mark_wilkins

No, I was inferring that you'd overestimated your own skill from your attitude, not from your having or not having some feature on your car.

Safer drivers, even highly skilled ones, recognize that their skill ends at a certain point and do whatever they can to give themselves the greatest possible safety margin consistent with what they're doing with the vehicle.

We all know that ABS, traction control, stability control systems, and so on interfere with one's ability to get the best possible time on the track, but when that's not the priority (as it's almost always not for someone using a car as their daily driver) it's worth paying a little extra money for a feature that provides a substantial extra safety margin, regardless of the driver's level of skill.

-- Mark

TereP

Despite my advancing age, I've still got reasonably good hand-eye coordination and motor skills. Comes from years of experience with high-powered rear-wheel drive vehicles (only driven one front-wheel drive vehicle and hated it), motorcycles (street and dirt -- never dumped my street bike despite some of the crazy things I did at 135-140mph), and highly maneuverable supersonic jet aircraft (I only mention this to establish that I'm not your average granny who drives at 35mph all day -- I still enjoy the rush of pushing the envelope). I just like the distinct advantage that VDC gives me performance-wise under certain road conditions -- I can get away with doing things in this car that I couldn't get away with in non-VDC equipped cars.

The end result is using technology to your advantage, be it VDC or a retuned ECU (ECUs were scoffed at as well in the days of the by-ear tuners -- as in '60s muscle cars with no ECU), etc. There are certain things a computer can do far better than a human -- it's not meant to replace the human skills, just allow the human to perform even better. I remember the same argument when the fly-by-wire F-16 was introduced, and now the pilots love it because the computer gives them a performance advantage -- it doesn't replace human skills, but augments them. As we work through the initial "machismo" issue, my prediction is that we'll eventually find more and more folks finding VDC as a valuable tool (much like the case of the F-16), particularly as the technology matures.

qirex

Cars and bikes are two totally different animals. I ride a 00' hayabusa. I love riding, dragging knee etc. just like the other guys.

However when it comes to cars, most of my experience has been with FWD vehicles. I autoXed my 97 prelude tons of times, have taken skip barbers course and thought I was a pretty good driver - until I turned off VDC and found myself pointing the wrong way in traffic.

VDC is a great set of training wheels for those of us without RWD experience. It definitely saved my *** dozens of times already - espec with this brutal winter we had in the east.

Now in terms of handling, a brutish approach to driving will be met with and equally intrusive slap on the wrist by VDC. However, i've learned to drive "WITH" VDC where it actually helps you drive safer and faster. You may call this "driving like a *****" - but the same thing exists in the world of pro auto racing. They've had similar systems in place in F1 for years - and even things like clutchless manual trannies. These things are faster and safer b/c it allows the driver to spend more focus on the task at hand - that it - going faster.

It's interesting that no suitable analogy exists between race cars and bikes. Yes race bikes are high tech - but only in a lighter, more powerful vein. I wonder if we'll ever see handling aids and the like pop up w/ race bikes.

Either way, yeah - VDC is well worth it. Hey RC51man, do you wear full leathers when you go for a spirited ride? or do the squidly tank/shorts/flip-flops? What you dont mind a little road rash??? Driving/riding fast is fun - but the bottom line is getting that visceral rush while still maintaining an element of safety right?

jeffrey

If I have an AMA license and do AMA club races, I think (considering you are grown up enough and intelligent enough to afford a Z) you can figure that one out for yourself.

qirex

so then tell me smarty?

why are you dissing a safety feature (VDC) such as VDC? Whats the diiff btw VDC and a roll cage, or fire extinguisher?

Thats all for me - your attitude is really poor. Enjoy your life.

jeffrey

All I said was I think it's a waste of money in a sports car.

If you want a car that's going to save your *** every time you get in trouble and drive it for you, buy a Volvo next time. Don't waste your money on a RWD sports car.

ihatethatbobbarker

in his defense
a roll cage in your car doesnt ruin the spirit of the drive, it doesnt save you till youve already ****ed up
VDC keeps you from it

PrototypeRacer

I can see the pros and cons for having VDC, but why are some of you using the excuse that you need it because you might not always be concentrating on your driving while going to work, ect...
Everyones talking about safety, but how safe is it to push your car beyond your limits under these conditions? Get the option for better judgement before VDC.

jeffrey

My point exactly.

Oh how easily things are misconstrued on the net. ;P

It just annoys me when people buy cars that are far beyond their driving ability and use car-controlling systems to make up for their lack of skill then claim that it's just not safe to drive without them.

I mean really... think about it for a minute. If VDC is that crucial to you safely operating your car, maybe you shouldn't be driving it at all... ?

This is the first RWD car (and lowsest HP incidentily) I've owned with any sort of car-control systems (not including ABS). I've never gotten myself in trouble that I couldn't get out of. I know my limits and am a solid, capable driver.

I guess more people need to probe that question personally before they purchase.

mark_wilkins

It's not about failing to pay attention while using the car as a daily driver, at least not for me -- instead it's about maintaining control of the car during sudden, panic reactions to unexpected things like (and this has happened to me before) the car in front of me trying to change lanes at speed and suddenly spinning out, or a couch falling out of a truck in front of me.

Note that these kinds of sudden, panic situations are the kinds of things that cause even highly experienced, professional drivers to crash their cars on a track. Fortunately, since maximum speed is not my top priority, I can have VDC to help me out.

-- Mark

ihatethatbobbarker

maybe you shouldnt panic
i crashed my old car because the brakes locked and i could not steer the car, once i knew i couldnt save it i just relaxed so i wouldnt be hurt as much by the impact, because thats why drunk drivers are never hurt in accidents, they are relaxed
fireman said it was the smartest thing someone could have done in that situation

mark_wilkins

Pardon me but I'd rather save the car than be relaxed and crash...

-- Mark

ihatethatbobbarker

why do people always change my words when they argue with me
is that all you can do
i had already lost control of my car due to a flaw in the breaks
my abs failed and some other problem
i hit the curb seperating the oncoming lane from mine and the car began to spin
i knew i couldnt avoid so i just did the best thing i could.
driving is all about quickly assesing the situation and doing whats best
your probably the type who would freek out in the situations you listed and start swerving around on the freeway like jack *** and make it worse.

mark_wilkins

Sorry, I wasn't referring to your accident. I was referring to your reference to drunk drivers being relaxed behind the wheel and thus less severely injured in certain crashes.

BTW, no reason to make this personal. I haven't called you a jackass, so why call me one or accuse me of being a bad driver just because I like having a little extra margin of safety?

Incidentally, when the car spun out in front of me I didn't really have enough time to react, as I should not have been following so closely -- fortunately he managed to drift to the right so that I missed him while I continued in my lane.

Actually, fortunately for him, ALL the other cars around me missed him as well. Pure luck, as traffic was somewhat heavy. He ended up facing the wrong way on the right hand side of the road.

-- Mark

Blades

I hate the vdc on the g35. It gets turned off all the time yet still kicks in. Do you know where i can turn EVERYTHING off on this damn car? heh. Dont get it man.. it neuters the car if its anything like the system in the G.

ihatethatbobbarker

find the fuse?