warmmilk

iTrader: (5)

can u provide a link to that 510 hp na motor? thats what i call damn impressive

i was hoping mere mortals would at least be able 400 whp na, hopefully we see that in the not to distant future

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

IES Engineering did the build for them. They have built two championship winning touring cars for Nissan using the VQ30. Their VQ34 engine makes 500 hp at 9500rpm. Photo attached. Interestingly, they did the same thing as Nismo and ditched the CVTC system and threw on a VQ30 front cover. I guess it is a racing engine, so why bother with the cam phasing when you spend your whole time in the last 3k rpm all day long. They used a VQ30 crank and then bored the VQ35 block out to 96.5mm to get a 3.4L displacement. Interesting enough, Cosworth UK stocks 96.5mm pistons.
Will
http://www.iesracing.co.uk/3ltrV6.htm#threefour
http://www.rjnmotorsport.com/
A more streetable version of this engine:
http://www.lustthenlove.com/Page5.htm

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

The newer VQ35 engine is in Nissan Sport mag, I don't have any pics of it. I think with darton sleeves, a VQ38 could make an *easy* 360whp when the right parts and tuning becomes available. Again, just 250lb/ft @ 7500 rpm would do the trick, and we have the heads and cams to make the volumetric efficiency needed to produce that torque available in the market right now. I still think the intake is a major restriction, but Lang R has 420 NA crank hp in their Z33 right now, and it uses a modified Nissan plenum with a larger TB.
Will
BTW: the IES VQ35 and VQ34 both make more power than Porsche gets from it's 3.8L (101mm bore), 485 hp full on RSR racing engine. And IES has run their engines for over 9k miles racing, a full season, with no problems or loss in power. Impressive.

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

thanks for joining the fun lance, sorry i am VERY busy so i didnt have time to get back with you.


i am still very interested in what we talked about.

i will call you in a few days or feel free to send me an email to sales@performancefactory.com with what we discussed.

i kinda like warmmilk talking down about everything, it gives me yet another reason to make more hp...


thanks everyone for being so cool about it all....

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

it kinda sucks that everything takes so long to do. i should have the cams in very soon, plus we will be trying out some different headers for sure. i feel like now i am making very expensive educated guesses but at the end of the day, its still fun!!!

warmmilk

iTrader: (5)

damn how many time do i need to say this, i'm not talking u down, i was just expecting more than 305 whp, yes, even with mild cams and crappy headers

i really hope and wish u the best of luck in producing some truly impressive #'s, cause 305 isn't all that impressive, and yes i know this is still r&d, just that everyone was worshipping 305whp like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, when really its not that high of a number, it may be the highest # out of a na vq we've seen (that doens't have factory support building all out race motors), but its not that gread of a #

again, thanks for ur time that you put into this project and from what i'm hear, all the time and money that u plan putting into this in the future

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

The truly inspirational thing about you is you talk about changing cams like changing your underwear...

RBlover69

iTrader: (2)

werd, if i changed cams my life would change lmao how would i get to work..damn i just spent mad money on cams. sht i gotta get them installed. sht the installation to get them installed is massive money. sht the time it takes to get them. sht will they mess up my streetable driving. sht i just spend massive money on cams. lmao this is from a average joe lol


to jeremy : yea im trying out some sets of cams to see if they work.....educated guess nothing more lmao.

being carefree about modding and having your own VQ haven shop = priceless

ZU L8R

iTrader: (84)

Jeremy's car is easy to work on. He could prob do headers in 20-30 min. There's NOTHING in your way!

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

yeah, i have pretty much made my car as easy as possible.

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

that makes a lot of sense now that you mention it.

SergEK

320whp/2.6L = 123 WHP per liter
430whp/3.5L = 123 WHP per liter

I think this is what Mr Warm milk is trying to say

The only problem is the VQ community is already aware of the hurdles the VQ has to making that kind of power NA

Small heads, V layout, cam choices

You can perhaps open the heads with research $$$$$
You cant change the V layout ---- rpm limitation remains
Cams only operate on main lobe, no race lobe option --- less drivability

The Inline K can rev higher, use more agressive cams and flow like Niagra....the VQ just isnt close to touching a K at this point in time

However.....the new 3.7L VQ has variable lift on the intake side....basically a VTEC of sorts....but only on the intake side like many SOHC Hondas....but eventually they will have this variable lift option on the exhaust as well

WIth this variable lift mechanism and better intake mani (new twin TBs and plennum havent been tinkered with yet) the VQ stands a chance at at least 100 WHP per liter on pump I think which to us would be heaven

370whp from a VQ on pump? More than a few Z owners I know are dreaming of this right now

I think in a matter of 3 years or so maybe 4 max we will have 370+whp NA Z's roaming the streets


I love Honda engines because of the dedication to push the limits.....the Porsche guys have variable lift to help them achieve their numbers as well as VANOS for BMW.....NIssan is slowly making up ground and will slowly get more efficient

My concern is with pump gas, daily driven setups for NA.....any Billy Bob can hog out ports, run race gas and huge cams.......tuning an NA motor for street duty is much harder.....one HUGE part to that is variable lift....NIssan is begining to use it on the 3.7L and maybe one day the new 4.0L VQ will have it on both I/E and make 400whp when tuned for street duty....add a nice 100 shot and thats a nice reliable daily beast

Only time will tell

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

one step at a time, we cant just skip a year of R n D.

its easy to make the motor hold boost and turn it up to make power.


it takes a lot of time and money to make power NA.

98 percent of the people who want power go turbo. so it slows down the NA market, LOTS of honda guys like the NA route..

HardTech

Congrats to the OP for getting to that point. I think the argument is taking away the OP's thunder when it shouldn’t.

Regardless 300 hp from a 3.5L is not bad at all. I right now have a 4.0L engine pushing a whooping 160-hp at the engine. I think when dnyo'ed (going off other peoples reports. not gonna waste 200 bucks for this) it been known to be 120-125 Maybe since I have a CAI i might have gained 3 hp... oh boy!

So could be much worse

And to think, with me barely pushing it I spank 90% of vehicles in traffic here in Dallas Its all about predicting traffic, and knowing side streets

Ill be happy to get in something that is less than 4.0L and has a 0-60 time of less than 10.7 second

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

I think the issue people are taking is the overall tone of your posts, coupled with the lack of your history here

If you knew, for yourself, the time effort and funds required to get to even 290 whp, then perhaps then you would be able to better appreciate the effort that 305 whp is.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

The VQ does not have "small" heads. They are some of the best flowing stock heads made. They have tremendous potential from porting, Nismo head porting, or the Cosworth heads. The research to "open them up" is already done.
The V layout provides better rotational dynamics than an inline 4, and is not an issue for breathing. The lack of hood clearance for a larger intake manifold design *might* be an issue.
Cam choices? There are already so many aggressive cam set-ups available that it's not a limiting issue. 28x degree duration with up to 12mm of lift are out there from Tomei, Nismo, etc.. but tuning the CVTC seems to be the limitation.

First, the VVeL is nothing like iVtec on the K series. Second, it might not be all that hot for big NA numbers since, like BMW's system, it won't survive at high rpm's due to the mass involved. Finally, the big NA guns from Porsche and BMW don't use any type of variable valve lift, anyways. Porsche GT3 uses Variocam on the intake side only to alter cam duration. BMW uses Vanos on the intake and exhaust to alter timing on teir M3, M5, and new V8 M3. Again, neither have variable lift. Don't get hung up on the flash of Honda's Vtec or variable lift, it's been proven that it isn't needed for big streetable NA power. The twin TB manifold migh be the ticket on the newer HR engine if it relieves what I consider to be a bottleneck, but no one knows for sure. In time, DE and HR engines will be making plnty of power NA if the tuning hardware and expertise becomes more prevelent. As it is, Honda guys have plenty of money going into all motor R&D, we don't. The majority want FI power for less money, so that's where all the research has gone. But, the VQ as it is, is not limited by it's design for big NA power numbers.
Will

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

EXACTLY!!!

There are a wide variety of cam choices out there - there are just not many guys using those options, because they inherenly become part of a very expensive build.

The limiting factor as it sits, is the owner base and guys like Jeremy doing "let's see if this works" type tests. There are countless examples of the VQ's use in motorsports, from Dakar to Formula Renault. However, it is, and remains to be an expensive proposition to go NA, and most don't have the patience or budget for it for a street car when FI is such a readily available proposition. Once there are more of us out there who want to zig instead of zag, you'll see the power curve go upwards significantly, and you'll see a trickle down from the motorsports scene to the more "everyman" scene.

97supratt

iTrader: (61)

This thread has inspired me as well. Obviously I won't tear apart my motor and swap out pistons, but I might look into cams and headwork.

Thanks Jeremy, you truely are a crazy nut when it comes to Z's. Keep up the good work.

97supratt

iTrader: (61)

On another note, hey jeremy why don't you look into the REVUP lower manifolds and port them a bit.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

cams and headwork without the ability of the bottom end to rev is largely going to be a wasted effort