Lsx 03 350z
04-12-2010, 09:09 PM
#122
My research on the T56 and the couple friends that have them have shown that they are not as bullet proof as everyone things. They are wonderful transmissions but they still need to be built quite a bit. One modification that goes a long way is replacing the stamped keys inside with billet keys.
In the end I went for simplicity and a drag setup. I live near the strip so I might as well build for it. Other than that the TH400 is just more cost effective.
In the end I went for simplicity and a drag setup. I live near the strip so I might as well build for it. Other than that the TH400 is just more cost effective.
04-13-2010, 06:35 AM
#123
New Member
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: terre haute, IN; STL, MO
Posts: 6,457
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
6 Posts
My research on the T56 and the couple friends that have them have shown that they are not as bullet proof as everyone things. They are wonderful transmissions but they still need to be built quite a bit. One modification that goes a long way is replacing the stamped keys inside with billet keys.
In the end I went for simplicity and a drag setup. I live near the strip so I might as well build for it. Other than that the TH400 is just more cost effective.
In the end I went for simplicity and a drag setup. I live near the strip so I might as well build for it. Other than that the TH400 is just more cost effective.
makes sense i guess. the drag strip part and cost part.
about strength, a few friends around here with zo6's have boosted them and are putting well over 600hp to their stock t56's. The only thing i would say might be different is if the factory alters the t56's on the zo6's.
04-13-2010, 07:58 AM
#124
makes sense i guess. the drag strip part and cost part.
about strength, a few friends around here with zo6's have boosted them and are putting well over 600hp to their stock t56's. The only thing i would say might be different is if the factory alters the t56's on the zo6's.
about strength, a few friends around here with zo6's have boosted them and are putting well over 600hp to their stock t56's. The only thing i would say might be different is if the factory alters the t56's on the zo6's.
Ultimately, I just like how a TH400 drives. My friend had one in his 2JZ/RWD Probe and it was a blast to drive and fast. Not to mention he could actually put the power down which I think is the main driver for me.
04-13-2010, 10:49 AM
#126
New Member
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: terre haute, IN; STL, MO
Posts: 6,457
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
6 Posts
There are a couple different variations of the T56. The vette's use a transaxle also which could make a difference in how they are designed. I know there is an MM6 and a MN12 version of the transmission. I have a couple friends who have had problems with them generally related to simple things like synchros and keys. Other than that the gears in those transmissions are great!
Ultimately, I just like how a TH400 drives. My friend had one in his 2JZ/RWD Probe and it was a blast to drive and fast. Not to mention he could actually put the power down which I think is the main driver for me.
Ultimately, I just like how a TH400 drives. My friend had one in his 2JZ/RWD Probe and it was a blast to drive and fast. Not to mention he could actually put the power down which I think is the main driver for me.
ah, thanks for the info. I'm far from an expert on transmissions. I definitely understand using a th400 for dragstrip. I would probably go that route for a drag car myself for better launches. If i decide to do the swap for my car i would go with a 6 speed since mine is primarily a fun car and only sees the strip on "street night".
04-13-2010, 01:07 PM
#127
ah, thanks for the info. I'm far from an expert on transmissions. I definitely understand using a th400 for dragstrip. I would probably go that route for a drag car myself for better launches. If i decide to do the swap for my car i would go with a 6 speed since mine is primarily a fun car and only sees the strip on "street night".
I bought a complete setup (TH400/Flexplate/Torque Converter) from TCI for only $1800.
All the used T56's I could find that I felt comfortable buying were about $1500-$2000 without a clutch or flywheel. Not to say they couldn't be found cheaper if you searched a bunch or waited for the right deal to pop up.
I also ran into a problem that the decent priced T56's always seemed to be from different cars. This generally ment you would have to replace the input shaft to mate with the LSX clutch and pilot bearing along with purchasing the correct bell housing and throwout bearing. Not to mention you still have to purchase a new larger bore master cylinder and shifter and adapt them to the Z. The T56 got above $2500 without a clutch and flywheel real quick which is why I made the compromise. A TH400 will still be a blast on the street IMO.
All the above is just general information that companies who make swap kits don't really tell you. I think they are important to understand from a customer standpoint. I also feel that the above parts are where the avaible swap kits really fall short and a TH400 swap shines. With the TH400 you can just mount the transmission/shifter and remove the clutch pedal and master cylinder. Quite straight forward IMO.
Note that with a TH400 you still have to simulate the clutch pedal sensor in order for the car to start if you are using the stock ignition key. This is actually quite easy to do though as it is just a small threaded push button sensor that you can thread a metric cap nut onto.
I will try to document as much of these details in my build thread once I start it.
04-13-2010, 05:22 PM
#128
New Member
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: terre haute, IN; STL, MO
Posts: 6,457
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
6 Posts
ah, i never thought of availability.
I guess in indiana we have tons of LS cars so it's easy to find a junkyard selling engine/trans together from 1 car.
I'm in stl for school right now. depending where you are in wisconsin i was just up your way for my tuning (or lack of tuning).
I'll be up there around 4th of july in milwakee with some classmates for the huge concert thing they do. Can't remember the name. 2 weeks of huge concerts they talkabout all the time.
I guess in indiana we have tons of LS cars so it's easy to find a junkyard selling engine/trans together from 1 car.
I'm in stl for school right now. depending where you are in wisconsin i was just up your way for my tuning (or lack of tuning).
I'll be up there around 4th of july in milwakee with some classmates for the huge concert thing they do. Can't remember the name. 2 weeks of huge concerts they talkabout all the time.
04-13-2010, 05:36 PM
#129
ah, i never thought of availability.
I guess in indiana we have tons of LS cars so it's easy to find a junkyard selling engine/trans together from 1 car.
I'm in stl for school right now. depending where you are in wisconsin i was just up your way for my tuning (or lack of tuning).
I'll be up there around 4th of july in milwakee with some classmates for the huge concert thing they do. Can't remember the name. 2 weeks of huge concerts they talkabout all the time.
I guess in indiana we have tons of LS cars so it's easy to find a junkyard selling engine/trans together from 1 car.
I'm in stl for school right now. depending where you are in wisconsin i was just up your way for my tuning (or lack of tuning).
I'll be up there around 4th of july in milwakee with some classmates for the huge concert thing they do. Can't remember the name. 2 weeks of huge concerts they talkabout all the time.
You mean Summerfest! I live close to there!I might have my car close to done by then so maybe we will have to meet up when you come to Milwaukee.
04-14-2010, 05:09 AM
#130
New Member
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: terre haute, IN; STL, MO
Posts: 6,457
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
6 Posts
i relay don't feel like tearing this engine apart again. i'm burnt out. I just want to drive this car again.
and for sure i want to see your car when i come up. I'll bring mine up too.
04-26-2010, 05:35 AM
#134
Almost....
Actually wasn't that hard. Basically just takes some patience with a dremel and a sander. I used a hand held 1" wide belt sander to make short work of the modifications to the white plastic piece inside.
Process was:
-Modify white plastic piece that covers the curcuit board so that the tach sits as deep as possible and the wires for the tach sit nicely (significant material removal)
-Cut out the center rpm portion of the gauge face so the tach can sit deeper (use a scissors)
-Modify the center black bezel so that gauge fits snuggly through the stock opening (minor sanding)
-Modify the front silver bezel so it sits against the tach properly (minor sanding but takes a bit for a good fit)
-Drill two holes in the clear piece so you can adjust the settings on the gauge (super quick)
Honestly the gauge fits about perfect and you don't actually attach the gauge to anything if you take your time and make it a perfect fit. I put a couple small dabs of super glue around the outside of the tach and the black bezel for safety. I would rate this install at a beginner skill level. The hardest part is being willing to start sanding expensive OEM parts. If you can get past that it isn't a problem.
Actually wasn't that hard. Basically just takes some patience with a dremel and a sander. I used a hand held 1" wide belt sander to make short work of the modifications to the white plastic piece inside.
Process was:
-Modify white plastic piece that covers the curcuit board so that the tach sits as deep as possible and the wires for the tach sit nicely (significant material removal)
-Cut out the center rpm portion of the gauge face so the tach can sit deeper (use a scissors)
-Modify the center black bezel so that gauge fits snuggly through the stock opening (minor sanding)
-Modify the front silver bezel so it sits against the tach properly (minor sanding but takes a bit for a good fit)
-Drill two holes in the clear piece so you can adjust the settings on the gauge (super quick)
Honestly the gauge fits about perfect and you don't actually attach the gauge to anything if you take your time and make it a perfect fit. I put a couple small dabs of super glue around the outside of the tach and the black bezel for safety. I would rate this install at a beginner skill level. The hardest part is being willing to start sanding expensive OEM parts. If you can get past that it isn't a problem.
Last edited by Quamen; 04-26-2010 at 05:36 AM.
Like I said. It look good.
04-26-2010, 04:18 PM
#136
There has been other guys that’s been PM-ing me about the cost of this swap and other details. I don't mind sharing the knowledge but I just don't feel right not explaining everything about this type of swap. I think some people really think that this is some sorta simple swap where you just toss in a V8 motor and call it "DONE" without thinking of every aspect of this kind of build and what to expect after. THIS BUILD IS NOT FOR EVERYONE.
I mean if you're just looking to make "more power" then that can be done from a VQ for far cheaper and less sacrifices and headaches. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a very cool build but it has its tradeoffs too. I would personally feel really bad for that guy who completely thrashes his perfectly working Z in an attempt to do this swap only to be disappointed with the results versus the money spent or even worse, not have enough funds to complete the project in the first place.
This is NOT a simple engine swap people. This IS a complete rebuild of the entire car. This build involves upgrading the brake and suspension to deal with the added weight of the LS engine. The fuel system has to be upgraded and modified to supply enough fuel for a V8 versus the VQ V6. Then there’s the Nissan electrical and wiring nightmare that will be all but rewired from scratch by the time everything is said and done.
You like A/C or need it because you live in an area where it’s a requirement rather than a luxury? Sucks to be you then. NO A/C. In fact if you live in an area like that you really need to consider upgrading your cooling system with this swap as well.
Any maintenance that requires access to the front of the V8 block like changing belts, replacing or upgrading water and oil pumps, or swapping a CAM later will require removal the entire front end and core support to get access to these things due to lack of space. Swapping clutch or flywheel will require “almost” a complete removal of the engine and trans together if you wait to do it after the initial install. All this cost BIG Money and the only way to save any of it is to do all the work yourself which I’ve pretty sure most people shouldn’t even try attempting.
Cost versus return??? Don’t expect any return on your “investment” at all. Ya see something is only worth what another person is willing to pay for it and not what you think/hope it’s worth to you.
You won’t be able to trade it in for another car because you’ll only get wholesale value or less. Selling it outright as a private seller will be hard to do because this type of engine swap may not even be legal in some areas which means you'll have to sell it as "off road use only". Generally the motor shouldn’t be older than the car it’s sitting in. Gen III LS motors ended in what year again? Hmmmm…
Then there’s the fact that any potential buyer with any bit of sanity and half a brain would probably rather just buy a vette for the same amount of money that’ll you’ll have invested (once everything is said and done) or less and not have to deal with the issues of getting it passed inspections, emissions, and getting it re-titled. They (potential buyer) will also not have to deal with as many future maintenance if they buy the Vette. The Vette was a purpose built car for LS engine and no matter how good your LSX swap 350Z turns out it’s NOT going to be as good or perform as well as a Vette with the same amount of money invested.
Here is a good way to think about the "cost versus return" of performing this swap. Take about $20+ thousand dollars in cash and run it all through an industrial paper shredder (the types that turns paper into dust confetti) and then you’ll have an idea what you "cost versus return" will be in the end. Old saying goes, “If you have to ask, then you can’t afford it.” In the end what is it really worth to you?
BTW found this on e-bay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-...item4ceefe079b
I mean if you're just looking to make "more power" then that can be done from a VQ for far cheaper and less sacrifices and headaches. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a very cool build but it has its tradeoffs too. I would personally feel really bad for that guy who completely thrashes his perfectly working Z in an attempt to do this swap only to be disappointed with the results versus the money spent or even worse, not have enough funds to complete the project in the first place.
This is NOT a simple engine swap people. This IS a complete rebuild of the entire car. This build involves upgrading the brake and suspension to deal with the added weight of the LS engine. The fuel system has to be upgraded and modified to supply enough fuel for a V8 versus the VQ V6. Then there’s the Nissan electrical and wiring nightmare that will be all but rewired from scratch by the time everything is said and done.
You like A/C or need it because you live in an area where it’s a requirement rather than a luxury? Sucks to be you then. NO A/C. In fact if you live in an area like that you really need to consider upgrading your cooling system with this swap as well.
Any maintenance that requires access to the front of the V8 block like changing belts, replacing or upgrading water and oil pumps, or swapping a CAM later will require removal the entire front end and core support to get access to these things due to lack of space. Swapping clutch or flywheel will require “almost” a complete removal of the engine and trans together if you wait to do it after the initial install. All this cost BIG Money and the only way to save any of it is to do all the work yourself which I’ve pretty sure most people shouldn’t even try attempting.
Cost versus return??? Don’t expect any return on your “investment” at all. Ya see something is only worth what another person is willing to pay for it and not what you think/hope it’s worth to you.
You won’t be able to trade it in for another car because you’ll only get wholesale value or less. Selling it outright as a private seller will be hard to do because this type of engine swap may not even be legal in some areas which means you'll have to sell it as "off road use only". Generally the motor shouldn’t be older than the car it’s sitting in. Gen III LS motors ended in what year again? Hmmmm…
Then there’s the fact that any potential buyer with any bit of sanity and half a brain would probably rather just buy a vette for the same amount of money that’ll you’ll have invested (once everything is said and done) or less and not have to deal with the issues of getting it passed inspections, emissions, and getting it re-titled. They (potential buyer) will also not have to deal with as many future maintenance if they buy the Vette. The Vette was a purpose built car for LS engine and no matter how good your LSX swap 350Z turns out it’s NOT going to be as good or perform as well as a Vette with the same amount of money invested.
Here is a good way to think about the "cost versus return" of performing this swap. Take about $20+ thousand dollars in cash and run it all through an industrial paper shredder (the types that turns paper into dust confetti) and then you’ll have an idea what you "cost versus return" will be in the end. Old saying goes, “If you have to ask, then you can’t afford it.” In the end what is it really worth to you?
BTW found this on e-bay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-...item4ceefe079b
Last edited by Havok_RLS2; 04-26-2010 at 08:09 PM.
04-26-2010, 06:57 PM
#137
There has been other guys that’s been PM-ing me about the cost of this swap and other details. I don't mind sharing the knowledge but I just don't feel right not explaining everything about this type of swap. I think some people really think that this is some sorta simple swap where you just toss in a V8 motor and call it "DONE" without thinking of every aspect of this kind of build and what to expect after. THIS BUILD IS NOT FOR EVERYONE.
I mean if you're just looking to make "more power" then that can be done from a VQ for far cheaper and less sacrifices and headaches. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a very cool build but it has its tradeoffs too. I would personally feel really bad for that guy who completely thrashes his perfectly working Z in an attempt to do this swap only to be disappointed with the results versus the money spent or even worse, not have enough funds to complete the project in the first place.
This is NOT a simple engine swap people. This IS a complete rebuild of the entire car. This build involves upgrading the brake and suspension to deal with the added weight of the LS engine. The fuel system has to be upgraded and modified to supply enough fuel for a V8 versus the VQ V6. Then there’s the Nissan electrical and wiring nightmare that will be all but rewired from scratch by the time everything is said and done.
You like A/C or need it because you live in an area where it’s a requirement rather than a luxury? Sucks to be you then. NO A/C. In fact if you live in an area like that you really need to consider upgrading your cooling system with this swap as well.
Any maintenance that requires access to the front of the V8 block like changing belts, replacing or upgrading water and oil pumps, or swapping a CAM later will require removal the entire front end and cord support to get to these things due to lack of space. Swapping clutch or flywheel will require “almost” a complete removal of the engine and trans together if you wait to do it after the initial install. All this cost BIG Money and the only way to save any of it is to do all the work yourself which I’ve pretty sure most people shouldn’t.
Cost versus return??? Don’t expect any return on your “investment” at all. Ya see something is only worth what another person is willing to pay for it and not what you think/hope it’s worth to you.
You won’t be able to trade it in for another car because you’ll only get wholesale value or less. Selling it outright as a private seller will be hard to do because this type of engine swap may not even be legal in some areas which means you'll have to sell it as "off road use only". Generally the motor shouldn’t be older than the car it’s sitting in. Gen III LS motors ended in what year again? Hmmmm…
Then there’s the fact that any potential buyer with any bit of sanity and half a brain would probably rather just buy a vette for the same amount of money that’ll you’ll have invested (once everything is said and done) or less and not have to deal with the issues of getting it passed inspections, emissions, and getting it re-titled. They (potential buyer) will also not have to deal with as many future maintenance if they buy the Vette. The Vette was a purpose built car for LS engine and no matter how good your LSX swap 350Z turns out it’s NOT going to be as good or perform as well as a Vette with the same amount of money invested.
Here is a good way to think about the "cost versus return" of performing this swap. Take about $20+ thousand dollars in cash and run it all through an industrial paper shredder (the types that turns paper into dust confetti) and then you’ll have an idea what you "cost versus return" will be in the end. Old saying goes, “If you have to ask, then you can’t afford it.” In the end what is it really worth to you?
BTW found this on e-bay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-...item4ceefe079b
I mean if you're just looking to make "more power" then that can be done from a VQ for far cheaper and less sacrifices and headaches. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a very cool build but it has its tradeoffs too. I would personally feel really bad for that guy who completely thrashes his perfectly working Z in an attempt to do this swap only to be disappointed with the results versus the money spent or even worse, not have enough funds to complete the project in the first place.
This is NOT a simple engine swap people. This IS a complete rebuild of the entire car. This build involves upgrading the brake and suspension to deal with the added weight of the LS engine. The fuel system has to be upgraded and modified to supply enough fuel for a V8 versus the VQ V6. Then there’s the Nissan electrical and wiring nightmare that will be all but rewired from scratch by the time everything is said and done.
You like A/C or need it because you live in an area where it’s a requirement rather than a luxury? Sucks to be you then. NO A/C. In fact if you live in an area like that you really need to consider upgrading your cooling system with this swap as well.
Any maintenance that requires access to the front of the V8 block like changing belts, replacing or upgrading water and oil pumps, or swapping a CAM later will require removal the entire front end and cord support to get to these things due to lack of space. Swapping clutch or flywheel will require “almost” a complete removal of the engine and trans together if you wait to do it after the initial install. All this cost BIG Money and the only way to save any of it is to do all the work yourself which I’ve pretty sure most people shouldn’t.
Cost versus return??? Don’t expect any return on your “investment” at all. Ya see something is only worth what another person is willing to pay for it and not what you think/hope it’s worth to you.
You won’t be able to trade it in for another car because you’ll only get wholesale value or less. Selling it outright as a private seller will be hard to do because this type of engine swap may not even be legal in some areas which means you'll have to sell it as "off road use only". Generally the motor shouldn’t be older than the car it’s sitting in. Gen III LS motors ended in what year again? Hmmmm…
Then there’s the fact that any potential buyer with any bit of sanity and half a brain would probably rather just buy a vette for the same amount of money that’ll you’ll have invested (once everything is said and done) or less and not have to deal with the issues of getting it passed inspections, emissions, and getting it re-titled. They (potential buyer) will also not have to deal with as many future maintenance if they buy the Vette. The Vette was a purpose built car for LS engine and no matter how good your LSX swap 350Z turns out it’s NOT going to be as good or perform as well as a Vette with the same amount of money invested.
Here is a good way to think about the "cost versus return" of performing this swap. Take about $20+ thousand dollars in cash and run it all through an industrial paper shredder (the types that turns paper into dust confetti) and then you’ll have an idea what you "cost versus return" will be in the end. Old saying goes, “If you have to ask, then you can’t afford it.” In the end what is it really worth to you?
BTW found this on e-bay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-...item4ceefe079b
04-26-2010, 07:01 PM
#138
I ended up using a Canton oil pan for swapping the motor into a older Chevelle and it only took a small amount of modification to make it fit perfect. The block portion of the engine mounts is a unirversal set available for swapping the LS1 into other cars and I am making the portion that goes to the cross member. I should have pictures soon.
04-26-2010, 07:53 PM
#139
I'm getting there. In the middle of a move which is setting me back a bit. The motor and transmission should be mounted very soon though and then it will go quite quickly since I am using a standalone.
I ended up using a Canton oil pan for swapping the motor into a older Chevelle and it only took a small amount of modification to make it fit perfect. The block portion of the engine mounts is a unirversal set available for swapping the LS1 into other cars and I am making the portion that goes to the cross member. I should have pictures soon.
I ended up using a Canton oil pan for swapping the motor into a older Chevelle and it only took a small amount of modification to make it fit perfect. The block portion of the engine mounts is a unirversal set available for swapping the LS1 into other cars and I am making the portion that goes to the cross member. I should have pictures soon.
05-04-2010, 10:04 AM
#140
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is NOT a simple engine swap people. This IS a complete rebuild of the entire car. This build involves upgrading the brake and suspension to deal with the added weight of the LS engine. The fuel system has to be upgraded and modified to supply enough fuel for a V8 versus the VQ V6. Then there’s the Nissan electrical and wiring nightmare that will be all but rewired from scratch by the time everything is said and done.
You like A/C or need it because you live in an area where it’s a requirement rather than a luxury? Sucks to be you then. NO A/C. In fact if you live in an area like that you really need to consider upgrading your cooling system with this swap as well.
Any maintenance that requires access to the front of the V8 block like changing belts, replacing or upgrading water and oil pumps, or swapping a CAM later will require removal the entire front end and core support to get access to these things due to lack of space. Swapping clutch or flywheel will require “almost” a complete removal of the engine and trans together if you wait to do it after the initial install. All this cost BIG Money and the only way to save any of it is to do all the work yourself which I’ve pretty sure most people shouldn’t even try attempting.
Last edited by UCIgrad; 05-04-2010 at 10:10 AM.