scratch137

iTrader: (7)

Ok so as most of the people going NA already know, its pretty damn near impossible to break 300whp w/o doing some SERIOUS engine work. But now in Japan, those tuners are already breaking that, and are going for 400whp!!!


My question to you all is simple. How the F* are they doing that. I looked into some of the builds on their cars, and it just doesnt make any sense. For example;

The Amuse Z, we all know this is a killer. Amuse claims they only did the following, and are achieveing ~300whp:

* Nismo Spec 2 Camshafts
* Nismo Spec 2 Heads
* Titanium Intake Tube
* Tuned ECU ROM
* Titanium Exhaust
* Titanium Front Pipe (includes headers and Test pipes)
* Titanium Y Pipe

I know titanium doesnt make a diff in horsepower, but only in wieght, so i know that cant be their secrete. The only other thing i can think of is either the "front pipe" which are basically long tube headers (why dont we use these?) and the Heads.


I dont have to much knowledge in heads, but i dont see how they can make that much horsepower off just these mods. Cams: 10-15, Intake tube 5?, Exhaust 8-14; Y-pipe included in exhaust HP, Front pipe, well headers and testpipes yield about 15ish? but i dont know seeing as to how i have never seen these used on a 350 on here, and then the heads, which much be giving about 15HP to get then up to 300ish area. The tune is what is making these numbers because w/o it, these mods wouldnt come near 300HP.


So somehow, they are getting some damn good numbers, and if you look at the designs of some of their products, you see they are the same design as products we use here, stateside.


Im just trying to figure out how they are making these numbers really, and through this, seeing what you guys think would be needed to achieve around 300HP like the Amuse. So post away at some of your suggestions, and correct me if im wrong (which i probably am im many areas). Also, if someone can lend some insight on about how much power heads can give because i was thinking about port and polishing my heads if they will give me a decent bit more power.


And for you guys to also juggle in your heads, Top Secrete is building a 400HP NA Z, and they already have a Z they claim makes around 320whp, w/ about the same mods as the Amuse (actually i think the same mods except the heads). I was looking on the TS website, and noticed headers were like 5000$ and just fell out of my chair haha. But they do have an individual throttle body kit that could make some serious power. Give some input on that, seeing as to how it is very common on most J-spec cars over there, and not here.




Sorry if this seems stupid, and like a rant, i just kinda have been thinking about this for a while, and now im at the point where i need everyone elses geniousnessity (sp? lol).





Thanks,
Dan

chris'smax

iTrader: (5)

IIRC i don't remember seeing a dyno on here of someone having cams and ported heads on here w/ a dyno posted. It is deff not out of the realm of possibilty for them to hit 300whp w/ those mods. Hell most people here with a header back exhaust, manifold, reflash, and intake(tha major powa adda ) see close to 270whp. Now with higher duration cams and some head work and port matching of the lower intake manifold would more than likely accomplish this. I would also assume they are using a far superior engine management setup than the average joe who uses a technosquare ECU.

Also remember the nismo spec 2 cams are far more aggressive than the JWT cams and Nismo r-tune cams.

rocks

iTrader: (1)

I will tell you thier secret. They arent using some hardcore expensive engine managment. They are using the stock ecu to control the variable cam timing and getting hp that way. Call technosquare they will tell you they can change your cam timing for more power.

97supratt

iTrader: (61)

Changing cam characteristics on the ecu is only used when you install cams, so he has to have aftermarket cams to get any gains.

scratch137

iTrader: (7)

Well about how much do you think the heads are giving them? I know i was talking to a friend today and he does headwork on his porshe, and has done headwork for his friends civics and 240s etc, and he said i can probably gain around 30 to the wheels from heads. He hasnt ever worked on 350z heads, but he said most likely, by cutting the heads down abit, and raising compression to around 11:1/12.1 i could get ~30whp. Does that sound about right? And does that sound about right for those nismo heads?

Mantis77

iTrader: (4)

Here ya go...... Try these out.
http://www.cosworth.com/shop_item.php?productid=442

Combined with:
http://www.cosworth.com/shop_item.php?productid=465

Easy way to spend $12,000 on PARTS!

plumpzz

iTrader: (10)

Head games can probably make better heads than the ones cosworth sells.

Enron Exec

Basicly, making more power is all about getting more air into the combustion chamber. You can either force it in or you can allow the pistons to pull more in per stroke. Those heads probably also have a valvetrain for 8krpm operation.

scratch137

iTrader: (7)

With NA though, i thought you want to raise combustion? Wouldnt allowing more flow from the heads make for lower combustion, or am i looking at this the exact opposite. Im a "duh-du-duh" when it comes to heads.

eat rice z33

iTrader: (11)

The JDM tuners dont only focus on slapping **** on the engine and doing ricer math. it involves complex dynamics between different parts. Tuners like TOMEI for example have ridiculous RandD. They make there headers while having the engine on an engine dyno. Who in america does that? crawford? dc? exactly. Plus the ecu tuning in japan far exceeds anything a UTEC can do. They simply use engineers to design there engine parts. not your typical american engine builder who has little if any background in engineering which does not allow them to understand statics, thermodynamics, and complex mathematics that are involved in engine building. I only have some understanding of the mathermatics of an internal combustion engine because my friends are mechanical/chemical engineers. i am an electrical engineer student. But i know enough to speak my mind.

scratch137

iTrader: (7)

Ok well a few things i was wondering from some of these responces;

1) What is the Headgames website lol
2) Where can i find Nismo Spec2 heads
3) If i where to port & polish my heads locally by a professional, would it be safe to assume the same gains as a nismo headkit or a headgames kit etc? Or is there more to those kits then just Port n polish? What i mean i guess is, can i do what those kits do w/ just port and polishing?


And idk if anyone has noticed this but tomei has a ECU, Headers, TPs, and more for sale w/ USDM prices on their website:

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/vq35/vq35_en.htm


Anyone think that their ECU might be worth the purchase? Its cheaper then UTEC and from what i can see, gives = gains. Also, their headers are decently priced, and hell, their entire header/TP/ECU package for 2000$ is cheaper then what it would cost to buy other brands over here stateside.

nismology1

Most people don't go aggressive enough with the cams. Until i see someone with nismo spec 2 cams or equivalent, 12:1 compression or higher, headwork, larger MAF housing or eliminating it completely, and long-tube headers there's power being left on the table.

scratch137

iTrader: (7)

by long tube header, you mean headers that go all the way to teh y-pipe. Basically eliminating cats,TPs?

scratch137

iTrader: (7)

Can anyone answer any of these?

LG_z33

The Amuse car runs high compression pistons in conjunction with the other parts listed by the op. I would also like to know what gas they achieve their numbers with and what dyno they use.

Mantis77

iTrader: (4)

They most likely run extremely high compression along with 100+ octane fuel.

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

I would like to see some dynos.

and I never see WHP quoted from japanese tuners, it's always BHP or crank hp.

and the last time I heard about their cars, they were hitting just under or over 300hp (whp?) with fully built lower ends but stock airbox in this > http://www.jdm-option.com/eng/featur...2/z33_v35.html < shootout.

I call BS.

Nismo 350z

I wouldnt call BS. The Nismo RS Concept hit 340whp on a dynapack. Read it on the link you provided. Also the new Nismo 380RS is making 395bhp. Do the math and calculate rwhp yourself. So a fully built NA motor with ITBs, long tube headers, MAF and DCW disabled, agressive cams, race gas, and hc pistons should gain more than that. Adding a stroker kit should provide with more power. Thats what the 380RS did. 3.8l stroker kit, long tubes, but dont know much about internals.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

1. going for 400 whp and coming close to achieving it are 2 completely different things

2. every car you see that is remotely close (highest right now is in the 350-360 range on a Dynapack) are running compression from 13 to 13.5:1

3. they have virtually unlimited budgets

NA costs $, period, to do so in a reliable fashion.

Nismo 350z

Exactly but we all know NA is more fun to drive than FI.