UPDATES: TechnoSquare ECU
05-07-2003, 09:05 AM
#1
TechnoSquare ECU Thread *sticky me*
Summaries of all the posts on the ECU being developed in conjunction with TechnoSquare Inc. and Cheston [ 
me!]
Please post your QUESTIONS here
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=20980
Anything posted here will be deleted.
2-27-03
ECU sent to Japan to Techtom/TechnoSquare.
US spec ECU has the same hardware as JDM spec one.
Techtom flash reprogramming device lets you overwrite the ECU with your performance data from their PC. so pretty much means that most of the programming can be done either thru in-car reprogramming from diagnostic port and direct reprogramming from ECU connector on the bench that’s hooked up to a computer
3-04-03
This is what i told them to look for:
-Rev limiter,Immobilizer Bit, A/F codes, Timing.
-If we do have a speed limiter, to find that too.
As for when the ECU resets, it will NOT erase the program that will be FLASH'd on.. sweet! so in all likelyhood, Turbo/NOS applications COULD be programmed...
3-05-03
Reprogram of the chip is successful....
Normally you would want to send in your own ECU, as for your car key will work with your own ECU *due to the immobilizer*... as for Nissan knowing you have modified the ecu, all they have to do is pull the data thru the diagnostics port and they can see which FLASH version you are running..
3-12-03
My ECU is back in the states, we will now undergo hacking the air fuel map to correctly tune it!
4-21-03
Dyno of the car resulted at 278 at the crank. It's from a Bosch dyno so it's not a regular dyno jet or dyno pack. It's an older dyno style that gives results in k/w... used for tuning purposes most of the time... Anyways, the ECU was re-flash with the stock program and went back and re-dyno and it was the same 278. Interesting note, if you disconnect the battery after a mod for example... you gain a few HP [3-5], but then then the computer re-learns and it brings the curve down a bit.
locating the fuel map for the car seems to be the most difficult portion of the ecu reprogram.... It seems Nissan didnt' go with their traditional fuel/timing map layout. Ignition map is already found. Doesn't really make much sense (in terms of what it displays) but we found it. The Tuner has the Japanese 350Z ECU mapping. He's using it to compare between the the two. He's thinking about putting the JDM program in the US computer and re-dyno and see results.
Taken from a Website on the Bosch Type Dyno:
The BOSCH Chassis Dynamometer LPS 002 measures the dynamicwheel power and the power loss in the transmission, and displays the effective engine power (brake horsepower) directly as the sum of the two.
A test-roller set with a defined inertia effect (inertia flywheel) is driven and accelerated by the vehicle's driving wheels.
The power at the wheels can be determined from the acceleration of the Dynamometer mass with the engine running at wide-open throttle (WOT).
Upon reaching the measurement speed, the engine is disconnected from the remaining drive elements by declutching. The energy stored in the test-roller set now drives all the transmission elements with which the test rollers are in contact.
The power loss is determined from the deceleration resulting from the rolling resistance, and from the transmission and bearing resistance's.
Using the wheel power and the power loss, an electronic evaluation unit calculates the engine power at the clutch.
The evaluation circuitry measures the wheel power during acceleration and the power loss during deceleration
My car gave 278 at the crank....that will be the baseline numbers approximately in which we will be using...this is strictly done for tuning reasons... a dynojet dyno will be used once the program is completed, to get some numbers so people dont flip out when numbers are stated..
NO NEW PROGRAM WAS YET INSTALLED with this dyno. Clarification:STOCK program dynoed at 278. the STOCK program was REinstalled to check if the numbers were the same.. which it was..we did this to make sure we really had a baseline data to work off of.. the removal of the battery was to test if REinstalling the STOCK program would be any different than removing power to the ECU. ie. to simulate an installed new modification which people do....
4-22-03
There are seven different ECUs that are made for the Z. Our beloved 350z is the first ever nissan using a network system where each part of the components have their own computer. Think of it as a LAN network.. there are two wires traveling from each component going to a main network line.... ABS has its own computer. VDC. Tyre Pressure.. they're all talking to the main computer.. and which relates to changes... intake, exhaust. everything is controlled indepentdently thru sensors, so adjusting the ECU is harder than you think. we're trying to intercept those messages and decypher what they all mean. This might be the cause of why so many people are dynoing their Injen intakes at 15+hp right after install, but a few monthes later, the gain is back to Nil.
4-29-03
We have a good idea on how to tune the 350Z, but we need to do a 'heavy' mod so that it triggers the ECU to do something major to the numbers so we can find those key values, and base the tuning off what changes...... Its stock right now, we believe we can knock about 5-7rwhp more in stock form on premium pump gas...91 octane. You know how everyone is slapping on intakes and the car first gains power but then the hp goes away? Its due to a feedback control loop the ECU has for Fuel and Ignition timing... this is a new system Nissan has in all its New (2003+) cars... this number is a preset value which will tell the car to go back to its original state when it senses changes... well we just, prevent that from happening by altering this feedback number to a lower value so that the ECU cant adjust as much back.. we're testing the waters with slightly lower values and will keep on doing so until we reach a safe limit of where it dont adversely affect any safety measures pre-programmed into the ECU to prevent knocking.. but so far the preliminary results are pretty good... Ingition mapping is complete, the fuel curveis also nearly mapped out..
We're going to experiment with the exhaust system and build a custom Ypipe (and possible bpipe) to eliminate the cats to see if we can get power there and in doing so, tune the car with the new exhaust system to see if we can yeild higher gains than stock.. purely based on the fact the cats are a restriction in the exhaust.... They are also going to try to create a new intake system using their airflow machine.. They have a machine there that can calculate max CFM flow based on filter/tube design, and quite possible make an intake tubing that will yeild higher CFM flow rates than stock, with a velocity stack built into the tube... (venturi's principle)
I'm optomistic at the gains. but i still would like better numbers from the stock ECU tune on pump gas.. obviously any tuned ECU will make mad gains from 100+ octane, but alot of people dont have access to that kind of gas normally...
The ECU can not physically dial back the amount of air flow you are receiving. BUT the engine computer CAN alter the amount of flow of fuel to counter act the more air.... more air flow with the same amount of fuel is by definition LEAN. So the car senses a LEAN(-er) air flow and counter acts this with more FUEL, ending up with a near normal air to fuel ratio and thus cutting the power gains.
ALL ecus will benefit with higher octane.... a more efficient fuel mapping with higher efficient gas will definately yeild good gains on any engine..
5-3-03
From what i've seen in person on stock from the Maxima and other supposedly 'premium fuel only' fuel curves, most stock ecu programs are done so that the common 'idiot' can drive a car and not subsequently blow it up... worse case senario would probably someone driving on 87 octane in 120+ degree weather in the Mojave desert... there is an inherient 'buffer' placed into the stock program to drive the car in a wide range of environments... ECU programs just 'eliminate' some of this buffer zone to let the engine run a bit more efficient...
me!]Please post your QUESTIONS here
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=20980
Anything posted here will be deleted.
2-27-03
ECU sent to Japan to Techtom/TechnoSquare.
US spec ECU has the same hardware as JDM spec one.
Techtom flash reprogramming device lets you overwrite the ECU with your performance data from their PC. so pretty much means that most of the programming can be done either thru in-car reprogramming from diagnostic port and direct reprogramming from ECU connector on the bench that’s hooked up to a computer
3-04-03
This is what i told them to look for:
-Rev limiter,Immobilizer Bit, A/F codes, Timing.
-If we do have a speed limiter, to find that too.
As for when the ECU resets, it will NOT erase the program that will be FLASH'd on.. sweet! so in all likelyhood, Turbo/NOS applications COULD be programmed...
3-05-03
Reprogram of the chip is successful....
Normally you would want to send in your own ECU, as for your car key will work with your own ECU *due to the immobilizer*... as for Nissan knowing you have modified the ecu, all they have to do is pull the data thru the diagnostics port and they can see which FLASH version you are running..
3-12-03
My ECU is back in the states, we will now undergo hacking the air fuel map to correctly tune it!
4-21-03
Dyno of the car resulted at 278 at the crank. It's from a Bosch dyno so it's not a regular dyno jet or dyno pack. It's an older dyno style that gives results in k/w... used for tuning purposes most of the time... Anyways, the ECU was re-flash with the stock program and went back and re-dyno and it was the same 278. Interesting note, if you disconnect the battery after a mod for example... you gain a few HP [3-5], but then then the computer re-learns and it brings the curve down a bit.
locating the fuel map for the car seems to be the most difficult portion of the ecu reprogram.... It seems Nissan didnt' go with their traditional fuel/timing map layout. Ignition map is already found. Doesn't really make much sense (in terms of what it displays) but we found it. The Tuner has the Japanese 350Z ECU mapping. He's using it to compare between the the two. He's thinking about putting the JDM program in the US computer and re-dyno and see results.
Taken from a Website on the Bosch Type Dyno:
The BOSCH Chassis Dynamometer LPS 002 measures the dynamicwheel power and the power loss in the transmission, and displays the effective engine power (brake horsepower) directly as the sum of the two.
A test-roller set with a defined inertia effect (inertia flywheel) is driven and accelerated by the vehicle's driving wheels.
The power at the wheels can be determined from the acceleration of the Dynamometer mass with the engine running at wide-open throttle (WOT).
Upon reaching the measurement speed, the engine is disconnected from the remaining drive elements by declutching. The energy stored in the test-roller set now drives all the transmission elements with which the test rollers are in contact.
The power loss is determined from the deceleration resulting from the rolling resistance, and from the transmission and bearing resistance's.
Using the wheel power and the power loss, an electronic evaluation unit calculates the engine power at the clutch.
The evaluation circuitry measures the wheel power during acceleration and the power loss during deceleration
My car gave 278 at the crank....that will be the baseline numbers approximately in which we will be using...this is strictly done for tuning reasons... a dynojet dyno will be used once the program is completed, to get some numbers so people dont flip out when numbers are stated..
NO NEW PROGRAM WAS YET INSTALLED with this dyno. Clarification:STOCK program dynoed at 278. the STOCK program was REinstalled to check if the numbers were the same.. which it was..we did this to make sure we really had a baseline data to work off of.. the removal of the battery was to test if REinstalling the STOCK program would be any different than removing power to the ECU. ie. to simulate an installed new modification which people do....
4-22-03
There are seven different ECUs that are made for the Z. Our beloved 350z is the first ever nissan using a network system where each part of the components have their own computer. Think of it as a LAN network.. there are two wires traveling from each component going to a main network line.... ABS has its own computer. VDC. Tyre Pressure.. they're all talking to the main computer.. and which relates to changes... intake, exhaust. everything is controlled indepentdently thru sensors, so adjusting the ECU is harder than you think. we're trying to intercept those messages and decypher what they all mean. This might be the cause of why so many people are dynoing their Injen intakes at 15+hp right after install, but a few monthes later, the gain is back to Nil.
4-29-03
We have a good idea on how to tune the 350Z, but we need to do a 'heavy' mod so that it triggers the ECU to do something major to the numbers so we can find those key values, and base the tuning off what changes...... Its stock right now, we believe we can knock about 5-7rwhp more in stock form on premium pump gas...91 octane. You know how everyone is slapping on intakes and the car first gains power but then the hp goes away? Its due to a feedback control loop the ECU has for Fuel and Ignition timing... this is a new system Nissan has in all its New (2003+) cars... this number is a preset value which will tell the car to go back to its original state when it senses changes... well we just, prevent that from happening by altering this feedback number to a lower value so that the ECU cant adjust as much back.. we're testing the waters with slightly lower values and will keep on doing so until we reach a safe limit of where it dont adversely affect any safety measures pre-programmed into the ECU to prevent knocking.. but so far the preliminary results are pretty good... Ingition mapping is complete, the fuel curveis also nearly mapped out..
We're going to experiment with the exhaust system and build a custom Ypipe (and possible bpipe) to eliminate the cats to see if we can get power there and in doing so, tune the car with the new exhaust system to see if we can yeild higher gains than stock.. purely based on the fact the cats are a restriction in the exhaust.... They are also going to try to create a new intake system using their airflow machine.. They have a machine there that can calculate max CFM flow based on filter/tube design, and quite possible make an intake tubing that will yeild higher CFM flow rates than stock, with a velocity stack built into the tube... (venturi's principle)
I'm optomistic at the gains. but i still would like better numbers from the stock ECU tune on pump gas.. obviously any tuned ECU will make mad gains from 100+ octane, but alot of people dont have access to that kind of gas normally...
The ECU can not physically dial back the amount of air flow you are receiving. BUT the engine computer CAN alter the amount of flow of fuel to counter act the more air.... more air flow with the same amount of fuel is by definition LEAN. So the car senses a LEAN(-er) air flow and counter acts this with more FUEL, ending up with a near normal air to fuel ratio and thus cutting the power gains.
ALL ecus will benefit with higher octane.... a more efficient fuel mapping with higher efficient gas will definately yeild good gains on any engine..
5-3-03
From what i've seen in person on stock from the Maxima and other supposedly 'premium fuel only' fuel curves, most stock ecu programs are done so that the common 'idiot' can drive a car and not subsequently blow it up... worse case senario would probably someone driving on 87 octane in 120+ degree weather in the Mojave desert... there is an inherient 'buffer' placed into the stock program to drive the car in a wide range of environments... ECU programs just 'eliminate' some of this buffer zone to let the engine run a bit more efficient...
05-09-2003, 12:38 PM
#2
5-6-03
An upgraded (but yet still conservative) fuel/air program on my car is yielding ~7hp with everything on the car STOCK... the 8hp gain you might be hearing about was with the East Coast Z race team or what not, and those codes have not yet been implimented with my Z... there is still room for improvements...
TechnoSquare has made a set of prototype downpipes that have eliminated the cat, stock size (~2.25") and drove with it for about 20 minutes, so far no CEL... the car is definately running/pulling better than before... the idea is that there is room in the car's program to get bigger gains with new down pipes.... The flanges and entire pipes are made from scratch. Tadashi took it to the near by Bosch Dyno and said it definally made some HP gains, he hasnt told me the numbers yet.. but its in addition to the ECU tuning... so ~7 + X... It's not much louder than stock either, as reported.
I'm waiting for a few key components to get shipped to the tuner shop, mainly exhaust/intake setup(s) and THEN do the big change in the ECU with a more aggressive tuning...
i understand the need to a 'solid' STOCK Z fuel program so i'll be trying to get that finalized... before all the other mods.....
we will be doing a flow bench test set with several intake setups to see which one yields the best CFM flow rates...
1. Stock air box
2. Full Injen setup with injen filter
3. just the JWT pop charger
4. Upper Injen Piping with JWT popcharger
with those data points, we'll probably make our own intake piping to get highest velocity possible...
one of the drawbacks of tuning the ECU is that it takes so long to flash it and everyone has to be really careful around the car when it's getting flashed.... One power surge or computer lockup, and your ECU is pretty much dead... thats due to the REALLY slow xfer rate of the programmer attachment...
5/9/03
We got some of the parts for the exhaust in.
we're going to try two different Ypipes... One 2.5" and one 2.25". It also has a set of pipes for between the "Y" pipe and muffler session. Then a Magnaflow exhaust... its more of a prototype exhaust system that an associate of StrictlyZ sent them. but its just to test what happens with a full exhaust...
On a really really neat note: We think we have found another ignition map that makes a huge difference. My Tuner changed it around and with traction control off, the car fishtails like crazy, much easier than before... and the throttle response is much more crisp....
5/12/03
We felt that the Magnaflow exhaust will not work any better than stock, so we abandoned the idea.. from installing it and running it for a while, its appears to be WORSE than stock...
here's the kicker..
We're done with the programming.
Conserning the ignition map and fuel maping. we got the ratio to around 12.5 air fuel and +40 degrees timing. He said 40 is a bit much, so he's going to retard it little. Stock is 25-26 degrees (I think). =) The main changes to the fuel/air program is to the top end of the RPM band, stock is around 10.5 and we leaned it out a bit to the end result of 12.5
NO CEL with the Test pipes (which will go on sale soon as well, along with a tuned Ypipe to go along with the test pipes as a option)
Tadashi claims that the stock airbox is a very good free flowing intake, possibly even better with a velocity stack addon would beat all the other intakes... they are planning to make that soon.
More info about the infamous 'dialing back' of power...
the deal is that the stock ecu bases some of its fuel/air input through the oxygen sensors in the car. The computer will try to follow the pre-set map from the factory. and uses feedback from the o2 sensors to do minor adjustments to the ignition/fuel mapping. So when you put the new intake system (aka Injen) the computer senses much more air flow than the stock mapping so, with this happening, the computer goes to the feedback value that's stored in the fuel/ignition timing maps to try to put it back stock levels.. which means.. the car is inputting RETARDATION in the timing map. its' taking away the ability for the engine to fire with the leaner air from the higher flowing intake.. so we're just removing/reducing that feedback value.. if you dont believe me.. Tadashi will post a full technical report later on at his company's website.
The modified ECU program will be released as a 'general' program. it will ADAPT to your mods and will allow the mods you put on your car to get a consistant power gains over time, w/o the ECU retardning the power back.... So, with that. this ECU program will work with a bone stock Z, a slightly modified Z, and/or fully decked out intake/plenum/header/cat/ypipe/catback'd Z too....
For boost applications, when they become available, they will have a program for that as well.
If you can find a spare ECU, TechnoSquare can make that computer to work with your Z.
5/13/02
Ha! this just getting better....
TechnoSquare went to get the dyno tune the car again, and found out that he accidently switched the timing and fuel maps around this past tune session... and lost alot of power.... which raised eyebrows...(and skipped a few hearts)...
We now realize that there are TWO fuel/TWO timing maps in the ECU. One set if for pre-VTC operation, and one is for VTC switch over. aka.. VTEC.. Variable Timing Control... just like a Honda... the boys at Nissan implimented a hard-core timing control program, which might explain the severe retardation of the ignition with intake mods... they got everything figured out.. so back to the dyno again later...
and.. we might be able to squeeze a few more ponies from the secondary timing mappings...
5/14/03
(repost and in-reply to a great question that everyone should understand)
TSI (TechnoSquareInc.) CAN generate unique tweaked programs for specific modifications, thats not the problem.. the problem is, finding that correct map that will make good power for each mod... now there are what, four different intakes out there on the market, let alone five different exhaust systems... to have the man power to put out almost 20 different ecu mappings, each one having to be specifically tuned. i understand that would be optimal, but thats just not really the best business scense, when 1 generic program will allow ALL these mods take benefit of a modified fuel/ignition timing changes. its not a stupid question, TSI just doesnt think its worth the phyiscal man hours to do such a thing... they have the program now at a point where the fuel/air ratio with the correct ignition timing will take advantage of ALL modifications done after the ECU is put on.. remember that feedback loop value i was talking about before? well by changing that value and limiting how the car tries to retard the timing, the 'changes' the ecu will try to do stops at a certain point and after its reached it 'equilibrium' of adjustments and you'll get constistant power gains rather than these flucuating dyno graphs we've seen from dynoing at time of mod and say, four monthes later...
If you pick up headers down the line, or pickup a full catback. the ECU will know this, and you'll still be benefiting from the ECU.... Now, say you go Boost, like i will intend do. (or NOS) THEN that will be a slightly different story where TSI will have to goback and redo a completely different (and probably a custom job at first) to get the correct retardation of the timing and a slightly richer fuel map than the Naturally Aspirated program.. but that's still doable...
Since TSI is located in practically the center of the LA area, they will take drop ins... Flashing the ECU's Memory takes around 20 minutes, and checking everything out before you go home will proabbly take 40 minutes, so yea. i would assume you can get this all done within an hour and hang around and chat..
TSI is working on an update for their website that will include all the necessary information that they have seen (what i have posted...) and for those people that STILL dont believe a word i've said.. a dyno chart. and technical writeup on the why we're seeing these cut backs in power, and what to expect from the ECU mod...
i just hope that people realize that the ECU isnt the magical key that unlocks the superduper-plasma-ion-kryptonite-energy source that's secretly hidden in our VQ, but it will definately help everyone in getting that extra power, helping fuel economy (by making the engine run more efficient) and getting good gain throughout the RPM band and not just PEAKing hp spikes somewhere...
now.. if we can just reachout and touch that one friendly and gracious Automatic Z owner that would help TSI and the whole Z community out by sending us your ECU for just two weeks so we can get the core program downloaded... i believe that will seal the deal for completeing the first ever US-Spec ECU mod for this car!! exciting!
now.. after saying all of this... hopefully you have a better understanding of why we're going to release 1 generic (but yet still very good power-gaining) ecu program... (for sure, those people who want to take it up a notch and add some Bam Sauce, custom tuning can and will be available for a Not-yet-determined tuning fee.... not too shabby for those Race Teams out there. *cough* *cough*....
oh yes.. one more thing.. the higher the octane level, expect to see some very nice gains.. you lucky bastards on the east coast...
An upgraded (but yet still conservative) fuel/air program on my car is yielding ~7hp with everything on the car STOCK... the 8hp gain you might be hearing about was with the East Coast Z race team or what not, and those codes have not yet been implimented with my Z... there is still room for improvements...
TechnoSquare has made a set of prototype downpipes that have eliminated the cat, stock size (~2.25") and drove with it for about 20 minutes, so far no CEL... the car is definately running/pulling better than before... the idea is that there is room in the car's program to get bigger gains with new down pipes.... The flanges and entire pipes are made from scratch. Tadashi took it to the near by Bosch Dyno and said it definally made some HP gains, he hasnt told me the numbers yet.. but its in addition to the ECU tuning... so ~7 + X... It's not much louder than stock either, as reported.
I'm waiting for a few key components to get shipped to the tuner shop, mainly exhaust/intake setup(s) and THEN do the big change in the ECU with a more aggressive tuning...
i understand the need to a 'solid' STOCK Z fuel program so i'll be trying to get that finalized... before all the other mods.....
we will be doing a flow bench test set with several intake setups to see which one yields the best CFM flow rates...
1. Stock air box
2. Full Injen setup with injen filter
3. just the JWT pop charger
4. Upper Injen Piping with JWT popcharger
with those data points, we'll probably make our own intake piping to get highest velocity possible...
one of the drawbacks of tuning the ECU is that it takes so long to flash it and everyone has to be really careful around the car when it's getting flashed.... One power surge or computer lockup, and your ECU is pretty much dead... thats due to the REALLY slow xfer rate of the programmer attachment...
5/9/03
We got some of the parts for the exhaust in.
we're going to try two different Ypipes... One 2.5" and one 2.25". It also has a set of pipes for between the "Y" pipe and muffler session. Then a Magnaflow exhaust... its more of a prototype exhaust system that an associate of StrictlyZ sent them. but its just to test what happens with a full exhaust...
On a really really neat note: We think we have found another ignition map that makes a huge difference. My Tuner changed it around and with traction control off, the car fishtails like crazy, much easier than before... and the throttle response is much more crisp....
5/12/03
We felt that the Magnaflow exhaust will not work any better than stock, so we abandoned the idea.. from installing it and running it for a while, its appears to be WORSE than stock...
here's the kicker..
We're done with the programming.
Conserning the ignition map and fuel maping. we got the ratio to around 12.5 air fuel and +40 degrees timing. He said 40 is a bit much, so he's going to retard it little. Stock is 25-26 degrees (I think). =) The main changes to the fuel/air program is to the top end of the RPM band, stock is around 10.5 and we leaned it out a bit to the end result of 12.5
NO CEL with the Test pipes (which will go on sale soon as well, along with a tuned Ypipe to go along with the test pipes as a option)
Tadashi claims that the stock airbox is a very good free flowing intake, possibly even better with a velocity stack addon would beat all the other intakes... they are planning to make that soon.
More info about the infamous 'dialing back' of power...
the deal is that the stock ecu bases some of its fuel/air input through the oxygen sensors in the car. The computer will try to follow the pre-set map from the factory. and uses feedback from the o2 sensors to do minor adjustments to the ignition/fuel mapping. So when you put the new intake system (aka Injen) the computer senses much more air flow than the stock mapping so, with this happening, the computer goes to the feedback value that's stored in the fuel/ignition timing maps to try to put it back stock levels.. which means.. the car is inputting RETARDATION in the timing map. its' taking away the ability for the engine to fire with the leaner air from the higher flowing intake.. so we're just removing/reducing that feedback value.. if you dont believe me.. Tadashi will post a full technical report later on at his company's website.
The modified ECU program will be released as a 'general' program. it will ADAPT to your mods and will allow the mods you put on your car to get a consistant power gains over time, w/o the ECU retardning the power back.... So, with that. this ECU program will work with a bone stock Z, a slightly modified Z, and/or fully decked out intake/plenum/header/cat/ypipe/catback'd Z too....
For boost applications, when they become available, they will have a program for that as well.
If you can find a spare ECU, TechnoSquare can make that computer to work with your Z.
5/13/02
Ha! this just getting better....
TechnoSquare went to get the dyno tune the car again, and found out that he accidently switched the timing and fuel maps around this past tune session... and lost alot of power.... which raised eyebrows...(and skipped a few hearts)...
We now realize that there are TWO fuel/TWO timing maps in the ECU. One set if for pre-VTC operation, and one is for VTC switch over. aka.. VTEC.. Variable Timing Control... just like a Honda... the boys at Nissan implimented a hard-core timing control program, which might explain the severe retardation of the ignition with intake mods... they got everything figured out.. so back to the dyno again later...
and.. we might be able to squeeze a few more ponies from the secondary timing mappings...5/14/03
(repost and in-reply to a great question that everyone should understand)
TSI (TechnoSquareInc.) CAN generate unique tweaked programs for specific modifications, thats not the problem.. the problem is, finding that correct map that will make good power for each mod... now there are what, four different intakes out there on the market, let alone five different exhaust systems... to have the man power to put out almost 20 different ecu mappings, each one having to be specifically tuned. i understand that would be optimal, but thats just not really the best business scense, when 1 generic program will allow ALL these mods take benefit of a modified fuel/ignition timing changes. its not a stupid question, TSI just doesnt think its worth the phyiscal man hours to do such a thing... they have the program now at a point where the fuel/air ratio with the correct ignition timing will take advantage of ALL modifications done after the ECU is put on.. remember that feedback loop value i was talking about before? well by changing that value and limiting how the car tries to retard the timing, the 'changes' the ecu will try to do stops at a certain point and after its reached it 'equilibrium' of adjustments and you'll get constistant power gains rather than these flucuating dyno graphs we've seen from dynoing at time of mod and say, four monthes later...
If you pick up headers down the line, or pickup a full catback. the ECU will know this, and you'll still be benefiting from the ECU.... Now, say you go Boost, like i will intend do. (or NOS) THEN that will be a slightly different story where TSI will have to goback and redo a completely different (and probably a custom job at first) to get the correct retardation of the timing and a slightly richer fuel map than the Naturally Aspirated program.. but that's still doable...
Since TSI is located in practically the center of the LA area, they will take drop ins... Flashing the ECU's Memory takes around 20 minutes, and checking everything out before you go home will proabbly take 40 minutes, so yea. i would assume you can get this all done within an hour and hang around and chat..
TSI is working on an update for their website that will include all the necessary information that they have seen (what i have posted...) and for those people that STILL dont believe a word i've said.. a dyno chart. and technical writeup on the why we're seeing these cut backs in power, and what to expect from the ECU mod...
i just hope that people realize that the ECU isnt the magical key that unlocks the superduper-plasma-ion-kryptonite-energy source that's secretly hidden in our VQ, but it will definately help everyone in getting that extra power, helping fuel economy (by making the engine run more efficient) and getting good gain throughout the RPM band and not just PEAKing hp spikes somewhere...
now.. if we can just reachout and touch that one friendly and gracious Automatic Z owner that would help TSI and the whole Z community out by sending us your ECU for just two weeks so we can get the core program downloaded... i believe that will seal the deal for completeing the first ever US-Spec ECU mod for this car!! exciting!
now.. after saying all of this... hopefully you have a better understanding of why we're going to release 1 generic (but yet still very good power-gaining) ecu program... (for sure, those people who want to take it up a notch and add some Bam Sauce, custom tuning can and will be available for a Not-yet-determined tuning fee.... not too shabby for those Race Teams out there. *cough* *cough*....
oh yes.. one more thing.. the higher the octane level, expect to see some very nice gains.. you lucky bastards on the east coast...
05-14-2003, 09:20 PM
#3
5/17/03
Just got back from TechnoSquare inc after meeting up with the head engineer, and Yuichi of StrictlyZ.com.. We decided to meet up and have some good idea storming and see the program first hand in the final stages... also got to get some good looks with a G35Coupe, which one of my UCLA alumni friends that came with me...
G35C's intake design has a huge resonator box before the throtte body, and two main air inlets to the filter, unlike our one big hole to the stock air box... the G35C's intake box is very very restrictive, and thats why we think the HP difference btwn the 350z and the G are....
I got to drive my car finally.. and MAN! holy bejeezus. it just keeps pulling and pulling all the way to redline!!!! We had installed a prototype filter on the car (basically a 6inch base velocity stacked K&N filter and it seemed quite nice, but still doesnt have the flow characteristics of what we're looking for... Techno is going to build a complete enclosed Air box from scratch.... the test pipes were a barely noticeable noise increase.. and the Ypipe gave it a good exhaust tone... This car is finally where it should be... preliminary bosch dyno numbers are fantastic on the top end, where our car is suffering... we are getting a nice moderate gain through out ALL the rpm band, with a peak HP gain when the two Variable timing maps switch over.. and i'm talking double digits... i was all smiles... the 'official' dynojet chart: next week...
which brings me to this.. since its getting near the end of the program stages, we still need those thoughtful souls out there to help us out... not only do we need that automatic Z for the ECU (and i think i just found one) we need an Enthusiast Z, and Performance Z, ECU to get the complete set... i.e. gotta catch em all to get this program sucessfully compelted and benefit everyone... we just want to be sure that the different ECUs arent that much different than My Track, or Yuichi's Base... come on guys... if you want mods for this car, you gotta put some effort into it!!!! (if interested PM me)
Pricing will be determined asap and we will be doing a group buy for the first group at intro pricing...
well.. i'm pretty happy today.. icant wait for the final Ypipe and air box designs.... which will also be available for purchase....
5/22/03
It seems that Nissan labeled their wiring harness with the ECU code. We notice the serial number on the wiring harness IS THE SAME NUMBER AS THE ECU CODE.
This makes it easy to find out what program it has in each car w/o the work of pulling out the ECU.
It's basically the last 5 digits. In the pictures, you can see 24105 CD0000. CD0000 is MY ECU program code.
check it out... this is quick and easy.. please just email me your Code and Model Z... TechnoSquare cant do it alone ... we need the Z community's help...
*i will be out of town on business until 5/28, please note all replies to Email and PMs will be until i get back.
also.. please READ the previous posts.. they answer ALOT of questions people are posting... *
5/29/03
TechnoSquare ECU Dyno Charts! Yay!
clicky:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=31098
in a nutshell with just the ECU as the modification....
PEAK @6200: 7 hp gain over stock
PEAK @6200: 7 ft/lb torque gain over stock
MidRange @5200: 12 hp gain over stock
MidRange @5200: 11 ft/lb torque gain over stock
more dynos to come...
6/8/03
Good news for AutoMagic Drivers... cant splurge all the details yet but.. woo hoo.. its time to smile... found out something very interesting about the differences between Autos and Sticks. Didnt mean to be such a tease...
Just got back from TechnoSquare inc after meeting up with the head engineer, and Yuichi of StrictlyZ.com.. We decided to meet up and have some good idea storming and see the program first hand in the final stages... also got to get some good looks with a G35Coupe, which one of my UCLA alumni friends that came with me...
G35C's intake design has a huge resonator box before the throtte body, and two main air inlets to the filter, unlike our one big hole to the stock air box... the G35C's intake box is very very restrictive, and thats why we think the HP difference btwn the 350z and the G are....
I got to drive my car finally.. and MAN! holy bejeezus. it just keeps pulling and pulling all the way to redline!!!! We had installed a prototype filter on the car (basically a 6inch base velocity stacked K&N filter and it seemed quite nice, but still doesnt have the flow characteristics of what we're looking for... Techno is going to build a complete enclosed Air box from scratch.... the test pipes were a barely noticeable noise increase.. and the Ypipe gave it a good exhaust tone... This car is finally where it should be... preliminary bosch dyno numbers are fantastic on the top end, where our car is suffering... we are getting a nice moderate gain through out ALL the rpm band, with a peak HP gain when the two Variable timing maps switch over.. and i'm talking double digits... i was all smiles... the 'official' dynojet chart: next week...
which brings me to this.. since its getting near the end of the program stages, we still need those thoughtful souls out there to help us out... not only do we need that automatic Z for the ECU (and i think i just found one) we need an Enthusiast Z, and Performance Z, ECU to get the complete set... i.e. gotta catch em all to get this program sucessfully compelted and benefit everyone... we just want to be sure that the different ECUs arent that much different than My Track, or Yuichi's Base... come on guys... if you want mods for this car, you gotta put some effort into it!!!! (if interested PM me)
Pricing will be determined asap and we will be doing a group buy for the first group at intro pricing...
well.. i'm pretty happy today.. icant wait for the final Ypipe and air box designs.... which will also be available for purchase....
5/22/03
It seems that Nissan labeled their wiring harness with the ECU code. We notice the serial number on the wiring harness IS THE SAME NUMBER AS THE ECU CODE.
This makes it easy to find out what program it has in each car w/o the work of pulling out the ECU.
It's basically the last 5 digits. In the pictures, you can see 24105 CD0000. CD0000 is MY ECU program code.
check it out... this is quick and easy.. please just email me your Code and Model Z... TechnoSquare cant do it alone ... we need the Z community's help...
*i will be out of town on business until 5/28, please note all replies to Email and PMs will be until i get back.
also.. please READ the previous posts.. they answer ALOT of questions people are posting... *
5/29/03
TechnoSquare ECU Dyno Charts! Yay!
clicky:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=31098
in a nutshell with just the ECU as the modification....
PEAK @6200: 7 hp gain over stock
PEAK @6200: 7 ft/lb torque gain over stock
MidRange @5200: 12 hp gain over stock
MidRange @5200: 11 ft/lb torque gain over stock
more dynos to come...
6/8/03
Good news for AutoMagic Drivers...
cant splurge all the details yet but.. woo hoo.. its time to smile... found out something very interesting about the differences between Autos and Sticks. Didnt mean to be such a tease...
05-15-2003, 06:49 AM
#7
UPDATE
5/15/03
Tuning Images...
The exhausts we tried on the Z..
STOCK is far left, then the Magnaflow one we didnt like, and then the full racing single canister...which was way too loud..
(the Ypipe, the Racing Canister and the Magnaflow exhausts were sent to TSI from another company...... TSI will be releasing their own Ypipe Design.. these were just used for testing purposes.)
5/15/03
Tuning Images...
The exhausts we tried on the Z..
STOCK is far left, then the Magnaflow one we didnt like, and then the full racing single canister...which was way too loud..
(the Ypipe, the Racing Canister and the Magnaflow exhausts were sent to TSI from another company...... TSI will be releasing their own Ypipe Design.. these were just used for testing purposes.)
Last edited by Chebosto; 05-15-2003 at 07:18 AM.
Trending Topics
05-15-2003, 06:55 AM
#8
If you havent seen the Pre-Cat removal/Test Pipe Replacements..
check here:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=28580
check here:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=28580
06-12-2003, 12:41 PM
#15
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE
6/12/03
The time frame for an offical launch should be around the first week of July for 350z Stick & Auto, ~Mid-July for G35Coupe Stick & Auto.
the Automatic Zs & Gs are getting the full treatment this week... all beta testers have been acquired (thank you for your interest), and StrictlyZ.com will be handling the sales...TechnoSquare will have a FAQ/Info webpage launched soon.. they're doing the final editing of the content...
Im so happy that its been going well and everyone has been excited about it.... i would like to Personally thank everyone for their positive/encouraging comments...
--Cheston
6/12/03
The time frame for an offical launch should be around the first week of July for 350z Stick & Auto, ~Mid-July for G35Coupe Stick & Auto.
the Automatic Zs & Gs are getting the full treatment this week... all beta testers have been acquired (thank you for your interest), and StrictlyZ.com will be handling the sales...TechnoSquare will have a FAQ/Info webpage launched soon.. they're doing the final editing of the content...
Im so happy that its been going well and everyone has been excited about it.... i would like to Personally thank everyone for their positive/encouraging comments...
--Cheston
06-19-2003, 11:36 AM
#16
Update 6/19/03
interesting results.. did a few dyno pulls with the ECU alone and the Injen CAI... gained another 4rwhp ontop of the normal ECU gains by it self. compare this to just a slap on velocity stacked cone filter with a 9 inch base -> 3inch diameter velocity stack (similar to Jwt pop charger, we had gained only 2 peak over just the ECU program alone...)
we tested the prototype exhaust system that a company mailed to us.. Zero gains with the Ypipe alone, Zero Gains with the full catback... either this exhaust system we're testing really sucks or the the stock exhaust is very well made...
interesting results.. did a few dyno pulls with the ECU alone and the Injen CAI... gained another 4rwhp ontop of the normal ECU gains by it self. compare this to just a slap on velocity stacked cone filter with a 9 inch base -> 3inch diameter velocity stack (similar to Jwt pop charger, we had gained only 2 peak over just the ECU program alone...)
we tested the prototype exhaust system that a company mailed to us.. Zero gains with the Ypipe alone, Zero Gains with the full catback... either this exhaust system we're testing really sucks or the the stock exhaust is very well made...
07-27-2003, 12:02 PM
#17
Update
7/27/03
Yesterday i took the liberty in paying tadashi a visit, getting a heads up on the conditions of the ECUs for the G35C Auto/Manual and the Auto Version 350Z ecus.
the Auto versions are going to be released soon, still no definate time frame, but the G35Coupe M/T version will release first week of august.
interesting tidbits i found out about the NISMO / AEM CAI..
the AEM cai will make hp on the dyno, BUT its is having trouble getting some HP when driving.. Due to the location of its filter inside the fenderwall.. air from the front of the car doesnt get to it... the stagnation point from the front of the car stays there and feeds into the radiator intake hole area only... so when the car is driving air flow around the fender sees little pressurization, so intake temp shoots up.... the car is very very sensitive for intake temperature, and if the filter isnt getting pressurized air flow of new cooler air. its robbing the power...
a work around is to remove that plastic barrier/panel that separates the inlet of the nose and the fender sides behind the front bumper... this way, when driving you're forcing air into that region.. hence Injen is getting some good numbers when driving, since that filter sits right smack dab into the stagnation zone....
another side note: my 'special' project is done... and freakin' A. its looks GREAT.... keep your eyes peeled... we're trying to make it into several magazines for the ECU and one big national mag for the 'special' project.
Also a few members might have expereienced some crap out of the ECU when taking the Z on the track and taking high speed turns.. if you experienced this, this might be the cause of the throttle body sensor failing and sending the ECU to goto fail safe mode and rev no higher than 3k.. this is due to the repetitive vibration on the tb sensor, and in the CD000, and CD0001 ECUs, this will auto trip the fail sensor codes in the ECU... it only needs to sense this bad vibration once and it will go to limp mode... the G forces of the vibrations are telling the ECU that the TB is failing.. the CD002 version ECU has implimented a new code that senses the vibrations ,but will only trip the ECU for a TB fail if the vibrations are severe and look for multiple occurances instead of just a 1 time deal before sending the ECU to fail safe.
hope this clears some issues up for those road/autox ing the Z..
--Cheston
7/27/03
Yesterday i took the liberty in paying tadashi a visit, getting a heads up on the conditions of the ECUs for the G35C Auto/Manual and the Auto Version 350Z ecus.
the Auto versions are going to be released soon, still no definate time frame, but the G35Coupe M/T version will release first week of august.
interesting tidbits i found out about the NISMO / AEM CAI..
the AEM cai will make hp on the dyno, BUT its is having trouble getting some HP when driving.. Due to the location of its filter inside the fenderwall.. air from the front of the car doesnt get to it... the stagnation point from the front of the car stays there and feeds into the radiator intake hole area only... so when the car is driving air flow around the fender sees little pressurization, so intake temp shoots up.... the car is very very sensitive for intake temperature, and if the filter isnt getting pressurized air flow of new cooler air. its robbing the power...
a work around is to remove that plastic barrier/panel that separates the inlet of the nose and the fender sides behind the front bumper... this way, when driving you're forcing air into that region.. hence Injen is getting some good numbers when driving, since that filter sits right smack dab into the stagnation zone....
another side note: my 'special' project is done... and freakin' A. its looks GREAT.... keep your eyes peeled... we're trying to make it into several magazines for the ECU and one big national mag for the 'special' project.
Also a few members might have expereienced some crap out of the ECU when taking the Z on the track and taking high speed turns.. if you experienced this, this might be the cause of the throttle body sensor failing and sending the ECU to goto fail safe mode and rev no higher than 3k.. this is due to the repetitive vibration on the tb sensor, and in the CD000, and CD0001 ECUs, this will auto trip the fail sensor codes in the ECU... it only needs to sense this bad vibration once and it will go to limp mode... the G forces of the vibrations are telling the ECU that the TB is failing.. the CD002 version ECU has implimented a new code that senses the vibrations ,but will only trip the ECU for a TB fail if the vibrations are severe and look for multiple occurances instead of just a 1 time deal before sending the ECU to fail safe.
hope this clears some issues up for those road/autox ing the Z..
--Cheston
Last edited by Chebosto; 07-27-2003 at 01:18 PM.
08-03-2003, 04:27 PM
#18
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Originally posted by Chebosto
Update
Also a few members might have expereienced some crap out of the ECU when taking the Z on the track and taking high speed turns.. if you experienced this, this might be the cause of the throttle body sensor failing and sending the ECU to goto fail safe mode and rev no higher than 3k.. this is due to the repetitive vibration on the tb sensor, and in the CD000, and CD0001 ECUs, this will auto trip the fail sensor codes in the ECU... it only needs to sense this bad vibration once and it will go to limp mode... the G forces of the vibrations are telling the ECU that the TB is failing.. the CD002 version ECU has implimented a new code that senses the vibrations ,but will only trip the ECU for a TB fail if the vibrations are severe and look for multiple occurances instead of just a 1 time deal before sending the ECU to fail safe.
hope this clears some issues up for those road/autox ing the Z..
--Cheston
Update
Also a few members might have expereienced some crap out of the ECU when taking the Z on the track and taking high speed turns.. if you experienced this, this might be the cause of the throttle body sensor failing and sending the ECU to goto fail safe mode and rev no higher than 3k.. this is due to the repetitive vibration on the tb sensor, and in the CD000, and CD0001 ECUs, this will auto trip the fail sensor codes in the ECU... it only needs to sense this bad vibration once and it will go to limp mode... the G forces of the vibrations are telling the ECU that the TB is failing.. the CD002 version ECU has implimented a new code that senses the vibrations ,but will only trip the ECU for a TB fail if the vibrations are severe and look for multiple occurances instead of just a 1 time deal before sending the ECU to fail safe.
hope this clears some issues up for those road/autox ing the Z..
--Cheston