I am now having to rebuild my 3.5 diff. for the third time since installing the ATS Carbon LSD, the first time the installer replaced the side bearing, seals and setup the diff to spec this setup lasted around 4000km before it started howling, I took it back the diff installer and he just shrugged is shoulders saying the mods on the car where causing the problem ie to much torque through the rear wheels (APS TT approx 400rwhp). So I purchased new bearings, seals, crown wheel and pinion for the full rebuild, I decided to use another diff/gearbox specialist who had built many drag and track cars diff's, after stripping down the pumpkin he said it was full of gunk and sludge which he suggested cause the wear on the bearings and gears he also suggested to replace the crushed washer with and solid bush to prevent pinion end play, which may have been caused by the higher HP of the motor. Anyway to cut a long story short this rebuild lasted 6000km before it started whining and howling, the installer said it's the new fancy carbon LSD causing all the wear and tear from the carbon getting into the bearings and gears acting like a grinding paste, I told him I've been changing the oil very 3000Km as per ATS recommendations, he is at a lost to what is causing the eary failures.

Question to all ATS LSD owners, how many miles since your install, what power are putting through the diff and how is it running ( I mean whining gear/bearing type noises not the LSD popping type sounds, which the ATS is very smooth in its action). Do you think all the carbon gunk created by the LSD to be causing the early failure? I do track the car and really love the way the ATS LSD works in putting the power the road, so do I replace the ATS LSD with a Quaife ATB LSD?

 

Anyone got any idea's whats killing my diff, is it the ATS LSD as per my installer's opinion which sound bullsh#t to me?

Cheers

 

sounds like your installer.....

I've yet to sell so much as a set of replacement disks for these diffs, and have sold quite a few....many on cars making significantly more power than yours

 

Raising it from the dead. Any other owners experiencing the same issue as this is occuring to more than one owner that I know of.

I had similar issues to the above and rebuilt the diff numerours times (multiple installers). Got fed up replaced with a Cusco RS and and never had an issue again. Have close to 2 years on the Cusco RS with no issues.

I really want to go back to the ATS as it is so much nicer to drive with.

 

I have installed 3 LSD's into Z's

The 1st was back in 2002 when I installed the 1st ever 350 Cusco made into my sons race car for the Bathurst 24 Hr race. The diff O'heated in practice because I was running too small a diff cooler.

Between practice sessions I rebuilt the diff & fitted a bigger cooler.

The car did 23hrs in the race before a crash & when we stripped the car down for rebuild the diff was perfect. It's still in the car and no whine or problems.

I then fitted a Kaaz diff to a customers car & while I have lost track of that car I had no reported complaints.

About 4 years ago I fitted a ATS carbon unit to Murrays car & set it up the same way as I had done the others with regards to bearing preload & clearances. at this same time a 3.9 ring & pinion was installed

After about 6 weeks the diff started whining. When checking the pinion preload I found that this had changed to be much looser.
As I thought I may have stuffed up this install even though deep down I failed to see how, I sent the diff out to a well known expert for a rebuild.

He would not rebuild the diff with the 3.9 ring pinion as he said it had wear on it from the whining and said that I had set the diff up poorly.
I supplied a new 3.9 ring set & all the bearings & seals ect for him as I felt obligation to Murray.

The Transmission experts diff lasted about the same time as my rebuild (about 6 weeks) before it started to whine. This time we pulled it straight away as I did not any wear on the 2nd ring set.
While this outcome made me feel better & that maybe I wasn't a dumb ***, I did feel bad for Murray and gave him std pumpkin I had lying around.

I also supplied the OP his pumpkin for use as a rebuild unit so there would be no down time with his car off the road.
I learnt later that he suffered the same problem with his ATS.

A good friend of mine last year fitted a Nismo LSD & did not have a service manual & I gave him all the factory specs. He has had no problems.

My advise is stick with the Cusco

 

I'm just surprised there has been no reports in the US. I actually spoke to one owner in the US who predominately races his Z a while back and had the same issues.

I rang ATS nearly 2 years ago and they denied all knowledge but did confirm that there was a revision in the ATS unit but indicated this was for noise and not wear.

I just find that the Cusco RS works well but tight and twisty back streets I find the unlock and lock of the RS unsettles the car.

Was going to look in to the Quaife ATB LSD but most of the US guys favour the plated diff but again this could be for varying reasons.

 

There are some modification made on the internal discs in 2007.

http://www.ppi-ats.com/LSD/Carbon_LSD2.html

 

This seems to be a design flaw. What about the people that have spent 1200+ dollars on there carbon lsd. Are they going to be provided upgraded clutch plates?

 

Turbotoy

That's a good question and yes I think they should or at lease provide the upgrade discs at a hugely discounted price. Having to rebuilt my differential three time each time replacing the bearings, seals, crown wheel and pinion plus assembly costs was expensive approximately AUS$2000.00 each time and basically I gave up, these LSD are for sponsored race team and not for the do it yourself sports car enthusiast.

 

well the last paragraph from that website says it all.

● Huge reduction of iron particles
● Longer life of the LSD oil (your oil change cycle for the Carbon LSD becomes the same as for a metal LSD)
● Prevention of a negative impact on the locking performance due to the change in the oil temperature
● Prevention of early wear of the bearings and final gears
● Prevention of backlush change

David let me know if you will be persuing a replacement.

So much for them telling me it makes no difference !!

 

I feel cheated and disappointed, these LSD's were suposed to be the ants pants of LSD's for the 350Z. So Adam Z1 what the cost of a new updated replacement disc pack?

 

Out of the 12 internal discs (6 carbon and 6 metal) these diffs use, there was no change on the carbon discs. ATS made modifcations on the metal discs only. The disks are sold in pairs - price of 2 metal discs (109mm diameter for 350Z LSD) is $39.00. To replace them all you would need three sets, so total is $117, and air shipping from Japan to the buyer is $28.00.

 

Maybe the website is wrong but it implies that the carbon chips were also changed. Look at the highlighted text. "If" the carbon discs are the same as ours how do we know what condition the chips are in considering that LSD carbon plates were experiencing excessive wear? This would mean that the both the metal and carbon plates both need to be replaced. I suspect that this cost will far exceed the quoted price above.

2) Big improvement from a special coating

The “Carbonitriding” coating achieves the optimum balance between the carbon chips on the disks and the surface of metal disks, which will result in excellent longevity of the life of your metal disks.

Our new metal disk has two grooves on the surface in order to eliminate any dust particles. With the grooves, particles are efficiently removed thus will not contribute excessive friction any longer.

The two factors above that contribute to the effectiveness:
● Huge reduction of iron particles
● Longer life of the LSD oil (your oil change cycle for the Carbon LSD becomes the same as for a metal LSD)
● Prevention of a negative impact on the locking performance due to the change in the oil temperature
● Prevention of early wear of the bearings and final gears
● Prevention of backlush change

 

Clutch Plates A - Metal plates with groves
Clutch Plates B - Plates with Carbon Chips

There is a overhaul kit Part Number: R7A1360 which is includes 6 Type A plates and 6 type B plates.

Adam what price can you get this overhaul kit for?

Do they confirm that this solution will resolve all previous issues or does it mean that the diff will need to be rebuilt every 10,000 km's instead of 5,000 kms that we are experiencing

 

I really could not say for sure - I will check on that part # though. I asked the person who used to run ATS USA back many years ago, and his reply was what I posted above

 

This is what I was told:



"There was not any change on the carbon disc.

The current metal disc A should not produce as much particles as the previous one. However, if the driver does not manage the oil, the same problem could take place. The notion that if you change the oil every 3,000km everything is fine is not entirely correct. First, there are some variations in oils and I do not think people in Australia used ATS gear oil. As you know, the differential oil temprature of the 350Z goes up very easily. If you do not pay attention to the oil temprature, oil deteriorates very easily and causes the friction problem."

Price for the R7A13-60 is $705.00 plus $55.00 air shipping

 

I cannot comment on David above but for my self and Murray the other ATS owner we used ATS oil as I imported in quite a few tins of it (not cheap). In my case I had the additional finned cover and was only ever used in spirted street driving with no auto cross or track work.

Overhaul kit doesn't appear to bring the diff inline with the metal plated LSD's life and service properties

Looks like the quaife it is then. Shoot me an email that has a very competative price that i cannot go past. Something that starts with "fr" and ends in "ee" would be perfect.

 

I'll email you mike, along with the other tracking # in a bit, just catching up on some paperwork

 

Trying to bring this thread back to life...

Has anyone had any experience with the revised carbon LSD from ATS?
http://www.ppi-ats.com/LSD/Carbon_LSD.html

And what is the difference between Super Silent LSD and Metal type LSD? I've read the website of ATS but I wanted to hear from experiences from experts here.

Thanks in advance.