steel brake lines is a good idea at this point of my education or if I should wait awhile. I figure that since steel brake lines offer consistency in brake feel whether in cold or hot (as opposed to the rubber stock lines which expand in the heat), that it would be easier to learn with the steel brake lines. Furthermore, the last longer and supposedly can improve stopping distance.
Finally, a little unrelated, but what is the front bumper made out of? Is is plastic or what? I plan to install the Escort SR7 and they need to know whether it's plastic or what.
Thanks!
PS BTW Any good books/internet sites that you could refer me to that I can read and learn more about driving correctly, good mods to do, and overall learning the mechanics of the car in simple language.
01-12-2003, 08:34 AM
#2
Re: Steel brake lines and front bumper
Originally posted by uro279
Finally, a little unrelated, but what is the front bumper made out of? Is is plastic or what? I plan to install the Escort SR7 and they need to know whether it's plastic or what.
Finally, a little unrelated, but what is the front bumper made out of? Is is plastic or what? I plan to install the Escort SR7 and they need to know whether it's plastic or what.
oil."
01-12-2003, 08:36 AM
#3
Re: Steel brake lines and front bumper
Originally posted by uro279
What I would like to know is if changing to steel brake lines is a good idea at this point of my education or if I should wait awhile. I figure that since steel brake lines offer consistency in brake feel whether in cold or hot (as opposed to the rubber stock lines which expand in the heat), that it would be easier to learn with the steel brake lines. Furthermore, the last longer and supposedly can improve stopping distance.
What I would like to know is if changing to steel brake lines is a good idea at this point of my education or if I should wait awhile. I figure that since steel brake lines offer consistency in brake feel whether in cold or hot (as opposed to the rubber stock lines which expand in the heat), that it would be easier to learn with the steel brake lines. Furthermore, the last longer and supposedly can improve stopping distance.
01-12-2003, 09:01 AM
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Re: Steel brake lines and front bumper
Originally posted by uro279
Hey guys,
I have learned is that the single best thing you can do is to take a HPDE (High Performance Driving Education Course) and learn how to drive you vehicle.
--- this is the best modification to ANY car. I am a long-time supporter of driving schools and track-day events. I work with an organization here in Texas called The Driver's Edge (www.thedriversedge.net). I encourage everyone to learn how to drive their car in this manner... makes them a better, safer driver on the road.
What I would like to know is if changing to steel brake lines is a good idea at this point of my education or if I should wait awhile. I figure that since steel brake lines offer consistency in brake feel whether in cold or hot (as opposed to the rubber stock lines which expand in the heat), that it would be easier to learn with the steel brake lines. Furthermore, the last longer and supposedly can improve stopping distance.
--- Not a good idea. SS lines don't really make a noticable difference in the performance of the brakes. Here's my thoughts on SS lines:
1) novice drivers will never be able to tell the difference in pedal feel between stock and SS lines, they don't make it "easier to learn"
2) they don't make a difference in consistency. Better fluid and pads that can handle high temps will offer more consistency.
3) They actually don't last very long... they should be replaced once a year. SS lines are actually the same lines you have now, wrapped in a SS braided jacket. There is no way to tell if there is some bit of debris inside that jacket rubbing a hole into the rubber line. When they fail, it's often catastrophic brake system failure. Some are coated in a silicone or teflon sleeve, these are marginally better.
PS BTW Any good books/internet sites that you could refer me to that I can read and learn more about driving correctly, good mods to do, and overall learning the mechanics of the car in simple language.
--- One of the better books I have read on the subject is "Drive to Win: The Essential Guide to Race Driving" by Carroll Smith. Easy to read, good diagrams, very informative. I think I found my copy at Amazon.com.
Hope that helps. You are headed in the right direction! Have fun, keep the shiny side up, enjoy the car.
PeteH
Hey guys,
I have learned is that the single best thing you can do is to take a HPDE (High Performance Driving Education Course) and learn how to drive you vehicle.
--- this is the best modification to ANY car. I am a long-time supporter of driving schools and track-day events. I work with an organization here in Texas called The Driver's Edge (www.thedriversedge.net). I encourage everyone to learn how to drive their car in this manner... makes them a better, safer driver on the road.
What I would like to know is if changing to steel brake lines is a good idea at this point of my education or if I should wait awhile. I figure that since steel brake lines offer consistency in brake feel whether in cold or hot (as opposed to the rubber stock lines which expand in the heat), that it would be easier to learn with the steel brake lines. Furthermore, the last longer and supposedly can improve stopping distance.
--- Not a good idea. SS lines don't really make a noticable difference in the performance of the brakes. Here's my thoughts on SS lines:
1) novice drivers will never be able to tell the difference in pedal feel between stock and SS lines, they don't make it "easier to learn"
2) they don't make a difference in consistency. Better fluid and pads that can handle high temps will offer more consistency.
3) They actually don't last very long... they should be replaced once a year. SS lines are actually the same lines you have now, wrapped in a SS braided jacket. There is no way to tell if there is some bit of debris inside that jacket rubbing a hole into the rubber line. When they fail, it's often catastrophic brake system failure. Some are coated in a silicone or teflon sleeve, these are marginally better.
PS BTW Any good books/internet sites that you could refer me to that I can read and learn more about driving correctly, good mods to do, and overall learning the mechanics of the car in simple language.
--- One of the better books I have read on the subject is "Drive to Win: The Essential Guide to Race Driving" by Carroll Smith. Easy to read, good diagrams, very informative. I think I found my copy at Amazon.com.
Hope that helps. You are headed in the right direction! Have fun, keep the shiny side up, enjoy the car.
PeteH
01-12-2003, 10:12 AM
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I just ordered SS stoptechs from Street Sports and Motul 600. Check the Brake fluid post on the Racing forum for a good discussion. At the end is a link to an rx7 and nsx board that raises some concerns w/ ss lines. I agree with you about brakes and education. I'm going to VIR and want to give my brakes any advantages. I got my lines and 3 x 500ml of Motul for ~$200. Pretty cheap insurance if you ask me.
01-12-2003, 10:20 AM
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Thanks for responding!
Originally posted by mcclaskz
I just ordered SS stoptechs from Street Sports and Motul 600. Check the Brake fluid post on the Racing forum for a good discussion. At the end is a link to an rx7 and nsx board that raises some concerns w/ ss lines. I agree with you about brakes and education. I'm going to VIR and want to give my brakes any advantages. I got my lines and 3 x 500ml of Motul for ~$200. Pretty cheap insurance if you ask me.
I just ordered SS stoptechs from Street Sports and Motul 600. Check the Brake fluid post on the Racing forum for a good discussion. At the end is a link to an rx7 and nsx board that raises some concerns w/ ss lines. I agree with you about brakes and education. I'm going to VIR and want to give my brakes any advantages. I got my lines and 3 x 500ml of Motul for ~$200. Pretty cheap insurance if you ask me.
Thanks again.
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01-12-2003, 10:44 AM
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Sorry, VIR is Virginia International Raceway, a very nice regional road course. They usually have ferrari challenge, PCA, BMW, SCCA events. This year they have a 400km Grand Am race I think in September. I hope Downshift will be racing his 350 in that. Check out www.virclub.com
Motul 600 is a racing brake fluid. Very high wet and dry boiling points. I think dry is 585 degrees and wet is ~450 degrees. Significantly higher than DOT 3 & 4 fluids. It will be my first time using the stuff but I have heard guys here and on other sports car boards swear by the stuff. Price is usually ~$12.
Motul 600 is a racing brake fluid. Very high wet and dry boiling points. I think dry is 585 degrees and wet is ~450 degrees. Significantly higher than DOT 3 & 4 fluids. It will be my first time using the stuff but I have heard guys here and on other sports car boards swear by the stuff. Price is usually ~$12.
01-12-2003, 10:49 AM
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I read the discussion
on SS brake lines-I probably won't purchase it for now. I need to learn more. Very informative discussion! BTW, why did you decide to purchase it?
Also, will the motul600 void the warranty? I thought that someone posted that the manual says don't use synthetic brake fluid? Also, does it matter if we use DOT3 or DOT4? I know that someone stated that DOT4 meets higher standards, but I'm still unclear.
Thanks again.
Also, will the motul600 void the warranty? I thought that someone posted that the manual says don't use synthetic brake fluid? Also, does it matter if we use DOT3 or DOT4? I know that someone stated that DOT4 meets higher standards, but I'm still unclear.
Thanks again.
01-12-2003, 12:42 PM
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I got mine to give the brakes better performance. The stoptechs are DOT approved, and I think are coated on the outside.(I don't have them yet, but I asked the guys at Street Sports before I bought them) The discussion is good, but I came away from it thinking that some SS lines like anything have drawbacks. I don't plan on racing my Z, it is my weekend car and I will attend some autox and track days, but only totalling less than 6k miles per year. I'm not too worried about high miles or high stress do to pushing it to the limit. Motul should not void the warraty. I emailed mammoth motorsports re: motul and this is what they said, "The Motul 600 brake fluid is compatible with any SAE J1703 DOT 3 and 4 brake
fluids. Also make sure to bleed your brake regularly for optimum
performance." I have asked all the questions I know to ask, and have gone this route. The manual says to use nissan approved DOT 3 fluid. I feel this is the same cop-out as the motor oil issue. DOT 4 does have higher max temps, but not as high as motul or some other high temp fluids. I only went with it b/c of the discussion here and the guys in my Z club that track all use it.
fluids. Also make sure to bleed your brake regularly for optimum
performance." I have asked all the questions I know to ask, and have gone this route. The manual says to use nissan approved DOT 3 fluid. I feel this is the same cop-out as the motor oil issue. DOT 4 does have higher max temps, but not as high as motul or some other high temp fluids. I only went with it b/c of the discussion here and the guys in my Z club that track all use it.
01-12-2003, 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by mcclaskz
I got mine to give the brakes better performance. The stoptechs are DOT approved, and I think are coated on the outside.(I don't have them yet, but I asked the guys at Street Sports before I bought them) The discussion is good, but I came away from it thinking that some SS lines like anything have drawbacks. I don't plan on racing my Z, it is my weekend car and I will attend some autox and track days, but only totalling less than 6k miles per year. I'm not too worried about high miles or high stress do to pushing it to the limit. Motul should not void the warraty. I emailed mammoth motorsports re: motul and this is what they said, "The Motul 600 brake fluid is compatible with any SAE J1703 DOT 3 and 4 brake
fluids. Also make sure to bleed your brake regularly for optimum
performance." I have asked all the questions I know to ask, and have gone this route. The manual says to use nissan approved DOT 3 fluid. I feel this is the same cop-out as the motor oil issue. DOT 4 does have higher max temps, but not as high as motul or some other high temp fluids. I only went with it b/c of the discussion here and the guys in my Z club that track all use it.
I got mine to give the brakes better performance. The stoptechs are DOT approved, and I think are coated on the outside.(I don't have them yet, but I asked the guys at Street Sports before I bought them) The discussion is good, but I came away from it thinking that some SS lines like anything have drawbacks. I don't plan on racing my Z, it is my weekend car and I will attend some autox and track days, but only totalling less than 6k miles per year. I'm not too worried about high miles or high stress do to pushing it to the limit. Motul should not void the warraty. I emailed mammoth motorsports re: motul and this is what they said, "The Motul 600 brake fluid is compatible with any SAE J1703 DOT 3 and 4 brake
fluids. Also make sure to bleed your brake regularly for optimum
performance." I have asked all the questions I know to ask, and have gone this route. The manual says to use nissan approved DOT 3 fluid. I feel this is the same cop-out as the motor oil issue. DOT 4 does have higher max temps, but not as high as motul or some other high temp fluids. I only went with it b/c of the discussion here and the guys in my Z club that track all use it.
Thanks.
PS Where can I get motul600? Also, what brake pads are you going with?
01-12-2003, 06:45 PM
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Re: PeteH
Originally posted by uro279
Thanks for responding!
What pads and fluids do you recommend?
Thanks for responding!
What pads and fluids do you recommend?
I have used Porterfield R4 at the track and R4-S on the street and I have liked them both. See them at http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/
I also like Mintex Red Box for the street and C-Tech for the track. Not sure where to get them for the Z. I used them extensively in both of my Audis.In my Stoptechs, I used the Stoptech Club Race pad (essentially a Poerterfield R4, since Porterfield makes the pads for Stoptech).
As for fluid.... I used the expensive Motul 600 and ATE Superblue. But, I found that Valvoline SynPower is just as good and about 1/3 the cost of the others. Plus, the SynPower is available at Pep Boys, Autozone and O'Reillys.
The first one or two times you go to the track, you probably won't get your brakes so hot the stock fluid will boil. Your stock setup will be fine. But, after that, I'd recommend the SynPower fluid.
What I tell people who want to make changes to their car when they come out to the driving events is: do at least one weekend with the car totally stock. Then, do another weekend once you know how to handle the car at the track... using the second weekend to sort out the car end decide what shortcomings you think you may want to address.
If the understeer is a problem, change the swaybars. If the brakes are an issue, go with better pads and fluid... you get the idea. Make one change at a time, maybe two if the budget allows, then go back to the track to see how much better the car handles.
Does not make sense to make a whole lot of changes to the car if you don't know what needs to be changed.
Hope that helps.
PeteH
01-12-2003, 07:30 PM
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Re: Steel brake lines and front bumper
Originally posted by uro279
Hey guys,
Here's my situation: First of all, this is my first sport's car and I want to do everything as right as possible. I have gotten SO3's put on because is seems that the stock tires are poor choices for this car as per this board.
I have been reading alot from the internet about how do drive a high performance vehicle correctly and what are good mods. But the most important thing I have learned is that the single best thing you can do is to take a HPDE (High Performance Driving Education Course) and learn how to drive you vehicle. This is what I will be doing at Thunderhill Park hopefully later this week.
What I would like to know is if changing to steel brake lines is a good idea at this point of my education or if I should wait awhile. I figure that since steel brake lines offer consistency in brake feel whether in cold or hot (as opposed to the rubber stock lines which expand in the heat), that it would be easier to learn with the steel brake lines. Furthermore, the last longer and supposedly can improve stopping distance.
Finally, a little unrelated, but what is the front bumper made out of? Is is plastic or what? I plan to install the Escort SR7 and they need to know whether it's plastic or what.
Thanks!
PS BTW Any good books/internet sites that you could refer me to that I can read and learn more about driving correctly, good mods to do, and overall learning the mechanics of the car in simple language.
Hey guys,
Here's my situation: First of all, this is my first sport's car and I want to do everything as right as possible. I have gotten SO3's put on because is seems that the stock tires are poor choices for this car as per this board.
I have been reading alot from the internet about how do drive a high performance vehicle correctly and what are good mods. But the most important thing I have learned is that the single best thing you can do is to take a HPDE (High Performance Driving Education Course) and learn how to drive you vehicle. This is what I will be doing at Thunderhill Park hopefully later this week.
What I would like to know is if changing to steel brake lines is a good idea at this point of my education or if I should wait awhile. I figure that since steel brake lines offer consistency in brake feel whether in cold or hot (as opposed to the rubber stock lines which expand in the heat), that it would be easier to learn with the steel brake lines. Furthermore, the last longer and supposedly can improve stopping distance.
Finally, a little unrelated, but what is the front bumper made out of? Is is plastic or what? I plan to install the Escort SR7 and they need to know whether it's plastic or what.
Thanks!
PS BTW Any good books/internet sites that you could refer me to that I can read and learn more about driving correctly, good mods to do, and overall learning the mechanics of the car in simple language.
You are already making the best mod you can make to any car. You are upgrading the nut behind the wheel!! It amazes me how many people here discuss the the most minute degree everything about suspension, brakes, wheels, tires blah blah blah yet they won't spend $1 on making themselves a better driver. I used to love going to the track in my 138hp MRS and smoking cars that you wouldn't even believe if I told you.
Couple of tips for your track day: don't worry about your speed, concentrate on driving the line, picking out your braking points and being consistant. Speed will come later. Have fun!!
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