would you get an ecu if it were $450-$500???
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Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Sydney, Australia
Here's another opinion,
I like many others am very excited about what technosquare have pulled off. To "crack" this ECU wasn't an easy task and they just want to get a reward for it.
The down side is the fact that the gains are not very substantial, moving the rev limiter does nothing as the peak power and torque are all gone by 6400rpm.
To pay 600 bucks for these small gains is a big ask when everyone has such a big shopping list.
In a sense I feel that Techno expected more gains but got stuck with what was there!
To be honest I expected around 20hp from the ECU... in the end it looks disappointing. I'll wait and see if something new gets "discovered" in the near future.
As for price, it's ok if it gave more value!
I like many others am very excited about what technosquare have pulled off. To "crack" this ECU wasn't an easy task and they just want to get a reward for it.
The down side is the fact that the gains are not very substantial, moving the rev limiter does nothing as the peak power and torque are all gone by 6400rpm.
To pay 600 bucks for these small gains is a big ask when everyone has such a big shopping list.
In a sense I feel that Techno expected more gains but got stuck with what was there!
To be honest I expected around 20hp from the ECU... in the end it looks disappointing. I'll wait and see if something new gets "discovered" in the near future.
As for price, it's ok if it gave more value!
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From: Earth
Like I said, I appreciate your efforts and sacrifice, but raceboy is right. I know it's not your business and Technosquare could charge $1000 if they wanted to, but I'd put money that if they dropped the price to $300 they'd multiply the amount of orders they got exponentially. So what if it's not an "elite" product anymore. I've never heard of Technosquare before this product so they obviously aren't very well known. Why not use this perfect opportunity to get a corner on the market, while they've got the advantage.
dwnshift,
What possible benefit would other companies have to stir the pot? It's not like anybody on this board has the technical resources to develop a product like this.
dwnshift,
What possible benefit would other companies have to stir the pot? It's not like anybody on this board has the technical resources to develop a product like this.
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From: ARKANSAS[SUMMER]ARIZONA[WINTER
Originally posted by raceboy
Man, you are just missing the point. I doubt the CEO of IBM knows how to build a computer, and he doesn't have to. That is why engineers should be engineers and businessmen should be businessmen.
Let's say it was $75,000 that it cost to develop the ECU. Now you need to sell 127 units just to recoup your cost. Now, in terms of name brand recognition, TS is no AEM or Borla or even Stillen for that matter and it's really hard to sell some intangible without real name recognition, especiall when you are asking $600 for it!!!! Looks like at the current rate, 127 order are gonna take while to come by. In that time, someone else will come along with the same thing for a lot less, while you haven't even gotten into the black yet. Now you will have competition for further orders, and you are still not even established yourselves.
I might not know engineering an ECU, but I understand profit margins and how to make money. I will bet you pretty much any ammount of money you want that if you dropped the price to $300 (much easier to swallow, even if you have some doubt), you could have 1000 orders in 3 months. That is $300,000-$75,000 for a net profit of $225,000. That profit is net because it is just an add on product to an already existing business. In that time, you have already flooded the market and established your reputation across a much wider audience. It will now be much harder for any competition to come along and compete, since they would have to drop their price even further. You have pretty much pre-disposed of you competitors.
In the end, a business is about making money. If they aren't, they shouldn't be in business. So, that is all I have to say here, we'll see what happens and that will be the true test.
Man, you are just missing the point. I doubt the CEO of IBM knows how to build a computer, and he doesn't have to. That is why engineers should be engineers and businessmen should be businessmen.
Let's say it was $75,000 that it cost to develop the ECU. Now you need to sell 127 units just to recoup your cost. Now, in terms of name brand recognition, TS is no AEM or Borla or even Stillen for that matter and it's really hard to sell some intangible without real name recognition, especiall when you are asking $600 for it!!!! Looks like at the current rate, 127 order are gonna take while to come by. In that time, someone else will come along with the same thing for a lot less, while you haven't even gotten into the black yet. Now you will have competition for further orders, and you are still not even established yourselves.
I might not know engineering an ECU, but I understand profit margins and how to make money. I will bet you pretty much any ammount of money you want that if you dropped the price to $300 (much easier to swallow, even if you have some doubt), you could have 1000 orders in 3 months. That is $300,000-$75,000 for a net profit of $225,000. That profit is net because it is just an add on product to an already existing business. In that time, you have already flooded the market and established your reputation across a much wider audience. It will now be much harder for any competition to come along and compete, since they would have to drop their price even further. You have pretty much pre-disposed of you competitors.
In the end, a business is about making money. If they aren't, they shouldn't be in business. So, that is all I have to say here, we'll see what happens and that will be the true test.
"It's not like anybody on this board has the technical resources to develop a product like this."
....exactly
I have seen it on here time and time again and its not just this board......
People at company A bad mouth company B ..........it gets old.
....exactly
I have seen it on here time and time again and its not just this board......
People at company A bad mouth company B ..........it gets old.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: New Jersey
I have to agree with cheston, it is not a simple process to develop an ecu upgrade for this vehicle. I personally am spending thousands in developing our piggyback ecu. There are countless hours of dyno time which is not cheap ($150/hr) plus the research that goes into the development. The fact that there is not a lot of gains to be had from an ecu upgrade on the stock vehicle is only a testiment to the design of the nissan ecu. But, I like most of you am looking for every little bit of potential from the vehicle in whatever state of mods I have. I would and am willing to bet that with the addition of an intake and exhaust system that more power can be found. Furthermore, if you are unhappy with the pricing then don't buy, that will dictate what the current market value of a product will be. If I thought that an ecu upgrade would only sell for $300 then I wouldn't be developing one myself. It simply isn't good business sense to develop something if you can't make money from it. I also won't be trying to outprice techno's ecu with our own. We are simply going about it a different way and hope to learn from what techno has already done.
Thanks,
Thanks,
Just because you haven't heard the name doesnt mean the product quality is any less superior than a well known name brand... And if you look around for the name Gforce Engineering, perhaps you would know, that was their name prior to changing business plans from just ECU tuning, to Ecu tuning and Racecar tuning. Ask the Supra forums. Mr2s. Maximas.
You're stating "There isnt anyone else on their forum currently that has the technical know how, or expertise to build something like this." THATS CORRECT. There was a demand for a US spec ecu, so then Technos filled the void.... its here now. what the hell is everyone bitching about? if you cannot afford it, or do not want to purchase it, then its your own choice, you choose not to take advantage of it.
WHen people start getting antsy in the pants about the 'cost' or 'monetary worth' of something, you better give me some type of hard evidence stating your reasons for doing so and not making up some phony figures. Comparable ECU upgrades for high-end performance cars are near the thousand mark in japan, and locally here in the USA. why dont you send a letter of discontent with them? you know what they'll say? "Make a better product than what we have and then you can set your own price!"
the Technos ECU is damn good. its an excellent product. and if you dont believe me, or those who have already purchased , or those who aren't afraid to post because of this flame war, maybe people would see the points i'm trying to make. you should not knock something if you've never seen it.
You're stating "There isnt anyone else on their forum currently that has the technical know how, or expertise to build something like this." THATS CORRECT. There was a demand for a US spec ecu, so then Technos filled the void.... its here now. what the hell is everyone bitching about? if you cannot afford it, or do not want to purchase it, then its your own choice, you choose not to take advantage of it.
WHen people start getting antsy in the pants about the 'cost' or 'monetary worth' of something, you better give me some type of hard evidence stating your reasons for doing so and not making up some phony figures. Comparable ECU upgrades for high-end performance cars are near the thousand mark in japan, and locally here in the USA. why dont you send a letter of discontent with them? you know what they'll say? "Make a better product than what we have and then you can set your own price!"
the Technos ECU is damn good. its an excellent product. and if you dont believe me, or those who have already purchased , or those who aren't afraid to post because of this flame war, maybe people would see the points i'm trying to make. you should not knock something if you've never seen it.
Originally posted by jesseenglish
I've never heard of Technosquare before this product so they obviously aren't very well known. Why not use this perfect opportunity to get a corner on the market, while they've got the advantage.
dwnshift,
What possible benefit would other companies have to stir the pot? It's not like anybody on this board has the technical resources to develop a product like this.
I've never heard of Technosquare before this product so they obviously aren't very well known. Why not use this perfect opportunity to get a corner on the market, while they've got the advantage.
dwnshift,
What possible benefit would other companies have to stir the pot? It's not like anybody on this board has the technical resources to develop a product like this.
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Smackahoe Blvd
Originally posted by dwnshift
"It's not like anybody on this board has the technical resources to develop a product like this."
....exactly
I have seen it on here time and time again and its not just this board......
People at company A bad mouth company B ..........it gets old.
"It's not like anybody on this board has the technical resources to develop a product like this."
....exactly
I have seen it on here time and time again and its not just this board......
People at company A bad mouth company B ..........it gets old.
I don't sell anything at all auto related, so who are you talking about??
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Earth
Cheston,
I'm not knocking the quality or performance of the Technosquare ECU, I'm simply stating that for the price it doesn't seem like a very good deal and that if Technosquare really wanted to do something advantageous for their company they would be better off taking a smaller profit and selling more ECU's, in my opinion.
In no way am I trying to degrade the quality of the product, just the pricing structure. If someone doesn't care about spending that kind of money for your ECU then great, more power to them, but it's not gonna be me because I disagree with the reasoning that because other ECU's cost more I should be willing to fork over $600 for yours and that it somehow is a better product because of their pricing.
If I could get a piggyback for that price, I'd be all over it. Something that I could pull off if I wanted to go back to stock without having to send it back in and be without my ECU for days.
I'm not knocking the quality or performance of the Technosquare ECU, I'm simply stating that for the price it doesn't seem like a very good deal and that if Technosquare really wanted to do something advantageous for their company they would be better off taking a smaller profit and selling more ECU's, in my opinion.
In no way am I trying to degrade the quality of the product, just the pricing structure. If someone doesn't care about spending that kind of money for your ECU then great, more power to them, but it's not gonna be me because I disagree with the reasoning that because other ECU's cost more I should be willing to fork over $600 for yours and that it somehow is a better product because of their pricing.
If I could get a piggyback for that price, I'd be all over it. Something that I could pull off if I wanted to go back to stock without having to send it back in and be without my ECU for days.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 468
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From: Orlando, FL
Originally posted by zuffy
Here's another opinion,
I like many others am very excited about what technosquare have pulled off. To "crack" this ECU wasn't an easy task and they just want to get a reward for it.
The down side is the fact that the gains are not very substantial, moving the rev limiter does nothing as the peak power and torque are all gone by 6400rpm.
To be honest I expected around 20hp from the ECU... in the end it looks disappointing. I'll wait and see if something new gets "discovered" in the near future.
Here's another opinion,
I like many others am very excited about what technosquare have pulled off. To "crack" this ECU wasn't an easy task and they just want to get a reward for it.
The down side is the fact that the gains are not very substantial, moving the rev limiter does nothing as the peak power and torque are all gone by 6400rpm.
To be honest I expected around 20hp from the ECU... in the end it looks disappointing. I'll wait and see if something new gets "discovered" in the near future.
Chebosto, I stand corrected. You guys made 7whp.
I will wait for my reasons, others will buy you're upgrade.
Like I said before, this won't be the last ECU upgrade (I hope no one else does either). I also don't believe that it will be the best one available for the Z33. It just takes time.
I've been around a bit and have decent knowledge about modding an import and prefer to spend my money wisely.
I've learned from past experience to go with what's PROVEN and not get the first thing that comes out (not saying TS's product is junk or anything), cause you may just end up spending the same amount again (or more) on something better.
I have to agree with Raceboy. I think 600 $ is a lot of money. Im sure we all have at least 10 mods on our minds then just must have!! Lets break this down a lil..
ECU - 600
Tax - 36
Reprogram Ins fee - 20
shipping - 10 - 20 (not sure)
* some people need there cars and would have to rent a car for 3 days at about 60 a day.. so thats 180 $!!
So this ECU will coast 846 - 856 DOLLARS!!!!!!
Now what are we getting???
7 HP and 3 LBS Torq, umm our intakes will produce 2 - 3 more horse then b4, Rev limt who cares no power there anyways, Speed Lim umm 155 might be fast enough..
I'm not against Techno I was looking into getting this but all im tring to do is bring myself to believe that this is worth it.. Like it was said b4 Its hard to buy something that you cant see.. Some of my numbers might be wrong and some people can get rides for those 3 days but still were are talking about a 700 ECU. I would Like to see it about 450 myself but you never know only time will tell..
Thanx evryone this is a good thread
ECU - 600
Tax - 36
Reprogram Ins fee - 20
shipping - 10 - 20 (not sure)
* some people need there cars and would have to rent a car for 3 days at about 60 a day.. so thats 180 $!!
So this ECU will coast 846 - 856 DOLLARS!!!!!!
Now what are we getting???
7 HP and 3 LBS Torq, umm our intakes will produce 2 - 3 more horse then b4, Rev limt who cares no power there anyways, Speed Lim umm 155 might be fast enough..
I'm not against Techno I was looking into getting this but all im tring to do is bring myself to believe that this is worth it.. Like it was said b4 Its hard to buy something that you cant see.. Some of my numbers might be wrong and some people can get rides for those 3 days but still were are talking about a 700 ECU. I would Like to see it about 450 myself but you never know only time will tell..
Thanx evryone this is a good thread
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 800
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From: Long Beach, CA
This seems to be getting nowhere. As the only Technos customer to come out and publicly compliment their ECU, I'm gonna make this offer to raceboy. Let's meet somewhere this weekend, just you and me, and you can test drive my car and its new ECU. You're our resident westcoast racer. I want to know your opinion, too, as does everyone here, probably. Now my car is a Touring MT with stock suspension and tires. But it does have Nismo CAI and Borla duals, which is probably close to your setup. Since we're talking power, the suspension shouldn't make much difference. Only thing, though, my car has only 4000 on the odo. But how about it? I'm just trying to offer a solution for everyone. Any objections, Cheston? 
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From: Riverside, California
[QUOTE]Originally posted by raceboy
[B] Now, in terms of name brand recognition, TS is no AEM or Borla or even Stillen for that matter [QUOTE]
this just goes well with what i was about to say
if it was nismo you guys would be willing to pay out the *** for it
and btw the more current hondata flash for the RSX costs 650
new cars have more complicated computers hence more expensive program flashes.
last time i compared it the yen veilsides ecu was over a thousand dollars.
geez, if you want the cheapest products for your car fine, go buy some tenzo R wheels.
[B] Now, in terms of name brand recognition, TS is no AEM or Borla or even Stillen for that matter [QUOTE]
this just goes well with what i was about to say
if it was nismo you guys would be willing to pay out the *** for it
and btw the more current hondata flash for the RSX costs 650
new cars have more complicated computers hence more expensive program flashes.
last time i compared it the yen veilsides ecu was over a thousand dollars.
geez, if you want the cheapest products for your car fine, go buy some tenzo R wheels.
Zakira -- Seems like a great idea. thats only if you want to give up your car to Raceboy.
infidsg35 -- Yet again, you're only looking at the peak hp/torque gains. that's not what and ecu is supposed to do here. The ECU upgrade is to improve the overall driveability of the car... Perhaps you should look at the rest of the torque and hp curves that AREN'T at peak. for example, the nearly 13 ft/lb torque increase from stock at 5100, torque is that feeling of getting pushed back into the seat when accelerating..now tell me if those gains throughout the entire band isnt better than slapping on a measily intake?
infidsg35 -- Yet again, you're only looking at the peak hp/torque gains. that's not what and ecu is supposed to do here. The ECU upgrade is to improve the overall driveability of the car... Perhaps you should look at the rest of the torque and hp curves that AREN'T at peak. for example, the nearly 13 ft/lb torque increase from stock at 5100, torque is that feeling of getting pushed back into the seat when accelerating..now tell me if those gains throughout the entire band isnt better than slapping on a measily intake?
My $0.02......
as my understanding, the stock ECU will try to settle the car as close to stock when an aftermarket part is put on, thus not using the full potential of the aftermarket product. This was the main reason why so many people are/were interested in an ECU reprogram.
First of all to answer the questionf of the post, yes I would buy the ECU upgrade for $500. But I am still planning to spend the $595 for the ECU upgrade within a few weeks. Does that mean I'm filthy rich??? No, actually like many of you I am always looking for the BEST deal out there. I am also not going to compare my car to a Honda, nor will I compare it to a Ferrari. Those are two different cars and two different set up just like the Z is different. Does that mean just b/c one is cheaper than the other, that the cheaper one does not do it's job? No, they all do the same job, gets a person from pt. A to pt. B, therefore you do not need this mod, or any other mod. This is a HOBBY, a SELF Satisfaction and nothing more. People in this forum are bitching about this like it's something you NEED and can't get it b/c of the price.
We ALL know that anything for the Z is really overpriced. You can compare an exhaust for a Supra and for the Z and it is clear that the Z in most cases is more expensive. So why are we sitting here bitching that TS is charging too much? When we should be saying that to everything for the Z.
So is the TS really worth the money? This is what I came up with... exhaust is anywhere from $800 to $2500 and the power given is anywhere from 5-12 whp. From the dyno I see that max ECU upgrade from TS was 7whp, but I will use it as +-5whp for my example. If the above statement is all true, then buying a CAI is suppose to give you +-5 whp with stock ECU. But since stock ECU hinders the full potential of the CAI, you will actually gain +-2.5 whp over a period when it settles. After ECU upgrade the actuall gain of the upgarde should be +-7.5 whp...so over a period of different mods you will acutally be able to gain +- 20 whp. (Again it is not prooved that stock ECU will settle as close to stock and make aftermarket products lose power, THIS IS ONLY WHAT I UNDERSTOOD FROM ALL THE TS FORUM, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG) So in actual I will be able to see more power with more mods over a period of time b/c I did invest in a $595 upgrade.
The other reason why I think TS is great, is b/c I have read nothing but good CS comment, and I think their guarantee helps a lot. Of course before I do get it, I want it in writing and make sure TS agrees to update the ECU if they come up with a new one for the $20 price. I do live in L.A. and have talked to them a few times and I am looking forward to get this done soon.
Basic point is, if you don't think it's worth it, dont' get it. If you want it but think it's too expensive, wait it out and don't ***** about the price. If you think it's great, go get it! LIKE I SAID SELF SATISFACTION .... HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY FOR THAT????
as my understanding, the stock ECU will try to settle the car as close to stock when an aftermarket part is put on, thus not using the full potential of the aftermarket product. This was the main reason why so many people are/were interested in an ECU reprogram.
First of all to answer the questionf of the post, yes I would buy the ECU upgrade for $500. But I am still planning to spend the $595 for the ECU upgrade within a few weeks. Does that mean I'm filthy rich??? No, actually like many of you I am always looking for the BEST deal out there. I am also not going to compare my car to a Honda, nor will I compare it to a Ferrari. Those are two different cars and two different set up just like the Z is different. Does that mean just b/c one is cheaper than the other, that the cheaper one does not do it's job? No, they all do the same job, gets a person from pt. A to pt. B, therefore you do not need this mod, or any other mod. This is a HOBBY, a SELF Satisfaction and nothing more. People in this forum are bitching about this like it's something you NEED and can't get it b/c of the price.
We ALL know that anything for the Z is really overpriced. You can compare an exhaust for a Supra and for the Z and it is clear that the Z in most cases is more expensive. So why are we sitting here bitching that TS is charging too much? When we should be saying that to everything for the Z.
So is the TS really worth the money? This is what I came up with... exhaust is anywhere from $800 to $2500 and the power given is anywhere from 5-12 whp. From the dyno I see that max ECU upgrade from TS was 7whp, but I will use it as +-5whp for my example. If the above statement is all true, then buying a CAI is suppose to give you +-5 whp with stock ECU. But since stock ECU hinders the full potential of the CAI, you will actually gain +-2.5 whp over a period when it settles. After ECU upgrade the actuall gain of the upgarde should be +-7.5 whp...so over a period of different mods you will acutally be able to gain +- 20 whp. (Again it is not prooved that stock ECU will settle as close to stock and make aftermarket products lose power, THIS IS ONLY WHAT I UNDERSTOOD FROM ALL THE TS FORUM, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG) So in actual I will be able to see more power with more mods over a period of time b/c I did invest in a $595 upgrade.
The other reason why I think TS is great, is b/c I have read nothing but good CS comment, and I think their guarantee helps a lot. Of course before I do get it, I want it in writing and make sure TS agrees to update the ECU if they come up with a new one for the $20 price. I do live in L.A. and have talked to them a few times and I am looking forward to get this done soon.
Basic point is, if you don't think it's worth it, dont' get it. If you want it but think it's too expensive, wait it out and don't ***** about the price. If you think it's great, go get it! LIKE I SAID SELF SATISFACTION .... HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY FOR THAT????
Thats all true about the 13 Lbs of tourq and it does sound good but the bottom line is price. We are the customers and we are just voicing our opinions for free wich is priceless to a company. See what the people want, compliments, complaints ect.. So for the people who just say dont buy it they should go to a diff thread cause that is not what this 1 is about!!
By the way when will the G35 Coupe be ready?
Will it be the same price?
By the way when will the G35 Coupe be ready?
Will it be the same price?
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From: San Diego, CA
This is funny. Do you guys complaining about the price know how much reflashes go for nowadays for new cars??? The TS reflash is priced right where it should be. Like bobbarker mentioned, the reflash for the K20 is $595. And thats a K20 found in the RSX. Those cars are considerably cheaper than the Z and they seem to be selling like crazy. The cheapest reflash I found was for a 97-98 Integra and that was $446 by Comptech. This is not an Integra people.
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