Theres got to be a way to make this happen... anybody have any ideas on how to convert the Z from gas to ethanol(E85)? I have looked all over the place to try and make this work but nobody makes any sort conversions for it! could it really just be as simple as hose conversion?

 

 

doesn't ethanol eat away at aluminum?

 

I think it just eats away certain types of rubbers used in fuel lines, etc...

 

Methonal eats away at aluminum if I am not mistaken which is essentially alcohol fuel used in cars such as Top Fuel Dragsters. With methonal I believe that you have to flush the system after each time at the track.

Ethonal which if I am not mistaken is just corn fuel basically is corrosive I think but I don't know what else it requires other than rubber hoses of a different make up.

 

The hoses might need to be changed out; you'd need an external fuel pump, larger injectors, and some sort of engine management system. Ethanol has a lower btu than gasoline so you will need to use more ethanol to get the same kind of power. Somewhere along the lines of ethanol 85,000 btu vs gasoline 110,000. Not exact numbers but you get the idea.

There is more to it but those are the basics.

 

I have done alot of research on E85 compatable systems (my next project might be an E85 powered RB20 or CA18 in some old datsun and our FSAE team at my school is switching to E85 this year as well).

The big change in E85 systems is the fuel system components. Ethanol isn't nearly as corrosive as methanol, but for reliablilty everything needs to be changed. The other thing to remember about ethanol is that it contains less energy per unit mass than gasoline, so you must run a much richer mixture to make the same amount of power. I saw some big block ford guys were running a 7.5:1 air/fuel ratio to get the optimum burn. Other than that E85 is pretty straight forward and not hard to use. It is safe in basically any gasoline powered engine as long as it isn't in contact with rubber parts. Here is a little of info that I have come up with...

Fuel lines: Either PTFE stainless braided hose or Aeroquip Startlite AQP Hose are 100% compatable with ethanol. Startlite is about 2x the price of PTFE, but weighs about half because it is braided with nomex rather than stainless steel

Fuel injectors: These are tough to find. Generally look at GM's alternative fuel research vehicles to find these parts. I haven't sourced any large enough yet.

Fuel pump: Still not 100% positive on this part of the system and if most fuel pumps are compatable or not.

E85 still isn't the easiest fuel to come by. I have to drive 20 miles to get fuel for our formula car. And while yes it is cheaper/gal than 93oct gasoline, you have to use much more of it to make the same power, so price/mile doesn't change much. One added bonus with E85 though, is that it can make your motor run cooler and make your intake air temps much lower before they go into the engine (E85 is great for turbocharged cars). I still have a good deal to learn about E85 once we start tuning the car this year and see what kind of temp differences we actually see on the dyno. Hope this helps.

 

thanks! does help

i have found that coming by this fuel is alot harder than i thought although i for see this changeing in a couple of years.

Several bonds have been approved for biorefineries in southern CA. I really think there is going to be a shift in gasoline trends in the next 2-4 years.

i have also heard that if the right mixture is obtained then ethanol would be like runnning 110 octane in an internal combustion engine....

as far as methonal goes if anyone is running nitrus it is better to run a methanol conversion because it is a much cooler and more stable fuel. not economical however... not 100% sure about the system flush

 

It actually says 105 octane at the pump, but i hear it is different in different places.

 

There was a Mazda Miata in the April 07 issue of Dsport that was running Ethanol E85 and made 471WHP on the DynoJet. The company that did this car was Flyin' Miata and they used Precision T&E 1000cc Injectors. Hope this helps.

Matt

 

thanks!!

 

Ethanol fuel based cars is a great idea! Since Ethanol creates very little pollution when burned,and costs under $1.50 per gallon.Hopefully it will become more common in the US as it is in Brazil.

 

propane is also a great alternative fuel with a 100+ avg octane rating. the stoichiometry of propane is 15.5 : 1, opposed to gasoline of 14.7 : 1. so tuning is not as bad as one may think... besides the extra octane can compensate the difference. next, in california, CARB will approve if one's car operates under 'alternative fuel'... (smog exemption!) although there may BE exceptions.

sadly, i fear explosion with use of propane (very low boiling point), unlike a slight flame from gasoline (moderate boiling point).

http://www.gotpropane.com/p11.html
http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/acti...s-propane.html
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrgauge.htm (stoichiometry calculator)

 

^ never knew.... good information!

 

The effort would be a waste of time since you would not gain any mpg

 

Since CA is so enviromentially friendly what do you think will happen when these medical stiudies get proven?

"But our results show that a high blend of ethanol poses an equal or greater risk to public health than gasoline, which already causes significant health damage."


""In our study, E85 increased ozone-related mortalities in the United States by about 200 deaths per year compared to gasoline, with about 120 of those deaths occurring in Los Angeles," Jacobson said. "These mortality rates represent an increase of about 4 percent in the U.S. and 9 percent in Los Angeles above the projected ozone-related death rates for gasoline-fueled vehicles in 2020."

The study showed that ozone increases in Los Angeles and the northeastern United States will be partially offset by decreases in the southeast. "However, we found that nationwide, E85 is likely to increase the annual number of asthma-related emergency room visits by 770 and the number of respiratory-related hospitalizations by 990," Jacobson said. "Los Angeles can expect 650 more hospitalizations in 2020, along with 1,200 additional asthma-related emergency visits."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0418072616.htm


Study funded by Stanford University and NASA

 

Exactly right, as new findings are being released that refutes previous claims about Ethanol being more environmentally friendly than gasoline. 2 renowned atmospheric scientist Mark Jacobson from Stanford University and Roger Atkinson from the University of California are saying that "It's been known for a long time that E85 is not the cleanest fuel in the world.” It has been proven that even though E85 vehicles which reduces atmospheric levels of butadiene and butadiene; replaces the two carcinogens with increased levels 2 other, formaldehyde and acetaldehyde, ya-da, ya-da.

Our knowledge of ethanol emissions are still in its infancy; as we are clueless about the interaction between ethanol emissions with our atmosphere and various airborne chemicals.

G
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You can probably do it with some tuning. Your car will probably get a lot slower unless you use E100


The key thing about Ethanol is that it's a RENEWABLE energy source. That is its claim to fame. Fossil fuels are NOT renewable.