Wrong. A train is competition for air travel as opposed to only other airlines. They are both forms of travel. It is myopic because you are looking at the industry in a way segmented manner. Greddy's turbo system competes for your DOLLAR just like the Nimso S Tune suspension or even the freakin gas station. If you only see other turbo manuf. as your only competition you will go out of business and a highly doubt Greddy views the industry as you do. If your dollar doesn't go one place it will go another. ****, Greddy's turbos are competing with your local grocery store. It is about earning your dollar and nothing more, man.

 

No, you're applying to broad of a perspective here, and really big one I might add. I look at the market in a segmented way because why? Because the market is segmented. If you apply such a broad perspective to the situation then there really is only one market, and we would have clothing manufacturers advertising against car manufacturers advertising against the travel industry advertising against the PC industry advertising against the food industry.

True, but if Greddy was so worried about ATI's procharger then they would've released something by now. Seeing as how the Greddy's rep telling you that ATI runs their business differently from them is proof enough that Greddy considers them not a direct competitor, otherwise we'd have a twin turbo setup by now because Greddy wouldn't want ATI to snag a significant portion of the Z market from them.

 

droppin_gears: I have 2 of the RSX-S kits in stock right now. The quality is fantastic. As for the tune that comes in the emanage, I have not intalled one of these yet so i cannot speak for the tune in them. The only thing that I am unhappy with SO FAR wiht the RSX-S kit is that they passworded the base maps so you cant just work from there... this I looked at because I pulled the emanage out of one of the kits to log into it and see their maps.

One way I feel about it anyway, is that IF you DO have to retune... well either way its being done right and the hardware's physical setup is awesome. If you DO have to tune... well that sucks but its still better than puting in a fuel pressure riser and calling that a tune. As for the cybernation's kit dyno #'s... I looked at their site a while back and looked at their kits they have for all the Hondas. Did someone drill a bunch of big holes in their dyno rollers or what? I have my doubts that an UNTUNED honda, or any 4 banger for that matter, is holding live with over 400whp.

also dont forget that just cause a super charger can also bring your engine to the "ragged edge", a turbo will still make more HP at that edge. As I am more than sure you know but might not have been remembering, a supercharger can take anywhere from 20-50+ HP to turn.


raymanz: i have been in contact with greddy a few times, and I need to contact them one more time about some stuff before i make the final decision to put a ati on my z for a while. when i originally called to order my procharger they had pushed back the date, so then i decided that i would hold off and wait for a little more info from some guys i talk to at greddy. but now that the ati is 100% available i need to verify first that the greddy isnt just around the corner.

-charles
cj motorsports

 

As I said, I'm sure their build quality is superb, there have been no complaints on that field, just on the fuel tune that comes preprogrammed. It is better in the end for the user and the car to have a custom tune as earlier stated, but hell if a person wanted to do that, wouldn't they rather have a stand alone? Personally I'd like to be able to get the car running and then tune it on a backroad while having a friend drive, or drive and datalogging.

I am aware that the supercharger takes power from the engine to turn the pulley.

On the cybernation motorsports shop car, the stage 2 making 439 whp, it is holding together quite well. A new, stronger bottom end will do that for a little 2 liter =). They are actually predicting 700+ whp when they go to their stage 4 setup, we'll have to wait and see on that, kind of iffy on that one myself.

If no one was having problems with their greddy kits I'd be all for them, but even after speaking with greddy tech support they are still getting errors. As I stated before, I'm not much on turbo kits without intercoolers, but to each their own, I'll wait to see what their 350z kit puts out, and the problems if any, and the same for the competition. If/when I get a 350z I'll make my decision for aftermarket parts on the fellow 350z owners experiences, not what some guy will tell me on the other end of the phone at Greddy, HKS, Powerenterprise, ATI, etc.

 

You are starting to get it. There IS only one market. Yes the market is segmented but only how the company selling something segments it. It is not naturally segmented as you are implying. One huge second mover advantage that Greddy gets to take advantage of is learning from your competitions' mistakes and coming out with a better product. Also, people see more R&D coming from Greddy so they will be more secure in that purchase than from someone who just throws something out on the market. Also, you can only segment a market by needs/wants. The question has to be asked, do people want to create more power, or do they simply want a turbo? Do they want more power, or do they simply want a supercharger? I am sure a small percentage of people are loyal to one brand, technology, etc. but the majority want the best OPTION to accomplish their GOALS. Power is power however you get there.

And yes, many people have to sacrifice one thing to aquire another. I think you realize this. You can even look at this as opportunity cost. This is a more realistic perspective of your potential market, and yes, I was being slightly broad in my previous example to illustrate a concept.

 

You and I both know that 95% of mechanics and people that play with cars are out of their league when it comes to stand alones. The emanage does what it was meant to do excellent. IMHO the best piggy back available. Piggy backs do have several advantages... several. Some cars I see would be better off ditching their piggy backs and going full EMS, and vice versa. Each has their benefits tho for sure.

its not that i dont beleive you could make that much power... i just thought the whole use of "untuned" was inadequate given that if it wasnt tuned it would surely melt or crack a piston. maybe its just not FINE tuned yet. I am not gonna say that I think cybernation is full of it, but I certainly do wonder why each of their kits are making like 150whp over all their competitors.

and for now yea your right greddy does not YET offer the IC for the RSX-S, but they will shortly of course.

at any rate, super off topic now. feel free to PM me here.

-Charles
CJ Motorsports

 

Hi guys.
I have some experience with Greddy as company and as manufacturer.
I am dealing with Greddy stuff and don't like it everytime how they handle their business in the states.
I ordered a T78 Tubro Kit for my RX-7 FD and it came without Downpipe. I was pissed. The downpipe arrived and the Turbo blew oil through a gasket. A factory new Turbo.
Ok, doesn't matter. I made this thing work and it's badass and works sweet.
I'll go for the Greddy TD05 Kit for sure and look forward for that thing very much.
Power: the Greddy TD05 twin turbos produce 700hp in the 300ZX so why shouldn't they produce the same in the z?
I won't turn the boost that high because my z will be a daily driver. But I am sure the the Greddy kit with all the bolt-ons will outperform all the other kits.
We'll see

 

I hope you're not any type of business major.

 

Dom: To relate to your experience, I work on a lot of Toyota 3SGTE cars. We use greddy products a lot on these. I have a complaint that their stainless tubular manifold race kits do not use heavy enough pipe. I constantly have to repair these manifolds from stress cracking. However this does not apply to their NA-Turbo kits for Hondas/Acuras, and the Z. I am just talking about their race kits.

-Charles
CJ Motorsports

 

I'de still rather turbo than SC.

 

I am not any type of major any more. You know, if two people in business always agree, one of them is not needed. Do you feel entreprenurial today?

 

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, if two people in business don't agree then there is no business. :P

 

Marketing segment:
possessing some sort of homogeneuos characterisitic relating to its purchasing/consumption behavior, which is ultimately reflected in its repsonsiveness to marketing programs.

"Unless the organization is highly specialized and sells only to one buyer, it is not feasible to treat each potential customer as unique"

You guys made me search my attic and then books to find this - LOL. Anyway, FI is one market. Supercharger's and Turbochargers are similar means to the same end. They appeal to the same general segment.

BTW, anybody actually see something from a company other than Stillen, Greddy, Procharger?

Robert

 

You took me out of context. We aren't selling anything to each other. We are "in the same boat" or "on the same team" or "working for the same company." That was my implication.

Robert, thanks for the support, I always sold back my books. My GF kept hers but I may get my hand chopped off if I go rooting around in that stuff...

 

Funny, that's how I meant it. :P

 

Let me help you out with a more simple definition:

Market Segmentation - Aggregating prospective buyers into groups, or segments, that (1) have common needs and (2) will respond similarly to a marketing action.

Basically what you said... but this def. might allow other folks to understand it better.

For my marketing class last semester we were suppose to have a Toyota marketing consultant do a presentation on how they market their cars.

That guest speaker couldn't make it so as an alternative we got the Nissan consultant. I was happy and giggling like a school girl when I heard of the changes. It was awesome... we spent like almost a half hour talking about how they market their 350z and how the marketing team got to test the Z's out before they hit the market.

 

Then your comment doesn't make sense. The ones who have to agree are the ones doing business "at" each other rather than "with" each other. "At" being separate parties and "with" being the same party.

 

I've just scanned this thread and I haven't read anything about demand. Maybe greddy doesn't think the demand is great enough for them to move on their kit. The U.S. has a long-established history of marketing creating demand. Other countries and manufacturers have their own perspectives about when to move a product, and they don't get it from Harvard's Business School.

Stillen gambled on being 1st and API just had to modify one of its many setups to use on the Z. Greddy is waiting, Koni is waiting, I'm sure some other product developer is waiting, for what? Perceived demand, poor match of their product to the Z's specs? There could be a dozen different reasons for a company to hang back on introducing a new product for a brand new car.

How could NISMO wait 10-11 months to introduce their factory line of aftermarket parts? Riddle me this, oh wizards of business, why did NISMO wait? I am deadly serious about this, if anyone knows, I would like to hear the answer; no theories, no guesses, no B.S., just a straight answer. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHY?

Boomer

 

Derived Demand. Sales of the 350z are not enough for the foreign company to unleash their campaign on openly marketing their products.

Sure their will be consumers who are willing and have the ability to pay for these Nismo products BUT the proportions of those who are willing to those who simply own a Z are not enough for optimal sales.

There are plenty of demand factors and we all wish there was a "simple" reason why companies wait.

Simply put: If i made a magical item that boosted Z HP and voided your warranty....I would wait a couple years when most of my potential customer's warranties are on the brim. They are more "willing" to consume my product.
Why should I waste money NOW distributing products and keeping them on the shelves for only a handful of customers who are willing to take a risk?

 

Certainly as good an answer as any. It would explain why Koni has now delayed their new shocks until Fall or maybe laterwhen customer cars need replacement shocks at 30-40,000 miles.