Notices
Engine & Drivetrain VQ Power and Delivery

why LSD??

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-11-2008 | 01:43 PM
  #1  
411Z's Avatar
411Z
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
Likes: 1
From: North Las Vegas, NV
Default why LSD??

whats with everyones hard on with an lsd? and im not a noob posting on why i should get one, because i dont want it. i just dont see why its so great...

now maybe its the drag racer in me, but i love the feeling of both tires spinning and fishing it out around the corner. thats the was a rear wheel drive car should be. a solid axle is the only way to go, imo. now eventually ill take my car out on the road course and see whats up, and maybe ill realize what everyone is saying. but im willing to bet, and i could be wrong, that a good driver with a solid axle can keep up with an lsd. its not that hard.

i dont know a whole lot about the lsd's, but i know it follows the same line as the old posi-trac. i had a posi in my old chevy street rod, and it was just not that fun. one wheel burnouts are gay.

just lookin for an answer on why everyone likes that one wheel drive bs.
Old 07-11-2008 | 01:48 PM
  #2  
iStan's Avatar
iStan
ZR
Premier Member
iTrader: (29)
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,444
Likes: 3
From: Las Vegas
Default

... Go hit pahrump with no LSD... You'll see why.
Old 07-11-2008 | 01:48 PM
  #3  
LAKERSFAN's Avatar
LAKERSFAN
New Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 1
From: orange county-ca
Default

Originally Posted by 411Z
whats with everyones hard on with an lsd?
I thought E was the new thing now.

I had a blast when i was younger.

oh, sorry. wrong lsd
Old 07-11-2008 | 01:57 PM
  #4  
411Z's Avatar
411Z
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
Likes: 1
From: North Las Vegas, NV
Default

^^^ thats pretty funny bro
Old 07-11-2008 | 02:27 PM
  #5  
R-TuneZ's Avatar
R-TuneZ
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: NY/NJ/PA/FL
Default

Originally Posted by LAKERSFAN
I thought E was the new thing now.

I had a blast when i was younger.

oh, sorry. wrong lsd
hahaha +1!
Old 07-11-2008 | 02:31 PM
  #6  
surfcity40's Avatar
surfcity40
New Member
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 12,329
Likes: 5
From: SoCal
Default

You have an incorrect view of what an LSD does. Here is a wiki that explains a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-slip_differential

BTW, The Z has a Viscous LSD.

Last edited by surfcity40; 07-11-2008 at 02:33 PM.
Old 07-11-2008 | 02:39 PM
  #7  
411Z's Avatar
411Z
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
Likes: 1
From: North Las Vegas, NV
Default

ok. so its basically a one up on a posi, no? so basically the main advantage of an lsd over an open diff, on a road course, would be coming out of a corner i figure. right?

i dont know, i see your point, but i still dont think im ready to jump ontot he bandwagon
Old 07-11-2008 | 03:38 PM
  #8  
surfcity40's Avatar
surfcity40
New Member
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 12,329
Likes: 5
From: SoCal
Default

Originally Posted by 411Z
ok. so its basically a one up on a posi, no? so basically the main advantage of an lsd over an open diff, on a road course, would be coming out of a corner i figure. right? i dont know, i see your point, but i still dont think im ready to jump ontot he bandwagon
posi was merely both rear wheels having drive as opposed to one wheel having drive. LSD is for cars that have posi already but it takes into consideration what wheel needs what amount of drive given the experience the car finds itself in. It doesn't "shut off" drive to one wheel, it regulates the amount of drive to each wheel based upon what is senses is occurring. Viscous LSDs are the easiest to manage.

Don't get a two-way to drift til you understand LSD.

It basically senses which wheel is still grabbing and sends the power to THAT wheel in layman's terms (specially the quaiffe)

Last edited by surfcity40; 07-11-2008 at 03:46 PM.
Old 07-11-2008 | 03:42 PM
  #9  
411Z's Avatar
411Z
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
Likes: 1
From: North Las Vegas, NV
Default

well that makes good sense. but i still dont really understand why you would want that to drift or drag race? especially in drifting, one would think you want both wheel spinning freely, not trying its dammed hardest to hook up?
Old 07-11-2008 | 03:53 PM
  #10  
surfcity40's Avatar
surfcity40
New Member
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 12,329
Likes: 5
From: SoCal
Default

Originally Posted by 411Z
well that makes good sense. but i still dont really understand why you would want that to drift or drag race? especially in drifting, one would think you want both wheel spinning freely, not trying its dammed hardest to hook up?
In drifting you're gonna break loose. Might as well break loose under some kind of control.

A limited slip differential (LSD) is extremely important in a drifting application. An LSD allows the power to be used by both of the rear wheels evenly by locking them together. An open differential, or non-LSD, allows the drive wheels to rotate independently based on the load placed on them. In other words, if you're cornering and the majority of the vehicle's weight is on the right rear tire, the left rear tire will spin freely. A slide (or drift) can't be sustained in these conditions. The most popular LSD in the drifting community is the 2-way, clutch type LSD. Its aggressive, constant lockup behavior in all conditions is preferred by most drifters. You can go cheap by welding the side gears on the differential, but it's very tough on the driveline and greatly reduces drivability.
In drag racing, you don't want to spin. It eats time.

Last edited by surfcity40; 07-11-2008 at 04:15 PM.
Old 07-11-2008 | 08:02 PM
  #11  
gothchick's Avatar
gothchick
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,300
Likes: 1
From: ATL
Default

Originally Posted by surfcity40
You have an incorrect view of what an LSD does. Here is a wiki that explains a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-slip_differential

BTW, The Z has a Viscous LSD.
Good read. This part caught my attention...

"Viscous LSDs are less efficient than mechanical types, that is, they "lose" some power. They do not stand up well to abuse. In particular, any sustained load which overheats the silicone results in sudden permanent loss of the LSD effect.[4] They do have the virtue of failing gracefully, reverting to semi-open differential behaviour, without the graunching of metal particles / fragmented clutches. Typically a visco-differential that has covered 60,000 miles or more will be functioning largely as an open differential"

Last edited by gothchick; 07-11-2008 at 08:07 PM.
Old 07-12-2008 | 03:08 AM
  #12  
=Cerberus='s Avatar
=Cerberus=
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
From: New England
Default

Originally Posted by surfcity40
posi was merely both rear wheels having drive as opposed to one wheel having drive. LSD is for cars that have posi already but it takes into consideration what wheel needs what amount of drive given the experience the car finds itself in. It doesn't "shut off" drive to one wheel, it regulates the amount of drive to each wheel based upon what is senses is occurring. Viscous LSDs are the easiest to manage.

Don't get a two-way to drift til you understand LSD.

It basically senses which wheel is still grabbing and sends the power to THAT wheel in layman's terms (specially the quaiffe)
I would just like to correct you a bit. A "posi" unit is just a clutch type Limited slip. It is just that GM coined the term "positraction" and uses it as a selling point. Where most imports started using the more relevant term "limited slip" or "LSD" to sell cars.

A spool permanently locks both axles with no slip at all.
Old 07-12-2008 | 07:02 AM
  #13  
mw9's Avatar
mw9
Registered User
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,405
Likes: 5
From: cincinnati
Default

Originally Posted by gothchick
Good read. This part caught my attention...

"Viscous LSDs are less efficient than mechanical types, that is, they "lose" some power. They do not stand up well to abuse. In particular, any sustained load which overheats the silicone results in sudden permanent loss of the LSD effect.[4] They do have the virtue of failing gracefully, reverting to semi-open differential behaviour, without the graunching of metal particles / fragmented clutches. Typically a visco-differential that has covered 60,000 miles or more will be functioning largely as an open differential"

So basically, are stock ones wear out. I have beat the tar out of my car, I now have 62000 miles. I autocross alot, so probably would help me out my upgrading my LSD, what would be a good one to get for my application.
Old 07-12-2008 | 02:04 PM
  #14  
surfcity40's Avatar
surfcity40
New Member
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 12,329
Likes: 5
From: SoCal
Default

Originally Posted by shyguy010
I would just like to correct you a bit. A "posi" unit is just a clutch type Limited slip. It is just that GM coined the term "positraction" and uses it as a selling point. Where most imports started using the more relevant term "limited slip" or "LSD" to sell cars. A spool permanently locks both axles with no slip at all.
Thanks, I didn't explain positraction very well. An example can be seen in the movie "My Cousin Vinny" wherein Vinny's "mechanic" girlfriend was able to solve the case of a car speeding away from the scene of crime. The Defendant's car was NOT the car because the crime scene showed the burnout skid of one wheel leaving the scene, whereas the kids on trial had positraction in their Pontiac (i think it was a Pontiac) which would have left two burnout skids.

Last edited by surfcity40; 07-12-2008 at 02:20 PM.
Old 07-12-2008 | 03:14 PM
  #15  
Hoooper's Avatar
Hoooper
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,670
Likes: 0
From: Santa Clara, Ca
Default

Originally Posted by mw9
So basically, are stock ones wear out. I have beat the tar out of my car, I now have 62000 miles. I autocross alot, so probably would help me out my upgrading my LSD, what would be a good one to get for my application.
yes, the clutches on a VLSD will wear out. if you autocross a lot and drive quickly, it was probably before 60,000. granted, it will still operate and seem normal, but the LSD operation of it will be diminished.
Old 07-12-2008 | 04:10 PM
  #16  
iStan's Avatar
iStan
ZR
Premier Member
iTrader: (29)
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,444
Likes: 3
From: Las Vegas
Default

Originally Posted by surfcity40
The Defendant's car was NOT the car because the crime scene showed the burnout skid of one wheel leaving the scene, whereas the kids on trial had positraction in their Pontiac (i think it was a Pontiac) which would have left two burnout skids.
Your movie referencing sucks. The kids did not have positraction, hense two tire burnouts were left on the scene.
Duh.
Old 07-12-2008 | 04:28 PM
  #17  
surfcity40's Avatar
surfcity40
New Member
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 12,329
Likes: 5
From: SoCal
Default

Originally Posted by iStan
Your movie referencing sucks. The kids did not have positraction, hense two tire burnouts were left on the scene.
Duh.
What he said...what can I say, I'm dyslexic...you know what I meant

(my memory is shot and that's an old movie, jeez off the top of my head "My effing Cousin Vinny" was good pull)....

Last edited by surfcity40; 07-12-2008 at 04:42 PM.
Old 07-12-2008 | 04:31 PM
  #18  
Hraesvelg's Avatar
Hraesvelg
Got Uranium?
Premier Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 35,723
Likes: 6
From: The Recliner of Rage
Default

Originally Posted by 411Z

i dont know, i see your point, but i still dont think im ready to jump ontot he bandwagon
Obviously not since you got the base Z.
Old 07-12-2008 | 04:38 PM
  #19  
Ruthless18x's Avatar
Ruthless18x
Registered User
iTrader: (59)
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,334
Likes: 6
From: My Self Created Hell
Default

Originally Posted by Hraesvelg
Obviously not since you got the base Z.
hahaha
Old 07-12-2008 | 04:43 PM
  #20  
411Z's Avatar
411Z
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
Likes: 1
From: North Las Vegas, NV
Default

ooh sick burn.... but true.


Quick Reply: why LSD??



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:32 AM.