The most RWHP you can get N/A?
09-21-2007, 02:06 PM
#81
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
Will - it really is hard to say. I've read that the differences to be anywhere from 5%, and can be as high as 20-25% (the Dynojet reading higher) but it really comes down to how the users set each dyno up.
On my particular runs, they were on pump gas and a very conservative tune, as the motor was still pretty new so we didn't want to go nuts. The next time it's on the dyno (soon!), we'll be running some race gas mixed in and really crank the timing to see what she does !
On my particular runs, they were on pump gas and a very conservative tune, as the motor was still pretty new so we didn't want to go nuts. The next time it's on the dyno (soon!), we'll be running some race gas mixed in and really crank the timing to see what she does !
Originally Posted by NoahzBurnt
I used a Cast iron LSX bowTie block stroked out to a 454 witha fully forged rotating assemby, aluminum heads and intake....all said and done it is 30 lbs lighter than my twin turbo Vq.....or about 73 pounds heavier than stock...an aluminum LS series should weigh in much less
Will
09-21-2007, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Resolute
Holy crap this thread is nuts. The OP was asking for practical output that can be made in a budget. I honestly don't have the answer for ya buddy, sorry. Adam has a nice engine making 300whp (I don't remember what kind of dyno, but maybe he'll post a link to the build) that doesn't need an entire engineering staff to tune it and rebuild it every weekend. That's about your best bet right now.
As far as what the VQ35DE can make in an all-out racing set-up. That's easy. The highest so far is 505 hp at 8500rpm as measured at the flywheel. Before anyone jumps down my throat, this is a racing engine with factory short block and dimensions, and everything else custom. These engines are built for RJN Motorsports to compete in the FIA GT Championship. This company also competes in the British GT Championship series, and is now committed to the German 24 race at Nürburgring Nordschleife called VLN for short. Here are the links to RJN, the UK Nissan cluib that follows their racing, and german link of the VLN race with some good shots of the RJN car:
http://www.rjnmotorsport.com/
http://www.thepitwall.com/
http://www.automobilsport.com/24h-nu...s---23559.html
The engine is made by a company called IES racing. The 505 bhp is unrestricted. It makes something like 470bhp restricted for the FIA racing series. They don't have an active website right now, which is a shame because they had some cool pics. They also made the engines for RJN's successful touring car run, using Nissan SR20's. IES also made the formula VQ30 engines for Nissan Infiniti's formula car racing program in Europe, and these engines had an unbelievable 10,000rpm rev limit. A picture and information about the new VQ35 they use was posted in the Nissan Sport Magazine, I believe two issues ago. David Muramoto was the author.
One gentleman in the UK has his own NA beast done, similar to Ritchie's car in Australia (now sold to someone else, but it's always going to be known as "Ritchie's Car"), by RJN's tuning using several Nismo parts and some IES engineering know-how. He is on this forum from time to time, but I don't know what his whp is. The link to the build and specs is here:
http://www.lustthenlove.com/Page5.htm
As far as the Nissan GT Series goes, that's a whole different animal. The GT300 cars have pretty tight restrictors that mandate power to be kept around 300 hp. The VQ35 was used because it is the largest displacement allowed for a non turbo, non AWD car that doesn't get penalized with larger restrictors. The GT300 Z would probably make less hp that Adam's engine to be honest. This is because the restrictors prohibit high hp figures at high rpm use with such a large size engine, so the tuning emphasis was on greater torque in the "breathable" rpm band with the restrictors in place, while allowing high rpm for gear ratio advantages on different tracks. The engine makes more torque than hp. The VQ35DE makes an unrestricted 450bhp when tuned for the NIssan Dakar Rally trucks. The older GT500 cars, before switching to V8 engines last season, used a VQ30DETT that was built around the standard VQ30's engine dimensions (same bore spacing, etc..) but was cast specifically for the GT series. The bore and stroke are not the same as the production engine block. The 3.0 liter block was used because GT rules required any FI engine over 3.0L to use smaller restrictors. 500bhp is the class limit, and this could be easily reached with two turbos and only 3.0 liters of displacement, so there was no need to move up to 3.5L and be forced to work with smaller restrictors in front of the turbos. The block was allowed to change bore and stroke as long as factory dimensions were used, along with many other allowances that make the series a good place for an enginner to work in. All of this info is from an article in Racecar Engineering that appeared in late 2004, interviewing the head engineer of NISMO Racing about their successful GT500 run and the series itself. I have the magazine still, but not with me, so I'm sorry not to publish the issue number right now. It's a good read.
Here is a link to some info on the racing series Nissan competes in, and some info is on the VQ engines used:
http://www.nissan-motorsports.com/EN..._VQ/index.html
You might notice that the VQ35 is not the same displacement as ours, it's actually 3.6 liters. this is allowed as long as block dimensions are the same and the maximum amount of variance is used. The same thing they did with the VQ30 for the GT500 cars.
Will
Edit: I guess the formula series is no longer the Nissan Infiniti formula series, but called the "World Series by Nissan", but I've also heard it called Formula Renault. I think it's the same chassis and engines, either way.
And the LeMans 24hr car that used a VQ 3.4 liters was also built by IES, and they had a cool picture of it on their website, when they still had one. When I get home, I might post it up. Neat looking engine.
As far as what the VQ35DE can make in an all-out racing set-up. That's easy. The highest so far is 505 hp at 8500rpm as measured at the flywheel. Before anyone jumps down my throat, this is a racing engine with factory short block and dimensions, and everything else custom. These engines are built for RJN Motorsports to compete in the FIA GT Championship. This company also competes in the British GT Championship series, and is now committed to the German 24 race at Nürburgring Nordschleife called VLN for short. Here are the links to RJN, the UK Nissan cluib that follows their racing, and german link of the VLN race with some good shots of the RJN car:
http://www.rjnmotorsport.com/
http://www.thepitwall.com/
http://www.automobilsport.com/24h-nu...s---23559.html
The engine is made by a company called IES racing. The 505 bhp is unrestricted. It makes something like 470bhp restricted for the FIA racing series. They don't have an active website right now, which is a shame because they had some cool pics. They also made the engines for RJN's successful touring car run, using Nissan SR20's. IES also made the formula VQ30 engines for Nissan Infiniti's formula car racing program in Europe, and these engines had an unbelievable 10,000rpm rev limit. A picture and information about the new VQ35 they use was posted in the Nissan Sport Magazine, I believe two issues ago. David Muramoto was the author.
One gentleman in the UK has his own NA beast done, similar to Ritchie's car in Australia (now sold to someone else, but it's always going to be known as "Ritchie's Car"), by RJN's tuning using several Nismo parts and some IES engineering know-how. He is on this forum from time to time, but I don't know what his whp is. The link to the build and specs is here:
http://www.lustthenlove.com/Page5.htm
As far as the Nissan GT Series goes, that's a whole different animal. The GT300 cars have pretty tight restrictors that mandate power to be kept around 300 hp. The VQ35 was used because it is the largest displacement allowed for a non turbo, non AWD car that doesn't get penalized with larger restrictors. The GT300 Z would probably make less hp that Adam's engine to be honest. This is because the restrictors prohibit high hp figures at high rpm use with such a large size engine, so the tuning emphasis was on greater torque in the "breathable" rpm band with the restrictors in place, while allowing high rpm for gear ratio advantages on different tracks. The engine makes more torque than hp. The VQ35DE makes an unrestricted 450bhp when tuned for the NIssan Dakar Rally trucks. The older GT500 cars, before switching to V8 engines last season, used a VQ30DETT that was built around the standard VQ30's engine dimensions (same bore spacing, etc..) but was cast specifically for the GT series. The bore and stroke are not the same as the production engine block. The 3.0 liter block was used because GT rules required any FI engine over 3.0L to use smaller restrictors. 500bhp is the class limit, and this could be easily reached with two turbos and only 3.0 liters of displacement, so there was no need to move up to 3.5L and be forced to work with smaller restrictors in front of the turbos. The block was allowed to change bore and stroke as long as factory dimensions were used, along with many other allowances that make the series a good place for an enginner to work in. All of this info is from an article in Racecar Engineering that appeared in late 2004, interviewing the head engineer of NISMO Racing about their successful GT500 run and the series itself. I have the magazine still, but not with me, so I'm sorry not to publish the issue number right now. It's a good read.
Here is a link to some info on the racing series Nissan competes in, and some info is on the VQ engines used:
http://www.nissan-motorsports.com/EN..._VQ/index.html
You might notice that the VQ35 is not the same displacement as ours, it's actually 3.6 liters. this is allowed as long as block dimensions are the same and the maximum amount of variance is used. The same thing they did with the VQ30 for the GT500 cars.
Will
Edit: I guess the formula series is no longer the Nissan Infiniti formula series, but called the "World Series by Nissan", but I've also heard it called Formula Renault. I think it's the same chassis and engines, either way.
And the LeMans 24hr car that used a VQ 3.4 liters was also built by IES, and they had a cool picture of it on their website, when they still had one. When I get home, I might post it up. Neat looking engine.
Great post Resolute. Wow look at that, 500 horsepower.....N/A as well.
I'll be damned....Perhaps that Angel dust I have been smoking isn't working so well. So let's recap : It is possible with the right budget to make 500 horsepower on this engine. Nobody here in the US has done it which does not make it impossible. Again you need certain parts to make the power: Lower new plenum, totally new upper manifold, large cams : 272 Intake 12.3mm lift/ 264 Exhaust 12mm lift will get you to 420 hp. These will idle around 1200rpm. Bigger cams are required to get to 500, and then it is a serious build for race gas only. The manifolds are where the power lies in the engine, more so than the heads. Here is the one of the parts required:
09-21-2007, 02:49 PM
#83
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ok - so you couldn't show it but waited till someone else did...congrats.
The last I had heard, the IES cars (I've read about them extensively) were in the mid 400's, hence why I posted what I did (about the VQ being topped out in the mid 400's) - if they are unrestricted now over 500 crank, that's terrific.
But let's not forget you're making some big claims of power into the 400's crank, and high 300's whp on pump gas - so we'll ask again, what car(s) is at this level? Not a "this is what it takes", but something a bit more substantial....
Hell, if you want to get generous with the math, and apply a customary correction factor to my build (12% is what many people 'typically' say is the variance between Dynojet and DD), and then estimate crank hp, I'd be in the low 400 level crank....but that's using some voodoo math to get it there.
The last I had heard, the IES cars (I've read about them extensively) were in the mid 400's, hence why I posted what I did (about the VQ being topped out in the mid 400's) - if they are unrestricted now over 500 crank, that's terrific.
But let's not forget you're making some big claims of power into the 400's crank, and high 300's whp on pump gas - so we'll ask again, what car(s) is at this level? Not a "this is what it takes", but something a bit more substantial....
Hell, if you want to get generous with the math, and apply a customary correction factor to my build (12% is what many people 'typically' say is the variance between Dynojet and DD), and then estimate crank hp, I'd be in the low 400 level crank....but that's using some voodoo math to get it there.
09-21-2007, 04:04 PM
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Dyno Dynamics dynos typically read lower than a Dynojet. Some have been modified to read like Dynojet 248 model so that the customer doesn't feel like his car is not performing well. There is a simple correction factor that a DD operator can add to your results to account for this. If this was not done to your DD dyno then it is making at least 365-370 flywheel horsepower, Z1. That is a lot of power N/A on pump gas for this motor and almost what the Nismo 380 RS makes! If you just add the upper and lower plenums, and some more aggressive cams then the Tomei's you are running then you will get to 400 or so N/A.
It looks like the Nismo Spec 2 cams are the largest available currently on the market or is their another brand offering a more aggressive grind? Nismo spec 2 cams: 284 intake 11mm lift / 268 exhaust 10.5mm lift. That is not enough lift to make 400 horsepower...you need 12mm +.
Here is a great link showing some powerful tuner Z cars:
http://www.jdm-option.com/eng/featur...2/z33_v35.html
It looks like the Nismo Spec 2 cams are the largest available currently on the market or is their another brand offering a more aggressive grind? Nismo spec 2 cams: 284 intake 11mm lift / 268 exhaust 10.5mm lift. That is not enough lift to make 400 horsepower...you need 12mm +.
Here is a great link showing some powerful tuner Z cars:
http://www.jdm-option.com/eng/featur...2/z33_v35.html
01-20-2009, 06:08 PM
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Here's a few pictures of the build in progress. I'll post with the engine in after Cosworth delivers the twin plenum. Seems a lot of skeptics on this forum and negative feedback to "enthusiasts" input.
01-20-2009, 09:27 PM
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