BigBadBlackTrack

the car is with PE now for some strange reason I forgot my Camera at home when i delivered the car. Thursday the turbo setup and initial tuning will be done and i will show some pics.

1 week from SEMA and still so much work to be done this is making us nervous.

After SEMA more tuning will be done with the car. With Techno's help and Cheston.

Z you guys at SEMA we'll be there Tuesday and Wednesday.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

Good luck BBBT--

im still awaiting word from PE concerning my kit..


*sigh*

zland

I am not sure of the politics that goes behind closed doors but I would respect PE more if they took care of Cheston first since he laid his car on the line for months with TS and PE than PE using the Z with Lambo doors for SEMA. Is the lambo car being used over Chestons because it looks showy?

Again, I dont know the details but I do know Cheston loss the use of his car for months. That means a lot to me, I hope it means a lot to PE as well. Please correct me where I am ignorant. I must be missing something in the details.

The most showy thing that could be done right now is for Cheston to be set upright with his car IMHO.

BigBadBlackTrack

i know where youre coming from and Cheston and myself has been talking about the whole situation since way back when. The politics behind this is far more that you can imagine.

and PE is not using the car for SEMA. Infact the car was really going to SEMA with Borla with or with out the turbo. PE had a chance to put it on there and they did. This doesnt mean I got for free. Cheston knows I paid a premium for getting this kit.

I paid a stiff price to get this Kit even for a show car that will market their kit to the public. I still believe that Cheston should get the kit 100% free after all the hassle that he has been to. He did all this for all Z drivers here in the US.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

you know. i wish that PE USA had the same feelings that you have, but apparently they feel that after they paid the R&D fab costs for the piping that Technosquare charged, that the use of my car was already 'paid for' and that no longer constitutes a free kit... right now Technosquare is in talks of purchasing the tt kit for me, and from the news i heard yesterday, they wanted to charge us the same price that they charged BBBT...

politics suck. drama is never good-- but BBBT needs the TT kit more than i do, he's got upcoming shows to do and win.. i just want it because of what has already been done to get it this far... i have my own mag shoots and a TV pilot show taping coming up (wink) but i guess that publicity doesnt really matter to PE as much as making money off the first kits in the usa... but what can i do. i'm stuck here in the middle.

vincenzobar

welp not getting my money!!! even if it the most powerfull TT setup in the world, I won't drop a dime on them now!!!

mdacko

iTrader: (3)

http://www.i-m-racing.com/comsoonpowen.html

i-m-racing has it for $7995

zland

BigBadBlackTrack: Thanks for being upfront on what is going on. My question to you and Cheston is if they are willing to burn Cheston then how can we trust them not to burn us as customers?

Jeff

350Now

That is a really good point. By how they treat the people that got them here (i.e. Cheston and TS to prototype the turbo manifold and other what not) how can others trust them in the future when the kit is finally out? Will they be supportive to their customer? I was really looking forward to seeing this kit hit the market but now am hesitant about this kit. I am in no hurry so hopefully more kits do make it out. I'm interested in seeing if Greddy can get the e-manage to work on the Z.

BigBadBlackTrack

Oh one important note that I forgot to mention to you all is we DIDNT get the turbo from PE. we never dealt with PE in all of this. I guess they promised rbmotoring.com one of the kits as soon as the production run starts and we got that kit that they promised from rbmotoring.com

Sean00500

Yea that is really BS, if it wasnt for u guys people like me would have no idea about any of this, because every website has a different story on this products, not to many are upfront about the info, and im sorry but i cant read japanese so for guys like me, the work the Cheston did for us and the info from TS, he pretty much opened the doors for this kit in the US, PE is gonna make so much money, but from their actions, it would almost be nice to see them get burnt badly buy us Z owners gettin different kits just inspite them. Cheston i think that you should def get this kit for free man u deserve it, and BBBT they should def cut u a deal.

I think these companies forget that if it wasn't for word of mouth, 60% of there sales would be missing, because they dont advertise themselves all that well. Maybe someone should let them know this.

Sorry to hear all the BS fellaz, you guys are a huge help to the Z community, you let us know about all the new things, and what to get what not to waste your time on, You guys rock.

swifty949

PE USA Is run by the guy that started Greddy USA. He burned A LOT of bridges and evenutally got fired by Greddy USA....Just some back ground on the company.

Unfortunatly it's not my place to go into more details, but i know enough to not trust this company when this guy is in charge.

zland

Wow, that is too bad to hear.

Everyone has a different level of expectation concerning what is acceptable as far as performance, service, & warranty. I do not feel that purchasing a FI system for my car is any different than any other product.

I expect it to perform for the purpose it was designed for thus blowing up the motor within 3,000 miles is unacceptable for me. I expect the manufacture of the FI system to back their product and if it fails, I expect them to determine the reason for failure. In otherwords, I expect a tuner and a FI system manufacturer to back what they sell. I do not expect them to back something that has been abused but that does not mean that as soon as I buy it, they forget that I am their customer.

Many negative comments have been direct toward Stillens. Maybe some or all of them are fair complaints, I don't know. What I do know is that I appreciate that they warranty their product AND the motor it is installed in.

I intend to drive my Z as a daily driver after I FI it. I need to know that my car is not an experiment but that the product will work with a reasonable amount of reliability. I do not want to pay for a product and become their R&D of that product.

PE should be backing those that worked with them to develop their product. This is like stabbing your brother in the back. Cheston took on a risk of allwoing this TT and chip to be installed in his car. He was risking a new car. Regardless if it blew up or not, the risk was real. He needs to be compensated for that usage of his car besides the loss of the use of his car for months. I am sure that his car depreciated during that time.

vincenzobar

PE = Pipe Eaters

zland

I keep dreaming about a 350Z putting out 400rwhp. The PE TT must be an awesome Z to drive.

Jeff@Evolution

The PE kit in my opinion uses great choices of parts and it's a very complete kit. The finish of the kit in its parts seems like it's done by great designer and great fabricator. And from what members have posted. Seems like it's a very powerful kit and it will make more power and have more potential than some of the blower on the market. Is it a better kit than TS or Greddy. Only time will tell.

Do I like how things are going with PE usa? No, this whole thing stinks. Cheston deserve his kit. He put his car on the line. And BBBT deserve his kit. It's for sema... and some people/company spend a full year to build stuff for SEMA. There's a lot of people out there that's saying they deserve this kit. I myself think so too. We have two customers that paid full for this kit months and months ago before the price even came out. THAT's Demand. Do I have any PE kit on it's way to me? Nope, I do understand the situation, and I'll give PE USA their chance to make me happy and make my customer happy. They had the first TT kit on the market. If they market them self right and take care of their customers. Greddy and TS better watch out. This market is here for them to take. Eveyrthing in the world these days on internet are hype and bandwagon. Many will follow, only a few need to succeed.

But I don't care how GOOD your parts are or how much power your turbo kit make. If I can't trust the guy I'm spending my money with. So this is all up to PE USA to make the right move.

Cheston and BBBT, good luck to you guys and hopefully I will meet some of you at SEMA. PM me with your cell number and I"m looking forward to talking to you guys there. I'll be there on Mon-Weds. And maybe we can trade information.

thanks for reading my opinions.

Jeff - Evolution

zland

Jeff@Evolution: Amen!

The demand for these products is always not met right away. There is a hardcore group that want them right away, willing to take great risks, and pay the highest prices.

After that group, then comes the 2nd group/phase. These people tend to watch the first group, see how the product performs and how well the service is provided from the companies and vendors. This group is a larger group and a tougher sale. They want the product but need a little more evidence than the first group/not willing to take as much risk. If the product is not a proven and reliable product that is sold with outstanding service, many people from this group will tend to not buy it.

There is no doubt PE and other TT companies will sell a number of TT to the first group without much problem. The 2nd group is where they will most likely make their profit or lose their investment. The bottom line is these companies must provide a good product and service to this 2nd group or risk losing money.

I am the type of person that will be in the 2nd group. I hope one of these FI companies can meet my needs. I got the money waiting to be spent. The issue is can they provide the product, performance, and service I need to let go of my hard earned money?

Jeff@Evolution

zland... I totally understand your point of view. It's very simple and it's hard to believe some manufacture these days still can't understand those simple points.
You want to have a successful products. You begin by building a great concept with great parts. And then you have a great kit. Test it and after it's proven... You are on the right track.
Have great dealers under you to help you market a product and have them take care of their customer by offering quality installs. And have your sales guy do their job. Honesty is the best thing from a sales guy. It will be appreciated by loyal customers in long term than just making a couple of dollars in the short term.

The only thing is, from my point of view. (I'm a dealer and I do sales).
1. the PE kit does not offer much of a discount and I would have to sell this kit at close to retail vs. Greddy which I can offer my customer some more discounts. Which route would I take, I would not just look at the profit margin. I would also look at which kit would bring me less headache. (warranty/ delivery time)....
2. Which kit will make more power... From a customer point of view. If I spend money, as long as I'm making power and my car is running good. The smile on my face is priceless.

I still have a lot of questions that I need to find answer to. And all of these posts I have read, still a lot of them have not been answered. All of the stats on this kit sounds great, all of the parts on this kit sounds great. Hopefully I will find out more answers soon. I'll be dealing with Hideo the next few weeks. And hopefully meeting Cheston and BBBT at Sema. And maybe I can help this forum in the future with some more answers.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

Jeff-
i wish i could come out to SEMA, i actually have to go on a business trip to New Mexico, darn the luck!!! but yes. BBBT will be there...

take picts!! you'll be seeing the kit before i do...

--Ches

zland

Jeff@Evolution:

It seems that from reading on line, the (potential durability) problems that have occurred thus far with the released SC’ers on the market have fallen into two categories.

The first being with the with the ATI SC. Most people on line (including some owners of the ATI SC’ers) seem to feel the burnt pistons have been from a lean air/fuel mixture condition.

The 2nd problem, Stillen products, seem to be with some pinging due to running hot in warm operating temperatures. This will most likely be fixed with the upcoming intercooler. Adding more hp to this system, which is needed, is another issue.

At this point, it appears that the only engine damage that has occurred in any FI system released thus far on a 350Z has been related to a lean air/fuel mixture.

Maybe you are qualified to answer these questions?

1. What systems is the PE TT system using to control the air/fuel mixture? Will these systems seem to be designed well enough to prevent a lean air/fuel mixture yet sophisticated enough to have the motor run optimally?
2. The Greddy TT seems to be using a piggyback system. Are the problems that appear to be related to delaying this product due to integrating the piggyback system to the ECU? I have heard rumors of this system not being able to idle satisfactory. Will this system seem to be designed well enough to prevent a lean air/fuel mixture yet sophisticated enough to have the motor run optimally?
3.Some people have commented that the ATI SC fuel management system works but is crude. Other people have implied the stock injectors need to be bigger and that over time, these stock injectors are prone to failure due to excessive fuel being forced through them exceeded their design. I have also heard that this failure could cause a lean condition thus possible burnt pistons. Do you think a better fuel management system could/should be considered if going with this system?

Thanks, Jeff

PS: Anyone else that feels they can give me better insight to these issues, please feel free to comment.