Thanks man for the dyno pulls. To me anyway, this proves that the exhaust does make power.

The only thing I'm unsure about is how the dyno results would have turned out had you had the exhaust on for a few hundred miles- and not reset the ECU.

 

I really hate to admit this and I'm probably gonna get flamed for saying this, but I have to side with Phillip at Injen on this one. 6 months is really a long time between dynos. Even with SAE correction there are too many factors that are introduced with time that can affect the dyno numbers...i.e. car mileage, dyno changes(as most of you know dynos are like cars, they need to be maintained and calibrated), weather(SAE correction can only do so much, ask JWT), etc. I can guarantee that if mcduck dynoed today without the borla his numbers would still be significantly different than his previous baselines. Time does that to things. You can pretty much ask any shop that has a dyno and they will tell you the same thing. Unfortunately guys I had to voice my opinion even though I know I'll probably gain a few enemies cause of it. As much as I LOVE this exhaust and would buy it again a million times over, I just can't swallow a 17hp gain. 10hp is believable and I'm sure that is what the Borla is giving us, but 17hp is just to good to be true.

Mcduck, thanks again for the dynos. It only proves that the Borla does make gains. As to the amount, I have to be skeptical ONLY because of the time in between dynos. Other than that, kudos to you and I hope you don't take my post the wrong way. I am still in the "I love this exhaust camp". And sorry guys, I take the scientific approach to everything, its the engineer in me.

If its any consolation, I'm buying the Borla headers.

Again this is my opinion. No need to argue about my opinion.

 

What about 3 weeks? I had my 5at baselined on 6/7/03. It had about 4650 miles at the time. I had my Borla installed today with around 4950 miles. I am dynoing again on 6/27/03. If I show the same results, will there still be a dispute?

 

Thanks for the info. It does appear that the exhaust makes power. How much? For some its little, others its a little more. I think the time an mileage are factors but its not that big a deal. I do know there are lots of factors with dynoing our car. One is the ecu reset. Did you do this on your first dyno run? Another is engine and oil temp. The car gains power on sequential runs until a certain point. We usually gauge it by the thermostat activating the cooling fans. Tire pressure and wear causes discrepancies as well. All in all like he said it is a comparison and he told us the influencing factors. So just leave it at that. If I did not love our stock exhaust, I would probably get the borla!

 

import, I want to argue about your opinion!!! j/k and I for one appreciate your need to rain on our parade... LOL.

I didn't dyno... I won't be dynoing... and I have the borla dual exhaust...

gotta say that I love the sound, definitely feel an increase in power...

but thanks mcduck for dynoing the car... much appreciated.

and phillip... oh, man you're killing me with the angled tips... don't know if that was to control the degrees of bend for the exhaust or what, but I was THIS close to buying the injen exhaust until I saw the pipes...

but love my borla!!! woohoo!!!

 

Its not too loud and not too quiet. Great masculine muscle car sound but not too intrusive when the widows are closed. Its exacly what I wanted as don't want an overloud stytem roaring in my ears at Highway speed.
Reminds me of an Alfa 164 performance exhaust designed by Ferrari I installed.
kinda reaches out and grabs ya

 

I agree to a degree that 3000 miles throws in a pretty big variable, especially on an almost new motor. Engines, transmissions, and gears will losen up a bit as they get through the initial wear period, and will often produce more HP from that break in/wear alone.

Not saying your noted gains are worthless, but there is a variable there that could affect the numbers a bit. That is even ignoring environmentals.

Now, 3000 miles on a motor with, say, 50,000 miles on it probably wouldn't be as big of a questionable factor.

If I was Injen, though, I don't think I'd be jumping in Leave the fighting over numbers to those economically uninterested among us.

EDIT: another comment to Injen. I wouldn't buy your exhaust due to the looks. Just my opinion, and I know some love it, but that seems to be the biggest complaint across the boards I read about your setup. I guess there is such an anti-rice look feeling out there that anything that reminds them of any over the top look (say, like the funny looking exhausts on Civics) turns some people trying to avoid looking like the crowd of ricer kids off. I don't really know what I'm trying to say exactly, but you may be leaving some sales for others like Borla to steal solely because of the angled look on what sounds to be a very nicely performing setup. *shrug*

 

Man, there is no winning on this board!! People beg for dynos, someone post them with all the factors, and many people takes shots at him.

I particularly like this comment some made, "I almost believe those #".

When people put information out trying to help others and you don't like the information, just ignore it.

MCDuck, thanks for you your effort, time, and money to do this. Glad you like it, and it made power for you.

 

Hahaha...MKZ just on your parade bro.

DITTO

 

I don't mean to imply that we don't appreciate seeing these dynos. I thank mcduck for doing them and posting them, and he did let us know the changes so that we can evaluate the true increases he saw. My only reason for posting what I did was to point out that there was some need to emphasis the caveat that is there when his numbers are looked at.

 

Yes, it is the sad truth of the internet world as I have said many times before. I am also a victim after posting my dynos of the borla exhaust. But I dont think anyone is discrediting mcducks time and effort. As a matter of fact, his effort is very much appreciated by everyone. And I strongly believe that his dyno is valid proof of gains. Its just that the time variable is to large to ignore and should be taken into consideration. Thats it...take it as you will, but it is no way a shot at mcduck.

 

My thoughts, if those were my dynos, I'd be pleased with the results. But, from my understanding about dynos and particularly for this car, I agree that the dynos have to be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm certain there is a power gain. I'm certain I like the sound. I'm certain I like the stock look. Exactly how much power gain is speculation. But, as metioned above, I think it's safe to say we get 10 hp +/- a few horses.

Of interest is that a low baseline dyno by McDuck resulted in a relatively high gain while a high baseline dyno by Importriders resulted in a relatively low gain. I'm beginning to think that the amount of power gain may somewhat depend upon how much the Z needs or doesn't need help from the exhaust.

McDuck, congrats on the dynos.

 

I've got a secret...........

 

.

 

thanks mcduck for the dyno.. I don't care how much milage, but the temperature does play a BIG role in dyno.. so you actually gained more than 10hp+ with your dyno, that is good enough for me...

The reason I bought the Borla is because it keeps the stock muffler configuration looks, and it does not look "ricey" like the other brand with the flared tips (my opinion).. Also the sound is awasome, not too loud, but just enough over the factory exhaust..

there are lots of exhaust out there for us, but Borla is the BEST priced of the bunch!!

 

sadly all someone has to do is introduce doubt and the rest will follow! very nice..thanks ingen! ( good selling point it if it works!)
but then again it could be a cop out ..dont you think Borla dyno'd your exhaust along with others to see if theirs was better..im guessing they are just as committed as you unless someone proves this not to be the case. So what gives in the end the better exhaust will be on more Z's. As they say may the best one win (whatever that means..who cares!)

 

McDuck, you RULE. Not because of the great results necessarily, but because you actually went out of your way to dyno the damn car with the exhaust on, and share it with us. Not many people have been willing to do that since the Duals came out.

With that out of the way, I have a few things to say.

1. I don't give a rats *** if its really 12whp or 17whp... it's all good to me, and I feel the difference, not to mention the monstrous sound, so I couldn't be happier with my Borla.

2. Phillip, no offense but Injen screwed this one up. For several reasons... one is this:

That's a quote from an email I've received from Injen on 4/7/03, regarding the ugly-*** tips of the exhaust. It's a big disappointment to many of us that there's only the riced-out version now.

That, combined with the fact that Borla came to market quicker, AND CHEAPER, made it a very easy choice. Not to mention it sounds sweet.

Don't mean to sound harsh here, but business is business. Maybe you guys could be a little more aggressive/responsive next time around.

-slay

 

A) Everyone, let's not start an agenda against Injen... honestly, my biggest beef with their system is the angled the pipes come out at. I think others have shown performance gains with their exhaust and that can't be disputed.

B) Thanks for the kind comments everyone.

C) I'd be happy to put the stock exhaust (or an Injen) back on my car and dyno if someone else will foot the bill this time!

D) I don't agree with the mileage argument people are throwing at my results. The car was well beyond break in at the time of the first dyno... and I drive the p!$$ out of my Z. I know it was good and loosened up by that time and I have experienced no apparent performance gains until the Borla went on.

E) I did make sure I used the same dyno for the test and was lucky enough to have the same tech working today. I guess there could have been "dyno maintenance" since then, but I don't think the numbers would have been thrown by much.

F) Maybe I got the one mutant Borla Exhaust or a killer install, just like webcarconnection got a great "out of the box" Z. Some luck factor here???

G) BOTTOM LINE... since January, I have invested in one performance upgrade... the Borla true dual exhaust. In that time, whether by Borla or divine blessing, I have gained almost 20rwhp, as shown by dynos and felt by my butt-dyno, and that makes me happy.

H) Paging Dr. Bonz... we gotta stop thinking alike... one day I'm going to pass you going the other way on the highway and think "Damn... was I just driving the other way????"

Peace everyone! Hope others have as good results as I did with my purchase.

 

Sweet! Looks good mcduck! I just got home and mine was sitting on the back porch I have to work all week so it will be Sunday before I put it on. Man this week is gonna suck. Watch out JP00SS i'm comin after you. Just a few more mods. Big props to 21st Century exhaust. I talked to them last Monday and she said it may be 2 weeks before they get more in. But I have it 8 days after I talk to them. Great service.

 

Agreed! The more data, the better for us.

Importriders, McDuck, thanks for going the extra mile by getting these expensive before and after dynos for the community. You gentlemen ROCK!