Give us all a clue as to your cure for the common car... Multiple choices allowed!

Here's my estimates for cost, reward and ease of install (1=Easy, 6=Hard work):

Turbo $6,000 (incl. ECU) 110HP (high-end) 5
Supercharger $6,000 (incl. ECU) 80HP (mid range) 4
ECU only $595 10HP 1
CAT Back&Headers $1200 15-20HP 3
Pulleys $500 7HP 3
CAI $400 7HP 2
CAMS* $1000-$2000 10HP - 40HP 4-6

* Note: CAMS are a wonderful way to extract power at the top-end. The CAMS that produce more than 15HP typically effect idle, emissions and can be expensive to install. I left them off the Poll figuring most people would not want to go there unless they plan to race their Z. Tell me if I'm wrong...

If Nissan doesn't hit the magic 300HP number, we can certainly get there ourselves by combining one or more of the above options. However, don't shoot me as these are my best guesses based upon other cars. It all depends on whether Nissan leaves any bottlenecks on the table that we can exploit, like restrictive exhausts. Nismo will probably provide the biggest clues for the rest of the aftermarket as they plan to race the Z in the ALMS and the new G35 coupe in Japan.

 

I would consider all of those things and then some.

 

I've never modded a car before. How much would an ECU chip cost for the Z?

 

ECU's often cost around $500-$600. Time will only tell if (a) respected companies like JWT or Autothority Performance can crack the code and (b) there are significant gains to be realized (at least 10HP).

Generally, car manufacturers have to turn out a ECU program that includes a fuel map that will accommodate varing levels of fuel quality around the world. There's also that pesky owner who insisits on using 89 octane. An aftermarket chip can often "lean out" the fuel to air mixture and advance the timing for better torque, HP and throttle response. This of course assumes the owner only uses the highest octane available (93 on the East coast - sorry CA). Anyone contemplating a supercharger or Turbo will need to upgrade their ECU, or at least add a device that fools the ECU. Cars with factory turbos like the 1.8T Audi/VW engine have the most to gain from ECU upgrades. Of course at the expense of longevity. Hope this info. helps.


BTW: People shouldn't overlook Lightweight pulleys. I gained 6HP (at 6800rpm) on my 140HP 2.0 Nissan SR20 engine. Here's a quote regarding moding the Ford SHO 3.2L V6

"Our design replaces factory Power Steering, Water Pump and Alternator Pulleys with 15% larger ones. As a result there is a 5-6 HP gain from reduction in power required to turn accessories and an increase in accessories life-span due to lower speed. The UD pulleys have no negative effect on accessories operation and come with new belts."

More can be gained by switching out the crank pulley and I guess the A/C pulley.

 

i'll prolly get a chip if it doesnt void the warranty. nissan will prolly install all the nismo parts (not include FI) w/o voiding them warranty.

 

Thanks. That was very informative.

 

I suspect your power estemates for both the turbo and supercharger are low. Check out www.miataforum.com and their power mods section, here:

http://www.miataforum.com/cgi-bin/ul...f=1&DaysPrune=

Do a search on turbo or super charger. The miata only has a 1.8 liter 4 banger that puts out around 140 hp at the crank, so a lot of people are adding turbos. They are seeing 100hp+ increases with modest boost of 10 psi (~230 rwhp). I would think we could get well over 100hp at a very safe 8 psi, given that we have 2 extra cylendars and double the displacement. So my estimate is at least 100 hp with a supercharger at 6-8 psi and at least 150 hp from a turbo at 10 psi. (Ladies and gentlemen, if you will direct your attention to the rearview mirror, you can see a Z06 rapidly fading in the distance...)
I wouldn't go for more than 10 psi or so on a stock engine because it is a high compression engine. If you are willing to swap out the pistons for 9:1 compression (or so) then I don't see why you couldn't push 15 psi and get a 200 hp increase. (This is considering that one of the miata guys is pushing 20 psi and putting nearly 400 hp to the wheels in an otherwise stock 1.8 liter engine)

 

Yes, you're correct. I did set low esimates. However, I considered several points:

1. Nissan may go with a high compression setup.
2. If a company like Nismo sells the kit, they would want to keep things nice and reliable. (For example, the reported difference between the NA Maxda MP3 and the upcoming factory Turbo version is only 30HP.)
3. I was aiming at those who don't go too crazy due to concerns about screwing up their $30K+ vehicle.

Having said all this, I understand what you are saying. The output range for turbos is so variable. You can go from 30HP to 300HP depending on the selection of parts and your tolerance to pain. I suspect many will go for a Turbo kit with the output you described, but, it will probably come from the aftermarket, where they don't have to care about long term reliability.

I personally would opt for a Nismo kit if I felt it offered better longevity. Do you really need 400+HP for road use?

 

LOL! I have no idea! I'm driving a '86 s-10 blazer with about 140 hp. I've been waiting for "my" car for about 15 years. (Wife and kids come first!) Because I refuse to buy on credit, I am limited to about $30k. I was looking at buying a miata, and had pretty thoroughly investigated the turbo market to get to the performance I wanted... when the 350z was announced with the performance I was shooting for right out the door - and for the same or lower price!

But seriousely, I have a friend putting out 425 rwhp in a 93 RX-7. That car is scary fast. I don't know if I will ever need more than the stock engine puts out, but that's what he thought when he bought the rx-7. Then again, he's crazy... In anycase, if I ever do upgrade, I don't think I will be willing to put out $6K for less than a 100-125hp increase, because I suspect I would be targeting the Z06. Should be able to do that safely with a supercharger running 6-8 psi.

 

I cannot argue here. $6,000 is a lot to spend for less than 100HP. We'll have to wait and see...

 

Chipping it would be a waste of money. If by installing a chip for the ECU, why wasn't it programed like that? When you go to put on the supercharger, thats when the chip will be needed. If your planning on getting only the chip, why not spend that money on some handling parts. You'd see a better gain on the road and track.

 

Lots o people chip their cars. Not everyone goes for a turbo or supercharger. Plus, even if they do, companies like JWT only charge $100 to reprogram their performance chip to work with a turbo etc. (to your exact specs). $100 is not alot if you're spending $6,000 on a turbo kit.

 

I understand that people do this. But in a normally aspirated engine, how much can a chip really help?

If the car was a turbo or supercharger it can increase the boost pressure or advance the timing and fuel management to balance out the increased boost.

My point was that if someone was getting a forced air add-on, then a chip would be a great idea.

 

I think if a chip doesn't buy you at least 10HP then it's not worth it. Although a nice increase in throttle response is always a good thing and I doubt you will be able to advance the timing without the chip.

 

Several things to note here.

1. FYI - In the original poll, swaybars is listed. There is actually no such thing as a swaybar on a car. A swaybar is a very very generic name for an anti-roll bar. The purpose of the bar is to limit body roll (hence the name) and to transfer loading from one tire to the other. There is no such vehicle dynamic trait of sway, or body sway, hence the name is not correct. Likewise, stabilizer bar is not correct either because they can often make the vehicle very unstable.

2. ECUs on NA OBDII equiped motors typically don't do much if anything at all. They can make significant gains on FI cars by upping the boost but on NA cars all they can do is modify the A/F ratio. This might make some gains on some cars but could also make losses on others if other mods are done. I've seen many a case where an ECU would make 2 to 3 whp on a car when it was stock but once some mods where done it actually took away 2 to 3 whp.

 

Thanks for that bit of insight. In England we always used the correct term "anti-roll bar" but I picked up the bad habit of referring to them as "swaybars" from you Americans . Really, it's much easier to say and nearly everyone knows what you are referring to. But, if you insist on technical correctness then I will use the correct term from now on.

Your statement on the ECU will probably apply also to the Z. My only point of reference with chip upgrades is on a OBD I NA motors. I was surprised at the number of ECU upgrades in the poll although I suspect most of them also checked the boxes for Turbo or Supercharger, so an upgrade would be appropriate.

I suspect Nissan will leave little on the table for simple bolt-ons. However, My Nismo Poll was just designed to get "non-mod" people thinking about mods and their possibilities. Afterall, why should I be the only one spending large sums of money on aftermarket parts?

 

I really have doubts that an ECU would make a big difference on the Z. I wouldn't mess with one if I did the forced induction route either. If you get a chip setup for an NA car and run forced induction, you are looking for trouble. They will have the fuel and spark curves maximized for NA use, and even with a low boost level you would most likely encounter severe detonation. If I go forced induction, I will probably do some type of stand alone engine management, it will be much safer and you will be able to extract the maximum potential from the engine, and also be able to modify your engine parameters to take advantage of future modifications.
Camshafts would be a great upgrade, but I don't think we would see a 40 hp gain from cams alone. I don't see cams running more than $600.
As for my route for modifications, I am going to sit back and wait a bit to see what works best. As with the LS1 guys, they are just starting to find what works very well. They have a single turbo kit out now that on a stock motor will produce 537 rwhp and 647 rwtq for only $5000. I don't see why we wouldn't see similar gains on the Z, I think a $5000 turbo kit could easily be a 125+ hp upgrade.

 

Federal law prohits the voiding of warranties based on aftermarket installation. Unless the part actually caused the damage and it's not easy to definitely prove it was the cause.

Here's the link for further reading. http://www.sema.org/content/?ID=2223...=void+warranty

 

The Audi/VW crowds deal with this problem constantly. The 1.8t engine is a great engine to mod, as you can get *very* serious performance improvements out of it. (I've taken mine from 150hp to about 225hp/260ft-lbs for about $2000.) However, Audi/VW is notorious for denying warranty work by saying that some seemingly totally unrelated mod caused the problem. Once they say that and deny you your warranty work, you have two options:

1) Just deal with it an pay for the repair, even though you don't think your mod caused the problem.

2) Make them formally prove it. Get a lawyer, do the whole legal thing.

The problem is that option #2 is a big pain in the butt, and most people don't have the time or money to go that legal route. In the few cases I've seen so far, they ended up being huge hassles, and even then they didn't always turn out too well.

So the questions you should consider are:

1) What is Nissan's track record as far as aftermarket modifications and warranty work? Audi/VW is very bad about this, and I've heard Subaru and BMW are getting bad about it. (But for some reason none of the Volvo owners I know seem to have much of a problem. They mod the crap out of their cars, and the dealers love it. Weird. Too bad there isn't a rear wheel drive C70, or I might consider one.)

2) If Nissan is generally not okay with aftermarket mods, do you have a local dealer that might "secretly" be okay with you modding your car. In the Audi/VW crowd, if you can find a dealer that will be okay with your mods and give you warranty work despite them, then hallelujah! But they are hard to come by.

Anyway, I'm certainly not saying I think mods are bad... just look at my Audi! But people should be aware of what they are getting into when they mod their cars. Be prepared to get a *lot* of grief from your dealer. (Unless you're one of the lucky few who find a mod-friendly dealer!)