DavidD

Has anyone installed a Tornado fuel saver in their 350Z yet?
And does it work?

http://www.tornadofuelsaver.com/

AndyB

Avoid eye contact, slowly close your wallet, then RUN AWAY.

The Tornado is a scam. It has been tested in the f-body group, in the Dakota group, and in the Durango group. (and I am sure elsewhere) and it just doesn't work.

Now, it is POSSIBLE that it helps some car somewhere that has a design problem with the intake, but the Z has a pretty straight air intake stock.

My opinion is save your money.

ares

iTrader: (2)

AWESOME, Im always trying to find some metallic object to put into my intake cause swirling air give extra hp(oh wait, no it doesnt) and even better, swirling air will still be swirling after it makes the turn into the manifold(wait, no thats not right either)

save you money, its a huge scam. cant believe people actually believe that thing, ever heard the saying, if its too good to be true it probably is? yeah, its ussually right.

N74DV

the thing that gets me is if the air swirls/twists as it makes it's way through the intake it is travelling a further distance than if it just went straight.

it doesn't takea hydrodynamics engineer to figure that the longer the distace a fluid has to travel in a tube the more restriction is sees.

what a scam

Driven

Not to defend what is likely a real world piece of junk...but guys why don't you do a little test of your own and see if the logic doesn't play through. Take two 2ltr. pop bottles and fill them both nearly full with water. Now take them both and turn them upside down...leave one of them alone, and take the other and "swirl" it. Which one emptied faster? Wow....the one where the water taveled "further" emptied much faster didn't it? That's because of the vortex which is created allowing for a smooth flow out of the constricted bottleneck! I've never seen any conclusive proof of it's performanc improvements, but it does hold some theoretical weight anyway. On another related note, however, there is a similar product on the market which I believe does something similar and did get some positive independent writeups. I think it is called "Vortec" or something close. It works on the same premise, but installs immediately above the throttle body and is make of about 1" of aluminum. That's about all I recall.

DMONTE

I believe the reason why the water goes from the top bottle to the bottom much faster is because of the vortex causing a faster passage of air through the center of the vortex from top bottle to bottom so the water could whip write-down to the bottom bottle. Otherwise the water gets hung up burping the air through

DMonte

ares

iTrader: (2)

yes, in the bottle scenerio, both sides are at a fixed pressure, its a 2 way street there, by swirling, you are pushing the water to the sides and air is passing through the center, essentially creating a channel for the air to pass through.

but in the car example its far different, for one, the engine is sucking air in. nothing is leaving, so you lose that part, if exhaust and air came in the same tube, maybe, but it doesnt.

also in the bottle scenario, theres no huge obstruction. I bet if there was, the "swirling" effect from that would be slower then straight flow since the thing is stopping the flow.

DavidD

Thanks for the info.

I am new to the group.

I have Silverstone Track with burnt orange leather and all the options. Love the brakes.

Intrepid

Fluid dynamics and gas dynamics are not the same!

Driven

Again...not supporting the product...and preempting this by stating I do not have a PhD in physics, but it is my understanding that oxygen molecules will act very similarly to H2O molecules when it comes to traveling through a restricted opening.

And I don't think anyone was talking about "gas dynamics" were they? I think a closer comparison we were making is air flow as it compares to your toilet flushing. Anyway, I don't really care...until someone can show me uncontested proof that these products work I'm not buying...but it was a fun conversation.

Later.

D'oh

"gas" IS a "fluid" BTW.

gas and liquid may behave differently in certain cituations because one is compressible and one isn't, but you can design experiments to simulate similar flow throgh a gas and a liquid if you take into accound their reynold's numbers. Fluid dynamics covers a wide range of situations, from airflow around cars and planes, to pneumatic and hydraulic systems, to the design of turbo and water and oil pumps as well as jet engines. In fact, traffic congestion can be modelled by fluid dynamics as well. The specific parameters may be different, but the general theory is the same.

-D'oh!

ATL350Z

iTrader: (2)

Maybe, but your bottle analogy is flawed in that it is more an experiment of fluid displacement than straight fluid flow. Your bottle actually has fluid flow in both directions. Try that experiment with a huge whole in the bottom of the bottle so that air can enter freely.

N1k0

Tornado claims that thier product can increase fuel efficiency and performance by creatining "turbulance" in the air.

Specifically they claim to create a swirling "fast burn effect".
Tornado Testing

I cant find any substantiating evidence supporting, or any condition describred as a "fast burn effect."

Now onto a bit of high school science.

Tornado claims that airflow of increased turbulance delivers more air to the engine, allowing for an increase in HP and a decrease in fuel consumption. This claim runs contrary to current observations on fluid dynamics.

Contrary to an earlier post, airflow is a liquid dynamic. It obeys the same laws, and uses the same math in this application as does water.

At fast velocities, the inertia of the air overcomes fluid frictional forces and turbulent flow results. When air is flowing this way it flows in eddies and whorls (vortices). When air flows turbulently, there is much more drag than when the flow is laminar. Normally laminar flow is only achieved at low velocities. Laminar flow describes a non chaotic (non turbulant) movement of air. Laminar flow can normally only occur when air is at a constant velocity flowing in a straight line.

This is not the condition found in our airboxes. Even if air entered the car in a laminar fasion, the airbox introduces its own restrictions, resulting in chaotic flow.

Any device which does not actively move the airflow to a more laminar state only causes increased drag, and less airflow.

Since this device does nothing to increase the most efficient model of airflow, which would be laminar, it most likely cannot achieve its gains through airflow alone. Since it is a passive device, it is unlikely you would recieve a benefeit from thsi device. Worst still if it trully does cause the air to become more turbulant minor decreases in airflow should occur.

Driven

Yeah! What he said!

AndyB

The most likely outcome of swirling the air would be to slow it down and create eddies.

In fact, the tornado goes in the primary air tube creating one large swirl. What _EXACTLY_ do the makers say happens with that "tornado" hits the 6 seperate runners of the intake manifold?

(insert defening silence here).

I bet their car wax can protect from a laser beam to.

8*)

Track

Air is a fluid.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

how did you get the leather on your TRACK version



....

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

Depends on what type of wax you use. heheh.

a nice wax of mirrors deflected upwards . might..

tim_n/a

why don't you do a experiment yourself. Find a water bottle or anything made of PVC ......

Well, I did this, I made myself a Tonado like device out of PVC plastic and stick it in my truck. (no way I am going test that on my Z) and drive. Well, it does change the behavior of the engine. At first, I found gas pedal become enlighten. I can easily cruise at lower rpm like 1800rpm. Then again I found it's harder to climb over 4500rpm. It's a mix bag result like most of things in life.

Now you can decide where you want your engine to perform the best. Lower or higher band? I decided to leave my device in my truck since I seldom find myself go over 3500rpm in that thing anyway. And it does save some gas on my truck and that means a lot for my 4700lb wheels.

ares

iTrader: (2)

right... sorry but it is all in your head. we've already said that the air swirling would not continue to swirl around the first bend, and it certainly would do nothing when it hits the manifold. untill I see dyno proof its bogus, end up story.

you want to simulate it? heres what you do. go get a vacumm. shove a tornado device in it(a propellor basicly) and turn it on, there ya go. not you let me know if the vacumm is straining more with this large obstruction in the tube, or free flow? thanks for playin.