The Crawford Package and JWT/LBMS Package Shootout!
11-02-2003, 09:40 AM
#1
The Crawford Package and JWT/LBMS Package Shootout!
The Crawford Package
Performance
256.7 hp / 243.0 tq
Discussion
"[P]lenum, cats, strut bar and headers. The price has been set at $2350. $2150 without the strut bar. Headers alone are $1300." - Doug
This set up also used the Borla TD exhaust which is not included in the Crawford Package or its pricing. Add $630 for this modification and we have a grand total of $2,980. And, was there an intake that's also not included in the package or Crawford's pricing? We don't know.
The JWT/LBMS Package
Performance
255.3 hp / 243.2 tq
Discussion
"JWT Popcharger, LBMS testpipes w/resonator, Borla TD exhaust. The cost was $1,220. You don't have to lose handling by removing your strut brace. And you can get more power by adding some headers." - Dan
Conclusion
Okay, let's make this a positive post instead of a negative post.
It's $2,980 vs $1,220 for the same horsepower and torque. For those of you that want to spend less than half the price, and have room to add more hp/tq with headers, go JWT/LBMS! Or, another way to look at it, you can get the same hp and tq of the Crawford Package with the JWT/LBMS package for less than the price of Crawford's headers!
Performance
256.7 hp / 243.0 tq
Discussion
"[P]lenum, cats, strut bar and headers. The price has been set at $2350. $2150 without the strut bar. Headers alone are $1300." - Doug
This set up also used the Borla TD exhaust which is not included in the Crawford Package or its pricing. Add $630 for this modification and we have a grand total of $2,980. And, was there an intake that's also not included in the package or Crawford's pricing? We don't know.
The JWT/LBMS Package
Performance
255.3 hp / 243.2 tq
Discussion
"JWT Popcharger, LBMS testpipes w/resonator, Borla TD exhaust. The cost was $1,220. You don't have to lose handling by removing your strut brace. And you can get more power by adding some headers." - Dan
Conclusion
Okay, let's make this a positive post instead of a negative post.
It's $2,980 vs $1,220 for the same horsepower and torque. For those of you that want to spend less than half the price, and have room to add more hp/tq with headers, go JWT/LBMS! Or, another way to look at it, you can get the same hp and tq of the Crawford Package with the JWT/LBMS package for less than the price of Crawford's headers!
11-02-2003, 10:00 AM
#2
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ok all I have to say is you cant add like that if you want to put this kinda stuff up you have to show what HP and TQ over stock the cars gained especially because we have seen stock dynos from 220's through high 240's using your logic why wouldnt you just go get a z the dynos 245 stock and add an exhaust
-non
-non
11-02-2003, 10:07 AM
#3
Originally posted by nonmature
ok all I have to say is you cant add like that if you want to put this kinda stuff up you have to show what HP and TQ over stock the cars gained especially because we have seen stock dynos from 220's through high 240's using your logic why wouldnt you just go get a z the dynos 245 stock and add an exhaust
-non
ok all I have to say is you cant add like that if you want to put this kinda stuff up you have to show what HP and TQ over stock the cars gained especially because we have seen stock dynos from 220's through high 240's using your logic why wouldnt you just go get a z the dynos 245 stock and add an exhaust
-non
11-02-2003, 03:07 PM
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I love posts like this "Zero" Info!! first off how can we make this a positive post if you start it off attacking crawford, everyone who read this is now dumber than before. Lets see Dynos, Pics, Video, and see which is actually better. My money is on the Crawford Z spanking your popcharged Z up and down the street! but what do I know!
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11-02-2003, 04:07 PM
#10
Originally posted by Mike Wazowski
this is not a good comparison
different day
different dyno
different conditions
different cars
this is not a good comparison
different day
different dyno
different conditions
different cars
The only way to properly compare is to use a stock car. Use all the parts of one manufacturer and dyno. Then strip back to stock and use the parts of the other manufacturer and dyno.
Nevertheless, it is a comparison for whatever it's worth. And, until someone cares to really do the above, it is what it is.
11-02-2003, 07:31 PM
#11
Originally posted by LeighJr
I love posts like this "Zero" Info!! first off how can we make this a positive post if you start it off attacking crawford, everyone who read this is now dumber than before. Lets see Dynos, Pics, Video, and see which is actually better. My money is on the Crawford Z spanking your popcharged Z up and down the street! but what do I know!
I love posts like this "Zero" Info!! first off how can we make this a positive post if you start it off attacking crawford, everyone who read this is now dumber than before. Lets see Dynos, Pics, Video, and see which is actually better. My money is on the Crawford Z spanking your popcharged Z up and down the street! but what do I know!
August 2003 is when you signed on. I've never met you. But, if you come to any So. Cal. meet, lets chat about this thread.
11-02-2003, 08:05 PM
#12
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Originally posted by LeighJr
I love posts like this "Zero" Info!! first off how can we make this a positive post if you start it off attacking crawford, everyone who read this is now dumber than before. Lets see Dynos, Pics, Video, and see which is actually better. My money is on the Crawford Z spanking your popcharged Z up and down the street! but what do I know!
I love posts like this "Zero" Info!! first off how can we make this a positive post if you start it off attacking crawford, everyone who read this is now dumber than before. Lets see Dynos, Pics, Video, and see which is actually better. My money is on the Crawford Z spanking your popcharged Z up and down the street! but what do I know!
11-02-2003, 08:15 PM
#13
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hfm:
I want to commend you for accepting others input without turning it into a mud slinging contest. All info is good if you interrupt it for what it is and what it is not.
Your comparison was not perfect but most magazine articles I see published do not do accurate testing themselves. We all need to weigh what is valid data and what is open to being questionable.
Jeff
I want to commend you for accepting others input without turning it into a mud slinging contest. All info is good if you interrupt it for what it is and what it is not.
Your comparison was not perfect but most magazine articles I see published do not do accurate testing themselves. We all need to weigh what is valid data and what is open to being questionable.
Jeff
Last edited by zland; 11-02-2003 at 08:19 PM.
11-02-2003, 09:17 PM
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First off , No excuse for yesterday, I should have made it,
As far as this thread goes, Everyone is gonna believe whatever they want, but too many people just believe what they read and what people tell them, I am by no means and expert on any of this, this is is the first forum I have ever used, and since august 2003, it has become abundantly clear how bad information gets spread around to people , shops ,dealers! (the service rep @ nissan told me I would get 20hp if I changed my oil to mobil 1) , This forum has helped me with every issue I have had with my Z, for that I am thankful, but all those issues or decisions would have been resolved much quicker if we didn't have to weed through bogus info and posts,
The first post in this thread says "Shootout" maybe its just me but that means there is a winner and a loser. I don't see an IMO anywhere in your post, I see your "conclusion" in which you pick a winner and then try to reword the same conclusion in a nicer way.
Who wouldn't want to spend less to get the similar HP & TQ, but without really giving any good info, we are just going to have a bunch of pissed off people that dropped $1220 in hopes to get $2980 in performance (whoever did congrats) . Crawford doesn't need me to defend them but, from a business standpoint I'd be a little angry if it was my company, The only thing positive you typed about Crawford was the HP & TQ #'s everything else was negative i.e. "without the strut bar", "Add $630 ", was there an intake that's also not included in the package or Crawford's pricing? We don't know" , "grand total " . These are what pissed me off.
IMO all you wanted to do by posting this was let everyone know "your" opinion. which is fine, that is why we all are here but, I would have liked to see that in the post to let everyone know thats all it was.
If you would like to talk about this thread more thats fine more than happy to, but maybe I should let someone with the crawford package take over.
Lastly as far as me turning this into this into a mud slinging contest, your 100% right it only turns into a contest if somone throws back, if not someone is just getting mud thrown at them!
As far as this thread goes, Everyone is gonna believe whatever they want, but too many people just believe what they read and what people tell them, I am by no means and expert on any of this, this is is the first forum I have ever used, and since august 2003, it has become abundantly clear how bad information gets spread around to people , shops ,dealers! (the service rep @ nissan told me I would get 20hp if I changed my oil to mobil 1) , This forum has helped me with every issue I have had with my Z, for that I am thankful, but all those issues or decisions would have been resolved much quicker if we didn't have to weed through bogus info and posts,
The first post in this thread says "Shootout" maybe its just me but that means there is a winner and a loser. I don't see an IMO anywhere in your post, I see your "conclusion" in which you pick a winner and then try to reword the same conclusion in a nicer way.
Who wouldn't want to spend less to get the similar HP & TQ, but without really giving any good info, we are just going to have a bunch of pissed off people that dropped $1220 in hopes to get $2980 in performance (whoever did congrats) . Crawford doesn't need me to defend them but, from a business standpoint I'd be a little angry if it was my company, The only thing positive you typed about Crawford was the HP & TQ #'s everything else was negative i.e. "without the strut bar", "Add $630 ", was there an intake that's also not included in the package or Crawford's pricing? We don't know" , "grand total " . These are what pissed me off.
IMO all you wanted to do by posting this was let everyone know "your" opinion. which is fine, that is why we all are here but, I would have liked to see that in the post to let everyone know thats all it was.
If you would like to talk about this thread more thats fine more than happy to, but maybe I should let someone with the crawford package take over.
Lastly as far as me turning this into this into a mud slinging contest, your 100% right it only turns into a contest if somone throws back, if not someone is just getting mud thrown at them!
11-02-2003, 10:44 PM
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Just in case anyone missed the three pages bout this same thing. !! some of the posts look really similar????
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....0&pagenumber=1
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....0&pagenumber=1
11-02-2003, 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by nonmature
ok all I have to say is you cant add like that if you want to put this kinda stuff up you have to show what HP and TQ over stock the cars gained especially because we have seen stock dynos from 220's through high 240's using your logic why wouldnt you just go get a z the dynos 245 stock and add an exhaust
-non
ok all I have to say is you cant add like that if you want to put this kinda stuff up you have to show what HP and TQ over stock the cars gained especially because we have seen stock dynos from 220's through high 240's using your logic why wouldnt you just go get a z the dynos 245 stock and add an exhaust
-non
the day every Z dyno's on the same exact dyno im not comparing dyno numbers...
THat same Z that dynoed stock 240 might dyno the same day at 220 on a different dyno...
11-02-2003, 11:22 PM
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Im looking to make some mods to my car but im noticing alot of variables too..I hope this isnt a dumb one but..
just an observation from all the posts floating around these dynos.........
shouldnt it be noted that not only were they different cars different days but I dont believe the crawfords have a lightened flywheel in their dyno?Wouldnt that account for a few extra HP's in ones reading? On what numbers were posted wouldnt that also skew the numbers since your not comparing apples to apples in a mod missing or added in one but not the other?
That seems to me like it would account for at least a few additional ponies and also the $$ amount to get those extra ponies if costs matter has to be factored in right?
So really what can be said other than is this turning into a whoever spends whatever wins or loses and it shouldnt because then everything done to your car has to be factored in if its any type of performance mod.
This is good info though someone like me needs to know whats worthwhile given the relative newness of the 350z and perf mods for it real verses not worth much.
just an observation from all the posts floating around these dynos.........
shouldnt it be noted that not only were they different cars different days but I dont believe the crawfords have a lightened flywheel in their dyno?Wouldnt that account for a few extra HP's in ones reading? On what numbers were posted wouldnt that also skew the numbers since your not comparing apples to apples in a mod missing or added in one but not the other?
That seems to me like it would account for at least a few additional ponies and also the $$ amount to get those extra ponies if costs matter has to be factored in right?
So really what can be said other than is this turning into a whoever spends whatever wins or loses and it shouldnt because then everything done to your car has to be factored in if its any type of performance mod.
This is good info though someone like me needs to know whats worthwhile given the relative newness of the 350z and perf mods for it real verses not worth much.
11-03-2003, 08:40 AM
#18
Originally posted by zland
hfm:
I want to commend you for accepting others input without turning it into a mud slinging contest. All info is good if you interrupt it for what it is and what it is not.
Jeff
hfm:
I want to commend you for accepting others input without turning it into a mud slinging contest. All info is good if you interrupt it for what it is and what it is not.
Jeff
Originally posted by LeighJr
IMO all you wanted to do by posting this was let everyone know "your" opinion. which is fine, that is why we all are here but, I would have liked to see that in the post to let everyone know thats all it was.
IMO all you wanted to do by posting this was let everyone know "your" opinion. which is fine, that is why we all are here but, I would have liked to see that in the post to let everyone know thats all it was.
Oh, and as for calling the thread a shootout, I only did that because I saw another thread with the same word. It's not a contest by any sense. Just something to read and evaluate as you wish.
Originally posted by ElvishasaZ
shouldnt it be noted that not only were they different cars different days but I dont believe the crawfords have a lightened flywheel in their dyno?Wouldnt that account for a few extra HP's in ones reading?
shouldnt it be noted that not only were they different cars different days but I dont believe the crawfords have a lightened flywheel in their dyno?Wouldnt that account for a few extra HP's in ones reading?
I don't know what is correct, I'll ask my technical expert buddy the next time I run into him at a meet.
For posterity, the flywheel can be purchased for $400-410 dollars and should be included in the above comparison since it appears some horsepower maybe had.
Thanks for everyones comments.
11-03-2003, 09:33 AM
#20
Originally posted by LeighJr
Cool, I'm glad we are all in agreement. about your flywheel where did you buy it and get it installed?
Cool, I'm glad we are all in agreement. about your flywheel where did you buy it and get it installed?